Newbie - need input & help please

[D&D]

If I were you

Any tractor size will work for your needs. There is no perfect size.

However I believe that everyone's needs are unique and there is no perfect tractor size.

condensed without the fluff an opinion, it makes perfect sense. There is not a perfect, one size fits all anything: Cars, trucks, bicycles, lawnmowers, tractors, grills, trash cans or even kitchen cabinets.
One person relies on dealer/mechanic/handyman support, another has tools/equipment/experience to fix anything themselves.

 

[DaBear3428]

the best advice give in this thread IMO is sit on as many as you can, there is also the option to rent one first to do the heavy jobs and then buy one after you have some experience.
I would recommend that you check out the rental options available to you because you will always run into a job that exceeds the capability of whatever you purchase.
Weight == pulling power, HP == speed that you can do things.
for your use i would not rule out the other major manufacturers Mahindra, Kiote, TYM, LS, Yanmar.
parts availability is mostly a non-issue in the days of internet, as long as you are comfortable wrenching on it or have access to someone who is.
a good dealer is nice but the lack of a good dealer can be overcome.
at the end of the day a tractor is a tool and the color of paint will not make it better at anything, all manufacturers have good and bad examples.
for the tasks you listed you can probably maintain your property with a sub-compact, but a compact of ~~30hp would be more comfortable. to get things in shape at first a 7000lb class tractor with ~~50hp would be good but you will not need that to maintain the property later.
This is all IMO and I'm not you Sooooo.

 

[IndyIan]

We're doing about the same stuff, goats, snow removal, clearing old fields. We end up buying some 4x5 round hay bales(storable outside and cheapest/lb) and a 3500-4000lb+ tractor with some weight on the back handles those easily. My tractor can unload the top row on a double stacked hay wagon, which is how a local farmer will deliver round bales.
In short I think ~4000lb HST tractor does almost every chore you'll need, and not be too big to maneuver around. Plus you can run most older small farm attachments like a spreader, tow a small hay wagon, also yank a car out of a snow bank. If you run a rear blade for snow clearing, a cab isn't as necessary IMO, warm clothes are pretty cheap anyways. Mine has also moved a few 100's of yards of dirt with a box blade too, to create level spots, trails, ditches, bikes jumps, etc..
Go see all your local dealers, big, and small. Around me you would likely be buying a Kioti NS, as he's still the best dealer for a new hobby farmer by a mile IMO, but you'll have to find one you like near you. I found all the big farm Ag dealers weren't really interested in selling a 40hp tractor, and just quoted msrp, plus plus plus. I looked at a few private sale used tractors, but its hard to know how "used up" it is until you have some experience.
I like Ag tires, for the grip in mud and on grassy wet slopes, and get them set wide, and the rears loaded with beat juice or something other than calcium chloride.
Here I'm helping my buddy load his trailer up as he bales, no problem lifting to the second row, with a bale on the back its pretty stable. I think its a pretty useful size.

 

[Sportsman762]

Scotty, I was not calling you out and did not notice your post even mentioned weight.

Good Morning Sportsman,

I did mention the weight of my old Massey Ferguson 1040 in a previous post ! I don’t think weight is the most important thing when selecting a tractor but it is a factor ! I would put my tractor with AG tires against any similar rated HP machine on dirt or in the field and it will out pull that machine ! Physics tells me that ! JMO !

I agree weight is a definite factor to consider but not the sole factor. There is another poster who has yet to post in this thread that focuses on it. He has even posted that tractor weight should be the sole criteria when selecting a tractor. I was concerned @RVivian would read it and take it to heart when browsing the forum. If I offended you I am sorry and did not intend to do so. I will try to do better to not offend anyone in the future.

As long as you are comfortable wrenching on it or have access to someone who is. a good dealer is nice but the lack of a good dealer can be overcome.

It can be hard to find someone who is competent on wrenching on tractors. Warranty issues would need to be solved by a dealer. RVivian has indicated that repairs would be outsourced so a good dealer or an independent repair shop would be a must. Also some modern tractors require being hooked up to software that independent repair shops generally have. This is why I encourage folks who are not doing the wrenching themselves to buy the dealer not the tractor. For me I am capable of repairing my own equipment and my nearest Massey dealer is an hour away, so activities such as rebuilding the engine, repacking hydraulic cylinders, replacing the clutch, or hydraulic pump has not been a problem for me, but RVivian is not me.

parts availability is mostly a non-issue in the days of internet,
at the end of the day a tractor is a tool and the color of paint will not make it better at anything,

Parts availability has a propensity to diminish once the manufacture is no longer in the market. The internet helps to find the rare remaining parts, but some are truly non existent. Bison, Hinimoto, Long, Tafe, Satoh, Iseki, Mitsubishi, Belarus, Leland, etc are all good examples of extinct manufactures. Other times you have manufactures absorb each other, how long will TYM offer Kukje (Branson) parts? I am concerned about the non main manufactures I listed before offering parts for their 30 year old machines. This concern is from being in the agricultural parts industry and seeing dealers trying desperately to locate parts for a machine that was in their shop.

I agree that brand does not matter. Most tractors these days are good quality and will last thousands of hours whether Mahindra or John Deere. Its long term who can provide parts to keep them running? The main manufacture's generally do a good job of that, John Deere still offers most parts for a 750 (1981), and New Holland for a Ford 1900 (1979). But parts for a Satoh Beaver (early 80's) are non existant.

There is also the option to rent one first to do the heavy jobs and then buy one after you have some experience.

for the tasks you listed you can probably maintain your property with a sub-compact, but a compact of ~~30hp would be more comfortable. to get things in shape at first a 7000lb class tractor with ~~50hp would be good but you will not need that to maintain the property later.

Excellent advice. Renting larger equipment to knock the property into shape is a great idea that had not yet been mentioned. I also agree with your assessment about how the size requirements go down as the property maintenance is caught up.

This all is opinion based off of my experiences.

 

[DaBear3428]

Scotty, I was not calling you out and did not notice your post even mentioned weight.

I agree weight is a definite factor to consider but not the sole factor. There is another poster who has yet to post in this thread that focuses on it. He has even posted that tractor weight should be the sole criteria when selecting a tractor. I was concerned @RVivian would read it and take it to heart when browsing the forum. If I offended you I am sorry and did not intend to do so. I will try to do better to not offend anyone in the future.



It can be hard to find someone who is competent on wrenching on tractors. Warranty issues would need to be solved by a dealer. RVivian has indicated that repairs would be outsourced so a good dealer or an independent repair shop would be a must. Also some modern tractors require being hooked up to software that independent repair shops generally have. This is why I encourage folks who are not doing the wrenching themselves to buy the dealer not the tractor. For me I am capable of repairing my own equipment and my nearest Massey dealer is an hour away, so activities such as rebuilding the engine, repacking hydraulic cylinders, replacing the clutch, or hydraulic pump has not been a problem for me, but RVivian is not me.


Parts availability has a propensity to diminish once the manufacture is no longer in the market. The internet helps to find the rare remaining parts, but some are truly non existent. Bison, Hinimoto, Long, Tafe, Satoh, Iseki, Mitsubishi, Belarus, Leland, etc are all good examples of extinct manufactures. Other times you have manufactures absorb each other, how long will TYM offer Kukje (Branson) parts? I am concerned about the non main manufactures I listed before offering parts for their 30 year old machines. This concern is from being in the agricultural parts industry and seeing dealers trying desperately to locate parts for a machine that was in their shop.

I agree that brand does not matter. Most tractors these days are good quality and will last thousands of hours whether Mahindra or John Deere. Its long term who can provide parts to keep them running? The main manufacture's generally do a good job of that, John Deere still offers most parts for a 750 (1981), and New Holland for a Ford 1900 (1979). But parts for a Satoh Beaver (early 80's) are non existant.


Excellent advice. Renting larger equipment to knock the property into shape is a great idea that had not yet been mentioned. I also agree with your assessment about how the size requirements go down as the property maintenance is caught up.

This all is opinion based off of my experiences.

we agree more than disagree, one clarification on my part, the comment about the internet and parts applies to major manufacturers and in the above sentence i listed some non-us based manufacturers that this would apply to.
"for your use i would not rule out the other major manufacturers Mahindra, Kiote, TYM, LS, Yanmar."
I agree that a lot of the others would be suspect as to parts down the road but then again some are just rebranded tractors made by other manufacturers and should have good parts availability for a long time LS comes to mind with their rebranded models sold by NH.
as to finding someone competent to wrench on a tractor that comment applies to a lot of dealers. my intention with "finding someone who is comfortable with wrenching" should be read as "competent" which should not be confused with meaning Dealer.

 

[DaBear3428]

We're doing about the same stuff, goats, snow removal, clearing old fields. We end up buying some 4x5 round hay bales(storable outside and cheapest/lb) and a 3500-4000lb+ tractor with some weight on the back handles those easily. My tractor can unload the top row on a double stacked hay wagon, which is how a local farmer will deliver round bales.
In short I think ~4000lb HST tractor does almost every chore you'll need, and not be too big to maneuver around. Plus you can run most older small farm attachments like a spreader, tow a small hay wagon, also yank a car out of a snow bank. If you run a rear blade for snow clearing, a cab isn't as necessary IMO, warm clothes are pretty cheap anyways. Mine has also moved a few 100's of yards of dirt with a box blade too, to create level spots, trails, ditches, bikes jumps, etc..
Go see all your local dealers, big, and small. Around me you would likely be buying a Kioti NS, as he's still the best dealer for a new hobby farmer by a mile IMO, but you'll have to find one you like near you. I found all the big farm Ag dealers weren't really interested in selling a 40hp tractor, and just quoted msrp, plus plus plus. I looked at a few private sale used tractors, but its hard to know how "used up" it is until you have some experience.
I like Ag tires, for the grip in mud and on grassy wet slopes, and get them set wide, and the rears loaded with beat juice or something other than calcium chloride.
Here I'm helping my buddy load his trailer up as he bales, no problem lifting to the second row, with a bale on the back its pretty stable. I think its a pretty useful size.
View attachment 1412600

you make an important point, a big Agg equipment dealer may not be the best place to buy a hobby farm tractor and if I run into an organization that i do not like the way they treat my purchase i would immediately walk because the service will not get better after the sale.

 

[arrow]

Scotty, I was not calling you out and did not notice your post even mentioned weight.

I agree weight is a definite factor to consider but not the sole factor. There is another poster who has yet to post in this thread that focuses on it. He has even posted that tractor weight should be the sole criteria when selecting a tractor. I was concerned @RVivian would read it and take it to heart when browsing the forum. If I offended you I am sorry and did not intend to do so. I will try to do better to not offend anyone in the future.



It can be hard to find someone who is competent on wrenching on tractors. Warranty issues would need to be solved by a dealer. RVivian has indicated that repairs would be outsourced so a good dealer or an independent repair shop would be a must. Also some modern tractors require being hooked up to software that independent repair shops generally have. This is why I encourage folks who are not doing the wrenching themselves to buy the dealer not the tractor. For me I am capable of repairing my own equipment and my nearest Massey dealer is an hour away, so activities such as rebuilding the engine, repacking hydraulic cylinders, replacing the clutch, or hydraulic pump has not been a problem for me, but RVivian is not me.


Parts availability has a propensity to diminish once the manufacture is no longer in the market. The internet helps to find the rare remaining parts, but some are truly non existent. Bison, Hinimoto, Long, Tafe, Satoh, Iseki, Mitsubishi, Belarus, Leland, etc are all good examples of extinct manufactures. Other times you have manufactures absorb each other, how long will TYM offer Kukje (Branson) parts? I am concerned about the non main manufactures I listed before offering parts for their 30 year old machines. This concern is from being in the agricultural parts industry and seeing dealers trying desperately to locate parts for a machine that was in their shop.

I agree that brand does not matter. Most tractors these days are good quality and will last thousands of hours whether Mahindra or John Deere. Its long term who can provide parts to keep them running? The main manufacture's generally do a good job of that, John Deere still offers most parts for a 750 (1981), and New Holland for a Ford 1900 (1979). But parts for a Satoh Beaver (early 80's) are non existant.


Excellent advice. Renting larger equipment to knock the property into shape is a great idea that had not yet been mentioned. I also agree with your assessment about how the size requirements go down as the property maintenance is caught up.

This all is opinion based off of my experiences.

There are things you mention that l cannot agree with. First, the reason l traded in my JD 750 was that parts were getting very hard to come by and that was 12 years ago. This was a Yanmar constructed machine. Parts were easier to get for American made jd’s that were 30 years older.
Secondly, a tractor with 14 hp that weighs 4000 lbs will outwork any tractor with 38 hp that weighs 2000 lbs for grunt work mentioned. Weight is a most critical factor here and its importance should not be mitigated in any fashion.
This family needs at least a 4000 lb tractor along with a fel good for at least 1500 lb lift.
This tractor will start bare at 2500 lbs. Loader and loaded tires will begin to approach 4000 lbs.

I disagree as well with your premise that this should be a hydrostatic machine. A tractor of the size mentioned by me, is most efficient with a shuttle. Shuttles are so easy to operate, they become like breathing. For everything l’ve operated at the store, l would not consider a hydrostatic if under 35 hp.

I feel matching a machine to initial land management is a lesson in futility. You match a tractor to daily or weekly chores. What good is downsizing after you tilled an acre of land if you need to lift hay bales constantly?

There are things you mention l can agree with the most of which is buying the dealer and not the brand.
Also, we agree on fitment experience. Sit on a lot of these things to begin to get a feel. Drive them around the lot and go to the closest dealer first.

The largest part of my job selling these things is to ask the customer questions and then listen to the
answers.

 

[arrow]

condensed without the fluff an opinion, it makes perfect sense. There is not a perfect, one size fits all anything: Cars, trucks, bicycles, lawnmowers, tractors, grills, trash cans or even kitchen cabinets.
One person relies on dealer/mechanic/handyman support, another has tools/equipment/experience to fix anything themselves.

No perfect tractor in generalities only.
Conversation with the potential buyer begins to formulate choices that are more perfect than not for said buyer. That’s what a good salesman does first.
It’s like saying “everyone is equal”. In certain aspects we most certainly are. In other aspects, we’re so not.

 

[D&D]

No perfect tractor in generalities only.

I don’t quite understand this comment.

 

[Sportsman762]

I have a strong dislike of hydrostatic transmissions.

I disagree as well with your premise that this should be a hydrostatic machine. A tractor of the size mentioned by me, is most efficient with a shuttle. Shuttles are so easy to operate, they become like breathing. For everything l’ve operated at the store, l would not consider a hydrostatic if under 35 hp.

In the hills we have around here Hydrostats suck power causing you to have to choose a lower range than you would have otherwise. The need to set a cruise control or keep your foot on the pedal is a compromise. They are very inconsistent for ground speed, making spreading, spraying and other speed sensitive chores a challenge. I am a fan of powershift transmissions. They are very nice and easy to use, put full power to the ground maintain a more consistent speed and make shifting on hills easy. Doing ground engaging work such as plowing or discing really makes a geared tractor shine. If I were in the market for a compact tractor I would absolutely go with a Kubota GST or an older Case CVT. My Massey is geared with a shuttle. It will go up hills better than my friends Kubota L6060 60 hp hydrostat despite being only 45HP and weighing twice the L6060. Most of my friends that grew up on farms share a similar disdane for hydrostatic transmissions for the reason I mention above.

However my experience is that hydrostat is easier to learn. In college we had geared and HST (Hydrostatic transmissions) on the tractors. The new students had a much easier time driving hydrostatic tractors as they only had to learn how to run the loader since the pedals or tredle is intuitive and requires 0 skill. The learning curve on a hydrostat is much shallower making efficient operation quicker to achieve with most operators. I have friends that I taught how to drive tractors, two of them struggled with my geared tractor due to the transmission. Both can drive stick shift cars so they understand the basics. Both now own hydrostatic tractors that they are efficient with due to the shorter learning curve. When they run my geared tractor they still struggle.
This is my experience with hydrostats and folks new to tractor operation, as well as my desire to never own a HST tractor (I do really want a Verstile 276 or Ford 9030 despite being HST).

 

[Williy]

With a hydro tranny most try to push the pedel to the floor
going up hill causing you to slow down wrong way

willy

 

[redman135]

Some food for thought.
Instead of doing the break in of the overgrown pastures etc, hire a contractor, with thier big gear you will be surprised at the bang for buck that you get. The EFFECT of this is you can get a smaller tractor to do your regular chores.
This should stretch the budget.

Manufacturers generally have a budget tractor and a primium tractor in the same size/power but different price.
Tyres: use agriculture tyres, not industrial (default tyre in your size tractor).
Rims: ag rims are 2 piece so they can be ahjusted wider for stability. Industrial tyres come on 1 piece rims, and can't be adjusted.

Hydraulics: Generally recommended to get 3rd service on loader as it is pricey to retro fit. Also good future proofing.
Rear hydraulics: minimum of 2 pairs.


Budget vs primium models: usually shows in 3 places. transmisssion. hydraulic pump capasity and tyres.

Budget trans = 2 speed hydro trans, primium = 3 speed hydro trans.

Hydraulic pump: budget = low output (slowish performance) and primium = higher output making the loader quicker and better performing.

Tyres: budget = narrow primium = wide

Loader: be aware that some loaders capasity is measured at the bucket pins (is a real world disapoinment). While others are measured at a point about a foot in front of the bucket pins (accurate real world lift) This is why some tractors will have a higher lift compared to others.

You will hear cat0, cat1 and cat2 mentioned. This refers to the size of the balls on the lower links of the tractor and the SIZE of ATTATCHMENT.

Being in Michigan can you afford a cab, if so get ac and heat. summer = roast, winter = freeze.

I recomend a hydrostatic trans as this is easiest to learn for complete beginners like you and you can put other beginners on it and still be fairly safe.

When using the loader travel with the load low to the ground as with the weight up high there is a lot of leveage and it is very easy to roll the tractor when turning (even gently) and just driving across a side slope.

Ergonomic matter. If a tractor is not comfortable to operate don't buy it. Particularly the loader controls. You will be surprised at the small diference between just right and wrong.

Good Luck

 

[arrow]

I have a strong dislike of hydrostatic transmissions.

In the hills we have around here Hydrostats suck power causing you to have to choose a lower range than you would have otherwise. The need to set a cruise control or keep your foot on the pedal is a compromise. They are very inconsistent for ground speed, making spreading, spraying and other speed sensitive chores a challenge. I am a fan of powershift transmissions. They are very nice and easy to use, put full power to the ground maintain a more consistent speed and make shifting on hills easy. Doing ground engaging work such as plowing or discing really makes a geared tractor shine. If I were in the market for a compact tractor I would absolutely go with a Kubota GST or an older Case CVT. My Massey is geared with a shuttle. It will go up hills better than my friends Kubota L6060 60 hp hydrostat despite being only 45HP and weighing twice the L6060. Most of my friends that grew up on farms share a similar disdane for hydrostatic transmissions for the reason I mention above.

However my experience is that hydrostat is easier to learn. In college we had geared and HST (Hydrostatic transmissions) on the tractors. The new students had a much easier time driving hydrostatic tractors as they only had to learn how to run the loader since the pedals or tredle is intuitive and requires 0 skill. The learning curve on a hydrostat is much shallower making efficient operation quicker to achieve with most operators. I have friends that I taught how to drive tractors, two of them struggled with my geared tractor due to the transmission. Both can drive stick shift cars so they understand the basics. Both now own hydrostatic tractors that they are efficient with due to the shorter learning curve. When they run my geared tractor they still struggle.
This is my experience with hydrostats and folks new to tractor operation, as well as my desire to never own a HST tractor (I do really want a Verstile 276 or Ford 9030 despite being HST).

The point you make for initial experience on a tractor is valid. Hydros are just about fool proof.
It is why this market sector moves toward the automatic tractor as they did the auto tranny in cars.
That being said, the op l feel is apprehensive to a larger tractor however she needs as much work efficiency as possible in a smaller machine.
I feel the gains made with getting used to a shuttle, has a myriad of advantages as it applies to
long term usage.

 

[arrow]

Some food for thought.
Instead of doing the break in of the overgrown pastures etc, hire a contractor, with thier big gear you will be surprised at the bang for buck that you get. The EFFECT of this is you can get a smaller tractor to do your regular chores.
This should stretch the budget.

Manufacturers generally have a budget tractor and a primium tractor in the same size/power but different price.
Tyres: use agriculture tyres, not industrial (default tyre in your size tractor).
Rims: ag rims are 2 piece so they can be ahjusted wider for stability. Industrial tyres come on 1 piece rims, and can't be adjusted.

Hydraulics: Generally recommended to get 3rd service on loader as it is pricey to retro fit. Also good future proofing.
Rear hydraulics: minimum of 2 pairs.


Budget vs primium models: usually shows in 3 places. transmisssion. hydraulic pump capasity and tyres.

Budget trans = 2 speed hydro trans, primium = 3 speed hydro trans.

Hydraulic pump: budget = low output (slowish performance) and primium = higher output making the loader quicker and better performing.

Tyres: budget = narrow primium = wide

Loader: be aware that some loaders capasity is measured at the bucket pins (is a real world disapoinment). While others are measured at a point about a foot in front of the bucket pins (accurate real world lift) This is why some tractors will have a higher lift compared to others.

You will hear cat0, cat1 and cat2 mentioned. This refers to the size of the balls on the lower links of the tractor and the SIZE of ATTATCHMENT.

Being in Michigan can you afford a cab, if so get ac and heat. summer = roast, winter = freeze.

I recomend a hydrostatic trans as this is easiest to learn for complete beginners like you and you can put other beginners on it and still be fairly safe.

When using the loader travel with the load low to the ground as with the weight up high there is a lot of leveage and it is very easy to roll the tractor when turning (even gently) and just driving across a side slope.

Ergonomic matter. If a tractor is not comfortable to operate don't buy it. Particularly the loader controls. You will be surprised at the small diference between just right and wrong.

Good Luck

The op is an individual with no tractor experience.
Some of Your info l think, is a bit of overload for such an individual.

 

[arrow]

I don’t quite understand this comment.

In response to your statement of “ no perfect size in anything”
As it applies to tractor selection, that is a generality.
As elusive as “perfection” may be, a proper selection of tractor with the correct guidance based on job description, can come mighty close.
For instance, my tractor will not skid out an 18” dbh oak in one shot. It does so if l cut off the crown and section the stem in two.
If adhering to a stringent criteria, then my tractor is not perfect for not being able to drag out such a tree in one piece. It is perfect if l’m ok to harvest a tree of this size with three trips.
Saying my tractor is imperfect or perfect, then becomes a generality.

 

[redman135]

Arrow, on post 54 , the OP does not have enough knowledge to even know what questions to ask. The aim is to show some general things to consider. This should guide them to ask some of the questions they need answers for.

 

[arrow]

Arrow, on post 54 , the OP does not have enough knowledge to even know what questions to ask. The aim is to show some general things to consider. This should guide them to ask some of the questions they need answers for.

I know you’re trying to help but I feel she may be overwhelmed already.
When someone comes to me for a tractor and is a neophyte in the subject matter, I am not getting into discussions about pumps, rim particulars or hydraulic extensions.
They simply want to know what will do the jobs they described.
They are confused enough and to bring up the stuff you talk about is an absolute over load for them.