Why do I want to buy a pre-Tier4 tractor?

[Cycledude]

Walmart sells DEF fluid for $15 for 2.4 gallons. In my Volkswagen car, that much used to last 30k miles. On a tractor, that is at least 100 hours of use. The cost is negligible.

Interesting, I guess it lasts way longer than I thought it would.

 

[Torvy]

For me, it is less about the $15, and more about have another thing to fuss with. Even with the increased number of tractors in use, they are a miniscule contributor to pollution. Simply too few running too few hours to be important.

I would like to have seen these simply be optional for those who feel it is necessary or preferable.

Maybe one day we can get someone in charge who will make an AG exemption for that.

 

[4570Man]

Walmart sells DEF fluid for $15 for 2.4 gallons. In my Volkswagen car, that much used to last 30k miles. On a tractor, that is at least 100 hours of use. The cost is negligible.

If only $15 was all it cost to own a def tractor. Unfortunately they’re plagued with problems. Usually expensive problems. I’m not some old fart that bucks up against every new idea. I’m always for a better way. Unfortunately government mandates that are expensive and unreliable isn’t progress.

 

[jyoutz]

If only $15 was all it cost to own a def tractor. Unfortunately they’re plagued with problems. Usually expensive problems. I’m not some old fart that bucks up against every new idea. I’m always for a better way. Unfortunately government mandates that are expensive and unreliable isn’t progress.

I have never had a problem with the Volkswagen with DEF injection, and I have neighbors with DEF injected tractors. Never heard of a problem. The fluid is cheap and is simple to pour in a tank. Yes, the car had a regen cycle periodically, but it always completed without problems. And so do the tractors. I think the perception that DEF injection is problematic is more of a pushback against the gobment regulations than reality.

 

[big bubba]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I just went and looked at a really well maintained and lowish hours L4150 not too far away from me, for a pretty fair price I think. Has a 2-way tilt 8' snowplow blade on the front, which I would want to remove and possibly try to sell, but the good thing is that it has a 2-lever valve waiting out of the way on the fender if I ever decided to mount a FEL on it. Currently I don't want a FEL since I have a skidsteer to do material moving.

Everything I've been reading about L4150 applauds it for being a really solid and reliable time-tested model.

I forced myself to not take any cash with me so that I will have to chew on the decision to buy it for a few days before pulling the trigger.

This thing seems to have everything (and actually a little more with the 540/750 pto switch) that the M5660 that I am considering brand new has, except for the hydraulic shuttle shift (wet clutch would be nice but the 4140 had a new clutch installed just 500 hours ago), folding ROPS, and the constant rpm management feature. And of course the DPF, which I'd sort of lean towards if it wasn't linked to a computer. The L4150 started up clean as a whistle though, I couldn't even smell the diesel while running it for 20 minutes.

Any last thoughts before I make the move?

assume L4150 is 4wd? also just a personal preference note: i'd be looking at one with a FEL even if you have the back up skid steer. you will find it useful, will provide ft ballast, & resale value higher. good luck with your purchase, sounds like you got the fever! been there before

 

[RolandW]

I'm not qualified to offer any analysis of Tier 4, but I like my 2013 tractor because the exhaust comes out of the turbocharger, through the muffler, and up the stack – the way God intended it.

 

[ericm979]

Tier 3, 4, etc have different tiers per engine HP. There are three applicable for CUTS- below 25.5hp, 25.5-75hp, and above 75hp. Each tier the emissions limits per hp get stricter. It's only the >75hp tier where DEF is used. Below 25.5hp the tier 4 limits can be met with engine tuning and no DPF/DOC.

Tiers 3 and 4 (and presumeably 5) regulate both gaseous emissions like NOx and soot. NOx is what makes smoggy air brown and soot causes lung cancer. You can tune a non emissions diesel to have low NOx but it'll make more soot. Tune it for low soot and it'll make more NOx. Addressing the soot with the DPF lets it be tuned for low NOx.

When DPFs were first introduced many operators panicked when the tractor notified them a regen was needed and hit the button to delay it. While there may be some circumstances where that's warranted a lot of guys then forgot to have it regen asap. Which results in a clogged DPF and a service call. Some manufacturers changed the regen delay to make it less error prone.

A few 25.5-75hp tier 4 CUTS had problems with their emissions systems. Most notably the Kubota B3350, which has been discontinued. In cold weather it had problems getting the DPF hot enough.

Most DPF systems are really a DOC and a DPF. There's also some DOC only systems, which don't do regens. If you have a DPF tractor that does regens it's best to let it do it when it needs it. Ideally it'll happen when you're working the tractor and you won't notice much, if anything.

Some guys like to idle the tractor around. Diesels make more soot at low engine speeds. Many tractors with DPF have a recommended RPM range to run in for the least soot accumulation in the DPF. You don't have to do that all the time but running it there most of the time is a good idea for longer times between regens.

 

[Brambleberry]

assume L4150 is 4wd? also just a personal preference note: i'd be looking at one with a FEL even if you have the back up skid steer. you will find it useful, will provide ft ballast, & resale value higher. good luck with your purchase, sounds like you got the fever! been there before

Yep, I keep getting pulled towards FELs as I shop. If it's something I can drop off of the tractor and hook up to fairly easily, it would be nice, especially if I spring for the larger end of what I'm looking at (would handle much heavier loads than my Bobcat 743).

It is 4wd.

I'm just finding my gut wants to go with a known entity, and everything I read about the L4150 says it's solid. Seeing the tractor and knowing the owner has been operating it, servicing it regularly, etc since '96, it's just hard to try going for a different tractor with more unknowns.

I really wish it had the hyd shuttle, but what can I do?

 

[Brambleberry]

assume L4150 is 4wd? also just a personal preference note: i'd be looking at one with a FEL even if you have the back up skid steer. you will find it useful, will provide ft ballast, & resale value higher. good luck with your purchase, sounds like you got the fever! been there before

Anyone know how hard it would be for me to find a good used FEL that would fit this L4150?

 

[big bubba]

Brambelberry: smart move to go with a FEL. adding a FEL will be expensive on any machine compared to an existing one. you should get some good info on the forum for that. unless you're settled on the tractor you're looking at, i'd wait. but others may offer better advice, good luck
btw you can approximate the lift capacity in lbs of a given fel (Kubota) by multiplying the FEL model # by 2.2...it's kilogram rated