Possible DEF shortages

[Hay Dude]

I never said don’t shop at Walmart. Simply, if you choose to shop at Walmart, understand that their business model includes sourcing as many things offshore as possible. That’s what keeps their prices low and their profits high. That’s their right.

You also have the right to shoes another retailer. That may require you to pay higher prices or travel a hundred miles.

Just don’t complain about it. It’s your choice to make... nobody else’s.

Personally, I don’t spend much money at Walmart. Don’t like the stores, choices, or the clientele. I did stop there last week, though, looking for distilled water... they were out.

What retailer doesn’t source a lot of things offshore? I could go to NAPA, tractor supply, Lowe’s, auto zone and it’s the same thing?
Look, I don’t like Walmart and I ain’t here to be a corporate shill for them, either.
They have reasonably priced DEF, but now they’re always out.
That’s all I’m saying. Why can’t I complain about DEF shortages? I didn’t say they were only at WalMart. I said they were also at NAPA, Lowe’s and other places.
“Don’t like their clientele”?

 

[orezok]

China is not the real problem. It’s the American corporations that shipped all their jobs and product production to China so that they could make more PROFIT.

So if you own stock in an American corporation, look in the mirror to see the real culprit!

 

[RickB]

China is not the real problem. It’s the American corporations that shipped all their jobs and product production to China so that they could make more PROFIT.

So if you own stock in an American corporation, look in the mirror to see the real culprit!

Consumer demand for cheap goods is a significant contributing factor.
Prime example right here in this thread.

 

[orezok]

 

[RickB]

Pretty much. See post #11 here.

 

[Gcorron]

My 96 is mechanical injection. Believe pre 98.5 are. There were a few 24 valve, mechanical injection made during the transition that are highly sought after. Good puller, extremely reliable and fuel economy of anything made since. Last of the bulletproof breed. Yes getting older.

Cummins made 12 valve mechanical engines, and put them in the Dodge Trucks, until December 31, 1997. This included the first of the 98's, hence you see the term 98.5 on many. It means they are mechanical.
I've had a lot of offers, but my 97 isn't leaving me!! Super simple to work on, NO DEF.

George

 

[Citydude]

The US lacks the labor supply, regulatory framework and the basic desire for self sufficiency to regain its position of manufacturing superiority.
Complaining about empty shelves at Walmart is part of the proof. Every single one of us shares in the responsibility.
I have said for 30 years this country is on a path to ruin and that is more evident every day.

No, the US lacks vision and leadership to make things happen.

 

[Hay Dude]

For the love of Pete! Lots of stores, not just WalMart are struggling to stock DEF

 

[Kschwennsen]

Yep, anything made in China is controlled by them. They can create shortages and surpluses. They can do it as a means of controlling a country’s way of life and national security.
Those items you mentioned are heavily made in China.

This is serious business. People need to wake up and realize that production in the US needs to be restored to levels that can ensure national security and flow of commerce.

If you want to see panic, watch what happens to trucking when DEF can’t be found. The flow of goods STOPS

Only if drivers are dumb enough to just drive newer trucks. the Old boys will keep on rolling and making serious Green!

 

[finn1]

The DEF shortage is more than likely a container shortage. Production capacity isn’t an issue, or shouldn’t be, anyway.

Only the European vehicle/ engine manufacturers were using it when the EMA started to develop domestic sources to support domestic consumption. The suppliers went from no capacity to full speed in a year or two, including developing a logistics system.

The only real requirement is a good supply of distilled water, and a supply of pure ammonia. Both of which are low capital items with known processes, and 100 percent domestically produced.

 

[DieselBound]

To those confusing DEF and "pre-emissions"... We've had "emissions" stuff for MANY decades. DEF has been around for less than two decades: not sure exact date Mercedes came up with it. My tractor is Tier IV but it doesn't use DEF. DEF isn't a requirement for anyone. DEF systems just make it easier to hit the emissions standards: costs manufacturers patent rights [from Mercedes] to use it.

DEF comes in big barrels. I'd look to have a barrel, if I had equipment that needed it, just like I look to have a tank full of diesel. Will admit, however, that I have no idea on storage and shelf life, so maybe not an option...

The "lesson," as uncomfortable as it is, is that the JIT (Just In Time) system is starting to break down: Toyota learned the lesson with Fukushima- they relaxed on their pure JIT scheme to allow for critical parts to be stocked up. I foresaw all this many years ago: just took longer to [d]evolve than I figured.

BTW - I've got "mechanical" injection pumps on my VW TDIs, which have no DEF or DPF; but, they DO have EGR valves and coolers (both are fairly trivial and, for the most part, trouble-free [if your operate the cars like they should]). These cars use computers, simple ones: zero issues with mine at 225k miles and 21 years; wife's is only 18 years old and only 205k miles, so it's not as proven. My truck is ALL mechanical (only a pre-heater): 12V 5.9L Cummins; stinks and is dirty, but it's not used a lot (at the rate its used it'll last 2,000 years).

 

[finn1]

Shelf life of DEF is one year.

Typical dosing is 1.7% of fuel consumed. At least that’s the target most commonly used by engine manufacturers. That may have changed since I was involved, though.

 

[Hay Dude]

Only if drivers are dumb enough to just drive newer trucks. the Old boys will keep on rolling and making serious Green!

There’s some truth to that, for sure. The older trucks can get by with nothing and they can get in-frames along the way and just keep going.
Restrictions are appearing in spots, though. Did I read that you have to drive a truck made after a certain year to pick up containers in some CA ports? Some states have emissions testing, too.
The issue for me is the older 450/550 4500/5500 trucks can’t tow jack compared to the newer ones.
I should just go back to an older class 8 and get it over with…..

 

[ruffdog]

The fuel supplier that supplies fuel to the neighbor's tanks also supplies DEF fluid.

 

[CADplans]

If you run out of DEF, does the engine go into "limp mode" ??

If so, let it run out, operate in limp mode, the fuel mileage should go WAY up,, as limp mode is similar to hypermiling,,

7 Hypermiling Tips to Help Improve Your Fuel Economy

Under-inflated tires and extra weight in your car can reduce your car’s fuel economy. Learn how you might save money at the pump by hypermiling.

blog.nationwide.com

You end up with a Win/Win situation,, except, it takes longer to "get there",,,,,,,,

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I went to Walgreens this morning, and WTF... NO Aqua Velva!!! What's the world coming too?

 

[CADplans]

I went to Walgreens this morning, and WTF... NO Aqua Velva!!! What's the world coming too?

Is Aqua Velva a good substitute for DEF??

 

[orezok]

Is Aqua Velva a good substitute for DEF??

NO, but it makes your tractor exhaust smell good

 

[Hay Dude]

Is Aqua Velva a good substitute for DEF??

No and it smells like crap

 

[John_Mc]

China is not the real problem. It’s the American corporations that shipped all their jobs and product production to China so that they could make more PROFIT.

So if you own stock in an American corporation, look in the mirror to see the real culprit!

I agree with the look in the mirror part, but it's not the stockholder you need to look at. The real problem is American consumers. However, no one wants to admit it could be their own damn fault.

Corporations respond to what gets results. If the first Chinese stuff to be shipped over here sat on the shelf rotting away, they would not be bringing in more. As it is, American consumers demand CHEAP. They don't seem to care much how long it lasts. If US manufacturers did not start producing overseas, the overseas manufacturers would just start shipping the stuff here anyway. If it can be made cheaper elsewhere, SOMEONE will bring it in, and Americans will buy it.