Haying with a Mahindra 4110. Enough horsepower?

[teuqus]

Hi,

I've got a mahindra 4110 (Engine:41 hp PTO (claimed):33.6 hp). I was told by a local salesman that it wouldn't be powerful enough to cut and bale hay. Is anyone out there haying with a comparable tractor and if so, what equipment are you using? I need to hay about 30-50 acres. Buying a new tractor isn't really an option...

 

[Gee Ray]

What kind of baler do you want? What kind of terrain is the field? What kind of transmission is in your tractor?

The tractor that you have can be used as a hay cutter, operate a tedder and a rake. It is not big enough to run a round baler. It could be used to do square bales with an older New Holland baler or JD baler as they are both require little or low HP. The problem is if your land is hilly the balers can push you around as you descend a hill or you may not be able to pull the hills.

If you check out the internet you can find "power fore carts" that you could mount a stand alone engine to power the baler. Look for Amish baling hay as this is their solution to powering a round baler.

Here is a video using a 25 hp Kubota with 19 HP at the PTO.

I did thousands of bales with a MF 1528 HST 28 HP and a NH 273 baler.

 

[Willman]

You would fine with a small square baler
Years ago on my dad’s farm we used a ford 8N hooked to a NH square baler for many years

 

[oldnslo]

We used a 520 JD for years on Ford small square baler and pulled hay wagon behind on 99% of our fields. Also used our JD 420 when not pulling hay rack. Never had power concerns just use your head if on hills. 9 ft haybine might make it work.

 

[5030]

Heck, way back when, I used a 49 Farmall A wide front and ran a sickle bar mower and an ancient New Holland 66 square bailer as well as a pull type New Holland side delivery rake. It did fine. Only issue was the square bailer threw me around a bit as the plunger cycled.

Horsepower isn't a factor with a square bailer because it has a large flywheel that keeps the motion going. You won't be pulling a hay rack behind the baler however. Sickle bar mowers take very little power and a pull behind side delivery rake can be pulled with an average quad even.

 

[Willman]

Heck, way back when, I used a 49 Farmall A wide front and ran a sickle bar mower and an ancient New Holland 66 square bailer as well as a pull type New Holland side delivery rake. It did fine. Only issue was the square bailer threw me around a bit as the plunger cycled.

Horsepower isn't a factor with a square bailer because it has a large flywheel that keeps the motion going. You won't be pulling a hay rack behind the baler however. Sickle bar mowers take very little power and a pull behind side delivery rake can be pulled with an average quad even.

Yes our 8N rocked back and forth with the baler stroking, we did not pull a wagon, just dropped bales in the field

 

[5030]

Understand, if you want to round bale, the game changes appreciably. You need a pretty substantial tractor to run a round baler, I think (could be wrong) but the minimum power requirements for a typical New Holland round baler equipped with infeed discs is 40 pto horses and the tractor has to weigh a good bit or the round baler will drive you.

My new Kubota round baler I just purchased the minimum required pto power is 60 to roll a 4x5 round bale and wrap it.

Square bailing is certainly well within the capabilities of your tractor.

 

[5030]

we did not pull a wagon, just dropped bales in the field

Neither did I actually. The last small square baler I owned (and sold 2 years ago), a New Holland 565 high capacity would rock my M9000 cab tractor especially in a turn, as the plunger cycled. Lot of mass moving back and forth inside the bale chamber.

 

[teuqus]

Square bales are fine.

What kind of baler do you want? What kind of terrain is the field? What kind of transmission is in your tractor?

The tractor that you have can be used as a hay cutter, operate a tedder and a rake. It is not big enough to run a round baler. It could be used to do square bales with an older New Holland baler or JD baler as they are both require little or low HP. The problem is if your land is hilly the balers can push you around as you descend a hill or you may not be able to pull the hills.

If you check out the internet you can find "power fore carts" that you could mount a stand alone engine to power the baler. Look for Amish baling hay as this is their solution to powering a round baler.

Here is a video using a 25 hp Kubota with 19 HP at the PTO.

I did thousands of bales with a MF 1528 HST 28 HP and a NH 273 baler.

To answer your questions:

It’s a synchromesh 12 speed transmission.

The terrain is a combination of flat and a gentle slope.

Square bales are fine.

I understand the hesitation with bailing especially round bales, but what about cutting? What should I be looking for in a mower?

Pardon my ignorance but haying is new to me.

 

[5030]

Sickle bar hay bine with conditioning rolls or a side mount sickle bar. Lots of older NH and JD MoCo's on Tractor House for sale. You don't have enough pto power for pull type disc mower with conditioning rolls and you would need at least 2 sets of remotes as well. One set for the table and one set for the tongue swing. ASC sells a nice side mount disc machine that goes on a 3ph but has no conditioning rolls. They also sell a nice tedder and rotary rake. For low pto power, a side delivery is nice like I said but you have enough pto power to run a single head rotary rake as well.

I prefer a rotary myself. I have a Kuhn 2 head Masterdrive rotary but they aren't cheap.

 

[Gee Ray]

I assume you are on limited funds since you said a new tractor is out of bounds.

You do not say what part of the country you are located in so I will address this as if you are in the middle of the country.

This buying guide will help you.

Buyer's Guide | Tractor Tools Direct | Small Farm Equipment

As the largest e-commerce, small farm equipment company of its kind, Tractor Tools Direct is proud to offer an information-packed website. This Buyer’s Guide will take you through the step-by-step process of selecting the perfect equipment for your small farm’s needs.

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A sickle bar mower has a lower power requirement. They cut acres of hay with them. Price is going to very due mostly on condition. We had a 7 foot mower on a Cockshutt 30 tractor. It mowed nicely.


You can buy a low HP required drum rotary mower that has cutters mounted oh upside down mushroom heads. You can find them to match your HP. They are heavy and when you pick up the cutter heads it may cause the tractor to tip. I had a 2 head cutter on the MF 1528 and ended up with a double set of wheel weights on it to counter the weight of the cutter bar.

Find yourself a good tedder. The wider the quicker you can cover your fields. They are very low HP. I used a 2 basket tedder on the MF 1528 and did not know it was back there.

Any type of rake will be ok behind your tractor as long as you do not go to wide. A 4 wheel rake will cover 8 feet or so.

Look for an older square baler that is in good shape. The newer square balers require a little more HP then what you have in your tractor.

Labor to pick up square bales is going to be a problem. Few people are willing to do that kind of work. There are different types of accumulators and the related grapples that you can buy but you are looking as some big money.

5030 gave you some good advice but he has 2 much beefer tractors to pull his equipment.

 

[Hay Dude]

Square bales are fine.

To answer your questions:

It’s a synchromesh 12 speed transmission.

The terrain is a combination of flat and a gentle slope.

Square bales are fine.

I understand the hesitation with bailing especially round bales, but what about cutting? What should I be looking for in a mower?

Pardon my ignorance but haying is new to me.

I’d be looking at a small disc mower or a drum mower that runs on low HP. A trailed type would be nice since it doesn‘t hang off or weigh down one side of your tractor.
When I started, I had a small tractor and purchased this self propelled haybine for $4,000. It has an air conditioned cab and simple diesel engine. Great little machine.

All my tractor had to do was ted, rake & bale. I ran 2 small square balers, a JD336 and a NH318. Made 10,000-11,000 square bales per year that way and then began round baling.

If you have a pickup/flatbed truck, you can use that to get hay bales out of fields. Much nicer & faster to use than a small tractor. You can also tedder with a pickup truck as there are plenty of older ground/wheel driven rakes and tedders out there. Pequea makes ground driven tedders. I see them out there for $1,000-$1,500. Ground driven rakes were made long ago. Plenty out there for $1,000. Then you can rake with your truck while the baler is on your tractor. That gets rid of the annoying process of constantly switching implements.

If you have flat/gently sloping ground, you may want to save your money for an old, simple 2WD farm tractor-like an old MF or Ford with a loader and pull a round baler with it. It’ll speed up the process by 5X compared to small squares. Use your smaller tractor for rake/ted.

Believe it or not, knowing your location will help us help you even better.
Great to have another hay baler on board!

 

[5030]

5030 gave you some good advice but he has 2 much beefer tractors to pull his equipment.

I didn't when I started out. Like I said, started with a '49 Farmall A wide front. with a 4 cylinder gas engine. I had to buy a used pull behind sickle bar mower because the Farmall's had an offset PTO.

Rotary rakes and tedders require very little pto power to operate, same with square bailers. The power requirements come with round balers and disc mowers, the bigger (and heavier) the hay tools are, the more power they require.

Having said that, I have a tedder that sits in the barn 99% of the time unused. I've found that using a rotary rake pretty much eliminates any tedding. Rotary rakes 'fluff' up a windrow and allow the air to move through the windrow and that accelerates drying (so long as Mother Nature cooperates), why I prefer a rotary versus a side delivery. Far as wheel rakes go, they don't work here very well with out mostly alfalfa / grass hay and with a wheel rake, tedding after cutting is almost a necessity. I've eliminated that step with the rotary almost entirely. Rotary rakes require little pto power to operate. If I remember correctly, my Kuhn Masterdrive twin rotor requires 20 pto horsepower to operate maximum. I should probably sell the tedder on Tractor House as it just collects dust in the barn.

 

[5030]

I rarely use the pto power available on either of my tractors to the full capacity. Actually the only reason I have them is because they do plow and snow blower duty in the winter time and both those operations are power and weight intensive, especially the snow blower. That blower can really make them bark as in blow smoke...lol

 

[teuqus]

Thank you for the help everyone. A lot to take in, but it is appreciated.

 

[cbg8670]

Then to add to the list ..mini round balers

Mini Round Balers – Hay Balers | Small Farm Innovations

Small Farm Innovations offers a variety of mini round balers and hay equipment. Contact us for more information about our mini round hay balers.

smallfarminnovations.com

 

[IndyIan]

Cutting and raking seems to be easy with not much hp, this is a 9' haybine and I can zip along in mid range as fast as the field allows, with either roughness or volume of hay plugging up the crimper.

Baling is a different story, I could make 5' when it was really to dry to bale, but as the evening went on and the humidity crept up, I got down to about 4' bales was all the tractor could spin in there.... I don't bale anymore, its running the tractor right at max output for too long.

A small square baler seems like the haybine though, not a problem at all, but I've not baled a field with that yet.

 

[Hay Dude]

Cutting and raking seems to be easy with not much hp, this is a 9' haybine and I can zip along in mid range as fast as the field allows, with either roughness or volume of hay plugging up the crimper.
View attachment 760599
Baling is a different story, I could make 5' when it was really to dry to bale, but as the evening went on and the humidity crept up, I got down to about 4' bales was all the tractor could spin in there.... I don't bale anymore, its running the tractor right at max output for too long.
View attachment 760602
A small square baler seems like the haybine though, not a problem at all, but I've not baled a field with that yet.

I notice you leave a pretty high stubble.

 

[5030]

Certainly is... Think I'd drop that head down at least another 2-3 inches. He's leaving a huge amount of forage in the field.

Had the same issue with my long gone Kubota 5030 (my screen name). Bailing wheat straw. It was fine during the heat of the day but as evening came along and the straw retained some moisture (dew), the tractor was struggling to roll a 5 foot bale. Got to the point where I had the throttle wide open to hold 54 pto.

You might want to see if you can buy a set of infeed discs that go in the bale chamber right above the sledge roll. They keep the formed bale from rubbing the side sheets excessively. The friction of the bale on the side sheets is what causes your issue. Where all the power loss is.

 

[5030]

Installing in feed discs reduces the input power to form a 5 foot bale appreciably. Both my sold NH and my new Kubota round baler came with them new but you can buy them aftermarket and install them yourself.