Snow Blower Sizing - Opinions Wanted

[5030]

So mature, thanks for your input.

Glad you can appreciate the humor...

 

[hayden]

I have a bunch more experience on my 84" front mount snow blower now. Previously I was running a 74" rear PTO, rear facing blower. Tractor is a Kubota L5740 with 50HP at the PTO.

Don't underestimate the power required to blow deeper, heavier snow. Said another way, I think you are underestimating the power needed to blow deeper, heavier snow.

I lost some power switching to a hydraulically powered front blower vs the direct drive rear blower, but the difference in power requirements between 74" and 84" is profound. I could really bog down the engine with the 74", and with the 84" I need to move really slowly. HST or a creaper gear is essential. I run in low range, turtle mode, which for those unfamiliar with Kubotas HST drives, that's the lowest range out of 6 ranges, and then I modulate speed with the HST peddle. When I am clearing snow, the engine is at 100% power the entire time, and I control speed to keep the RPMs us enough to throw the snow far enough. The 84" blower really needs 70-90hp to perform well. It works with 50hp, and I REALLY like having the blower in front vs behind, but it's slow.

In light snow, even deep light snow, it's much less of a problem, but wet snow makes a huge difference. And teh first pass is the slowest because that's when you are taking the full width in one bite. Subsequent passes you can take smaller bites and move faster. For deeper snow falls, you really need to get out and do an intermediate pass before accumulations gets too deep.

So to answer your question, I would lean towards the smaller unit, or be sure you have a really low creeper gear.

I also still struggle with the pull behind blowers. Let's say you successfully drive through 10-12" of snow pulling the blower (I hope you have good chains) and the blower actually cleans down to the road surface. Now it's time for the next, overlapping pass. You have one set of wheels up high going through 10-12" of snow, and the other set of wheels on teh previously cleared surface, so the tractor is tipping to one side. I don't know about you, but my 3PH level follows the tractor's level, so the blower woudl be tilted and I don't think clear down to the road surface across the full width. So how does this work with deeper snow, especially snow that packs hard?

 

[shooterdon]

Weinie tractor aside, anything over 18-20" I use my loader to push a trail in and then blow the snow. With that, not having a loader and a pull type blower isn't going to work out very well with large dumps of snow.

I thought about that when I got my pull blower. I figured if there is more than 18" of snow in the forecast, I would go out and blow every 8-9 inches. Not a big deal for me as I am retired and having to blow out twice is no big deal.

If for some reason I had to deal with 18"+ of snow on the ground, I would put the blower 8-9 inches into the snow and come back for a second pass to get to the ground.

That is much better for me than trying to push a large dump of snow somewhere.

The most snow in 24 hours has been about 12" where I live. I suppose people can plan for a 100 year event or buy something that covers 99% of their needs.

 

[Citydude]

I thought about that when I got my pull blower. I figured if there is more than 18" of snow in the forecast, I would go out and blow every 8-9 inches. Not a big deal for me as I am retired and having to blow out twice is no big deal.

If for some reason I had to deal with 18"+ of snow on the ground, I would put the blower 8-9 inches into the snow and come back for a second pass to get to the ground.

That is much better for me than trying to push a large dump of snow somewhere.

The most snow in 24 hours has been about 12" where I live. I suppose people can plan for a 100 year event or buy something that covers 99% of their needs.

I tried keeping the blower up about a foot off the ground with the loader up until I seen the snow pushing up towards the radiator. Lol

 

[Woodstock Walt]

So his tractor is on the heavy side of a
kubota M 7060 not exactly a "weinie"
I will concede the 7060 has quite a bit more power at the PTO

Tractorbynet is mainly geared to CUTs and IIANM started as a predominately Kubota site

There is Always a Bigger tractor out there.

For whatever reason WIFO placed a 40 HP minimum on the blower in question. Maybe it is just a very efficient design due to auger and Fan size.?
All I can say is my 55HP tractor runs this blower just fine.
With 4-6 inches of fresh snow I can run in 4th gear no problem, and the tractor only has 6 gears.
The OP has a 12 speed gear box.

If a person were to get 30 inches of snow and then have it rained on to bring it down to say 24 inches then yes it would be slow going.

SKU	ELL-WIF-WBPT84
Weight	1220.0000
Horsepower Recommended	40 HP Minimum (29.8 KW)
Width - Overall	84" (7 Feet; 213 cm)
Width - Working	84" (7 Feet; 213 cm)

That's very interesting. I just found the same statistics as well. So, it appears that the manufacturer's minimum HP rating is actually 40 HP. The dealer that I am using has it listed at 60 HP minimum and that is the statistic that I has based much of this thread upon.

With that being said, sd455dan has convinced me to go with the 84" blower, and I am going pick up the 84" pusher as well. I do realize that the blower may not perform optimally in deep, heavy snow conditions, but I have enough alternative options for snow removal that I'm not worried about it.

I guess a few more details are in order, my road cuts across the side of a mountain for it's entire length, with an uphill slope on one side and a downhill slope on the other. I don't wing snow towards the uphill side as it would eventually build up into the road and I'd have no place to put it besides bucketing it out and over the bank on the downhill side. This means I have to wing all of the snow towards the downhill side of the road, which creates a large heavy bank since it's quite a lot of snow.

The drop off the downhill side is very steep, so I don't get near enough with my 8' FEL plow to wing all of the snow over the bank. This leaves the large heavy bank. If I don't get the snow over the edge, the bank just crowds back into the road with each storm. Consequently, my current procedure is to wing everything to the downhill side with the FEL plow, then pretty much every other storm I swap the bucket on and work diagonally across the road using the bucket to push the banks over the edge. 1 mile of that takes half the day.

If using a snow blower allows me to blow snow over the edge of the downhill side, the process will eliminate my need to push the banks back every other storm, even if it takes longer to initially clear the road compared to plowing. That's the goal that I'm trying to achieve by using a snow blower. If we get a storm too big for the blower to handle, I can go back to doing it the old way without much hassle. Just looking for a more efficient way to handle our typical weekly storm of +/-6". Based on what I've read here, I think the 84" would fit this niche well enough.

 

[Woodstock Walt]

So to answer your question, I would lean towards the smaller unit, or be sure you have a really low creeper gear.

I also still struggle with the pull behind blowers. Let's say you successfully drive through 10-12" of snow pulling the blower (I hope you have good chains) and the blower actually cleans down to the road surface. Now it's time for the next, overlapping pass. You have one set of wheels up high going through 10-12" of snow, and the other set of wheels on teh previously cleared surface, so the tractor is tipping to one side. I don't know about you, but my 3PH level follows the tractor's level, so the blower woudl be tilted and I don't think clear down to the road surface across the full width. So how does this work with deeper snow, especially snow that packs hard?

I believe that my gearing is pretty low, but I'm not sure how it compares with other models. Per the chart in my owners manual, L1 (lowest gear) would be .99 MPH at rated engine speed (2300 RPM).

You make a good point with the out-of-level situation while making overlapping passes. I had wondered if that would be a factor. One thing that I actually really like about my tractor is that the 3PH actually does not follow the tractor's level. The lift arms raise under power simultaneously, but when lowered they float independently, allowing the implement to follow the contour of the ground. It's worked well with my box blade, york rake, ect. I think it'd be the same with a blower, allowing it to clear snow level with the road even if the tractor is out of level from riding up on uncleared snow.

 

[Rustyiron]

Walt have you ever thought about a large (84") snow bucket instead of a pusher?
Not sure of the availability or cost comparison. Pushers are amazing for clearing small areas with shapes that don't windrow well, but I assume that your thinking about using a new pusher for handling the banks. A bucket would do the same and be useful in a situation where you needed to carry it a little bit and (my motivation) use it for lighter materials all year long. Mulch, brush/trash, firewood, etc.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

72" snow blower on a 50 hp 40 PTO hp HST New holland tackling hard snow drifts. It hadn't snowed for over two weeks and the weather had warmed to the mid 30s for four days before it started freezing again. Then on the 20th of December the wind started blowing 30-40 mph all night long and was still blowing 20 mph when I was clearing it. There were times when I had to slow down and let the blower clear, but it got through it all.

 

[leonz]

Hi all, I'm hoping to get some opinions and input regarding which size of snow blower would be best for my application.

I'll be using my Mahindra 5155 which is rated at 55 horsepower engine/47 horsepower PTO. It's width is 78" at the rear tires. My bucket is 78" wide, but I'm considering purchasing and using an 84" snow pusher on the FEL.

I'm intending to purchase a WIFO Inverted PTO-driven snow blower, and am torn between the 78" model or the 84" model. The 78" model has a minimum required horsepower rating of 50 HP (unsure if this refers to engine or PTO power), and the 84" requires 60 HP.

I maintain about 1 mile of 16'-wide private road. Our storms range from 3" of light powder to 24"+ of wet, heavy, heart attack snow. Thus far, I've been using an 8' snow plow on the FEL and am tired of chasing windrows, fighting the keep the tractor straight with an angled blade, and pushing banks back.

Questions-
-Would 47 PTO horsepower be enough to turn an 84" blower with decent efficiency?
-Being a pull-type blower, am I better off buying one that matches the width of the tractor (78"), or one slightly wider than the tractor (84")?
-Knowing that the blower may be used in combination with a 84" snow pusher, how would that affect your decision on which size blower?

Any thoughts or input would be appreciated!

You need to visit youtube and watch videos of folks using inverted snow blowers and
the pronovost TRC snow blower. The vanderzon folks use a great number of Kubota M100
mules and inverted snow blowers for thier clearing operations.

www.mjsvanderzon.ca

With hydraulic drive snow blower you have a 4 hose bundle plus the small case drain hose that
are attached with your choice of quick disconnects that stay on the hydraulic power pack out of the way.

A larger hydraulic powerpack will let you run a front mount hydraulic drive snow blower with a
rotating impeller drum without bogging down using the engines rated PTO speed.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

That's very interesting. I just found the same statistics as well. So, it appears that the manufacturer's minimum HP rating is actually 40 HP. The dealer that I am using has it listed at 60 HP minimum and that is the statistic that I has based much of this thread upon.

With that being said, sd455dan has convinced me to go with the 84" blower, and I am going pick up the 84" pusher as well. I do realize that the blower may not perform optimally in deep, heavy snow conditions, but I have enough alternative options for snow removal that I'm not worried about it.

I guess a few more details are in order, my road cuts across the side of a mountain for it's entire length, with an uphill slope on one side and a downhill slope on the other. I don't wing snow towards the uphill side as it would eventually build up into the road and I'd have no place to put it besides bucketing it out and over the bank on the downhill side. This means I have to wing all of the snow towards the downhill side of the road, which creates a large heavy bank since it's quite a lot of snow.

The drop off the downhill side is very steep, so I don't get near enough with my 8' FEL plow to wing all of the snow over the bank. This leaves the large heavy bank. If I don't get the snow over the edge, the bank just crowds back into the road with each storm. Consequently, my current procedure is to wing everything to the downhill side with the FEL plow, then pretty much every other storm I swap the bucket on and work diagonally across the road using the bucket to push the banks over the edge. 1 mile of that takes half the day.

If using a snow blower allows me to blow snow over the edge of the downhill side, the process will eliminate my need to push the banks back every other storm, even if it takes longer to initially clear the road compared to plowing. That's the goal that I'm trying to achieve by using a snow blower. If we get a storm too big for the blower to handle, I can go back to doing it the old way without much hassle. Just looking for a more efficient way to handle our typical weekly storm of +/-6". Based on what I've read here, I think the 84" would fit this niche well enough.

What you plan is with the snow blower is what I had started doing with my snow. Plowing left berms on each side and after a series of above freezing days the berms were hard and pretty much immovable. When the snow is light enough I use my front mounted plow and plow from the edge both directions and I can then blow it all 30 feet away. Ideally, I can face forward and drive by mirror.

 

[Woodstock Walt]

Walt have you ever thought about a large (84") snow bucket instead of a pusher?
Not sure of the availability or cost comparison. Pushers are amazing for clearing small areas with shapes that don't windrow well, but I assume that your thinking about using a new pusher for handling the banks. A bucket would do the same and be useful in a situation where you needed to carry it a little bit and (my motivation) use it for lighter materials all year long. Mulch, brush/trash, firewood, etc.

I hadn't, but that is a good suggestion! However, I should've clarified this point as well, but my intention for the snow pusher is actually just to clear around my house and outbuildings where their proximity to each other makes snow blowing impractical. Just tight, short runs where the box design of a snow pusher would make short work of them compared to the 8' FEL plow with its windrows.

For pushing the banks back, if/when I need to do so, I'll likely use my regular 78" bucket. The frozen banks can become pretty stiff, and the bucket's tooth bar does a decent job breaking them up and pushing them over the bank. A snow bucket would be practical for this among other chores, but for the money I'd rather get the pusher for it's specific job then use the regular bucket for the banks.

 

[airbiscuit]

It sounds like you understand your needs, challenges and limitations and have put together a sound plan.

 

[Woodstock Walt]

It sounds like you understand your needs, challenges and limitations and have put together a sound plan.

Thank you airbiscuit!

 

[leonz]

This is a video of a Pronovost TRC80 with the rotating impeller drum
clearing deep snowbanks with a Massey Ferguson 1648 tractor.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzjtZoLT_x4


The second one is a large new Holland tractor with a TRC snow blower.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjw4H1XiSvY



The third video is the same Massey Ferguson 1648 tractor
with the TRC80 snow blower clearing out a huge snow bank.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H9KTOiiSxE

 

[shooterdon]

72" snow blower on a 50 hp 40 PTO hp HST New holland tackling hard snow drifts. It hadn't snowed for over two weeks and the weather had warmed to the mid 30s for four days before it started freezing again. Then on the 20th of December the wind started blowing 30-40 mph all night long and was still blowing 20 mph when I was clearing it. There were times when I had to slow down and let the blower clear, but it got through it all.

I would have just driven over that snow and blown it out. No need to windrow snow that deep.

I used to mount my rear blade on the FEL using an adapter to windrow light snow falls to the center and then blow out the windrow. Realized if there is less than 4” of snow there is no need to clear the driveway. We have 4WD pickups.

KISS.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

I would have just driven over that snow and blown it out. No need to windrow snow that deep.

I used to mount my rear blade on the FEL using an adapter to windrow light snow falls to the center and then blow out the windrow. Realized if there is less than 4” of snow there is no need to clear the driveway. We have 4WD pickups.

KISS.

I windrow it so that it is away from the edge. My 72 year old body doesn't like twisting around so that I can do precision snow blower work near the edges. The windrow centers it and I can back up using the mirrors. I clear out 4" of snow even though all my vehicles are 4WD. UPS and FedEx don't have 4WD and my road isn't flat.

 

[sd455dan]

That's very interesting. I just found the same statistics as well. So, it appears that the manufacturer's minimum HP rating is actually 40 HP. The dealer that I am using has it listed at 60 HP minimum and that is the statistic that I has based much of this thread upon.

With that being said, sd455dan has convinced me to go with the 84" blower, and I am going pick up the 84" pusher as well. I do realize that the blower may not perform optimally in deep, heavy snow conditions, but I have enough alternative options for snow removal that I'm not worried about it.

I guess a few more details are in order, my road cuts across the side of a mountain for it's entire length, with an uphill slope on one side and a downhill slope on the other. I don't wing snow towards the uphill side as it would eventually build up into the road and I'd have no place to put it besides bucketing it out and over the bank on the downhill side. This means I have to wing all of the snow towards the downhill side of the road, which creates a large heavy bank since it's quite a lot of snow.

The drop off the downhill side is very steep, so I don't get near enough with my 8' FEL plow to wing all of the snow over the bank. This leaves the large heavy bank. If I don't get the snow over the edge, the bank just crowds back into the road with each storm. Consequently, my current procedure is to wing everything to the downhill side with the FEL plow, then pretty much every other storm I swap the bucket on and work diagonally across the road using the bucket to push the banks over the edge. 1 mile of that takes half the day.

If using a snow blower allows me to blow snow over the edge of the downhill side, the process will eliminate my need to push the banks back every other storm, even if it takes longer to initially clear the road compared to plowing. That's the goal that I'm trying to achieve by using a snow blower. If we get a storm too big for the blower to handle, I can go back to doing it the old way without much hassle. Just looking for a more efficient way to handle our typical weekly storm of +/-6". Based on what I've read here, I think the 84" would fit this niche well enough.

Good info, I hope this Blower really works well for you as it is doing for me.

Looked up my gear speeds for my tractor and as I posted- light, fresh snow up to around 4" to a bit more was tackled in 4th gear.

Heavier, wetter, and or deeper required the lower gears.
In fourth with that amount of snow input is all the tractor wanted. Basically "full power" to use that high of gear.

What I found amazing about the WIFO is it was able to stay ahead of the snow loading.

I could not over stuff it. Never really went around the sides or over the 35" tall back panel.
Obviously you can hit a point where the forward speed needs to be reduced because the PTO load exceeds the engines ability to maintain RPM.
Did look up the torque curve and extrapolating it, virtually dead flat at ~150 lb ft from 950 to 1600 RPM on my 495 A
I really think this is why it is able to run this blower without a problem.

Here are the gearing speeds on my machine

1st @2000RPM 2.13km/h~ 1.32 MPH
2nd " 3.52km/h~ 2.19 MPH
3rd " 6.67km/h~ 4.14MPH
4th " 8.54km/h~ 5.3 MPH

A bit slower since I run it closer to 1600 RPM

One other thing I tried with my set up that it did not like was using the bucket to plane more than a 1/3 of the depth off of the 20 inches +.

My tractor /blower did Not work great this way, it would pile up "to much" snow in front of the bucket and slow to a stop. Works if doing say 20-30 foot runs and blowing to the ground in sections but not to just keep going and not stop and bucket.

But lifting the bucket completely out of the 20 + inches of snow and just gearing down it would just keep going all be it slowly. The Tall front and rear AG R1 Tires are also key. Which your tractor has from the pics. Never got it stuck or used the dif lock. Another feature of the WIFO pull behind is the lower mounting of the 3 point pin points. On my tractor I can lift the blower WAY up in the air so IF you need to drive through 2 feet or more and then bucket it you can without the blower bottom even touching the deep snow.

The 1250 + lbs of weight hanging off of the 3 point does Give Excellent tire loading traction for pushing snow with the FEL.

 

[fishhead]

OP, I think that the 84 blower is the size to get, having a bit extra available on either side is quite handy for doing a nice job and cleanly cutting tall banks. I run a 74in pronovost pull blower on a Jd 3720 (2900lbs bare tractor 35 pto hp 60 inches wide) which is below the recommended 40 by Pronovost. I have done so for years would I like more hp? sure but who wouldn't , really the need for more power shows up when blowing up hill at more than 10 percent grade on my hills. Someone earlier mentioned that probably the op would be limited to a walking speed with 3 inches of new, at that depth my setup with less hp/ft than the proposed clears at 6-7 mph on level road or about double walking speed.
Someone else mentioned not being able to take partial bites:
first thing is any blower should have the lateral float enabled in your 3ph, secondly you can use your loader set at say 12-18 inches up to cut the overall height of a high packed berm or wall to help get the tractor through and prevent excessive lifting- i don't need to do this on fresh snow but I make snow walls on the edge of my drive to prevent the possibility of sliding off and plummeting, sometimes these walls need to be trimmed back or removed and though they are only 4ft at the most usually they are pretty much compacted snow and ice.

I think the op will find the rear pull to be exactly what he is looking for, they are great for long lanes and roads. My drive is about 1 km and with neighbors well over a mile and a quick job really doesn't take too long. It is probably quicker than my rear blade on small snows and I am not leaving piles to deal with, unless I want them. One thing people seldom mention is how in small spaces you can use them like a pull box until you get to where its better to turn the blower on, or you can recycle the snow effectively doing the same thing. I will aim my spout down hard , forward and close to the tractor sometimes which lets me build berms if needed and the partial recycling changes the snow crystals and produces a denser product with perfect edges.

Another advantage is that since the blowing snow is behind and you are driving away from the blower the visibility is better than the options where you drive towards the blower.

As far as depth being an issue, with that size tractor i can't imagine that the op would have an issue driving through 24 inches of snow unless it was elephant snot, maybe. If he has 16 inches of clearance as someone stated that's really only 8" that the tractor has to push its undercarriage through and the area dragging is narrower than the width of the tractor by a good bit. As someone pointed out, 1300 lbs of blower is a pretty good traction aid, especially with chains. I think that depths where the tractor is starting to have traction issues pulling the blower i would first raise it a tiny bit thus reducing the pulling force required to by eliminating the friction of blower scraping the surface and greatly increasing the traction available by transferring the weight of the blower to the rear wheels.

As i have said multiple times, rear pulls are are something that those who don't have them say can't work and those who do say they are awesome. I have used mine for 9 winters now and I have zero desire to go back to a front blower.

As always, if you have frequent deep drifting or massive storms (multiple ft overnight) they probably aren't for you.

 

[Farmer495]

I run 78" on 64 PTO HP gear drive. Good balance of power and width. I could handle 84/86" but deep snow still wants more power. With 78" I am still clutching on extra deep stuff until I can make part passes. Deep stuff I start out with the blower raised (part of all) and drive until I spin out, the drive ahead and lower to the ground to finish it.

I did run 78" on 40 PTO HP gear drive, the job got done, but much slower.

Lighter snowfalls no issue blowing 4-5 MPH full 78"

 

[Beaver Cove Deere]

You need to visit youtube and watch videos of folks using inverted snow blowers and
the pronovost TRC snow blower. The vanderzon folks use a great number of Kubota M100
mules and inverted snow blowers for thier clearing operations.

www.mjsvanderzon.ca

With hydraulic drive snow blower you have a 4 hose bundle plus the small case drain hose that
are attached with your choice of quick disconnects that stay on the hydraulic power pack out of the way.

A larger hydraulic powerpack will let you run a front mount hydraulic drive snow blower with a
rotating impeller drum without bogging down using the engines rated PTO speed.

You couldn’t pay me enough to have another power pac blower arrangement. One and done. It had next to no balls and all that damn snow dust in front covering the windows of the cab.


I’ll take my inverted Normand every single time. All that dust is behind me.