Two speed Electric motor question

[beowulf]

This seems to be the most logical forum in which to post this - though not actually a rural living issues.

Anyway, we have a 2 speed pool pump controlled by a panel with a fast and a slow speed button. 230V.

A bearing went out so I unhooked the pump and took it in for repairs at a local shop. But when I reinstalled the pump, the pump works with the high speed button but when I hit the slow speed button I only get a moderate humming sound. I am fairly confident I rewired it correctly - one red, one black, a white and a ground. But maybe not?

After this happened I reversed the red and black wire connections (though I did not think this could be the issue) and then the slow button worked to turn it on at a fast speed and the fast button only caused the humming sound.

Most likely it is my fault somewhere but not sure so looking for help. BTW - I checked the breaker and it seems to work - it consists of two 20 amp breakers which were once bound together but that plastic piece broke - but I throw both together now until I fix that.)

Looking for ideas, things to try, the bad news. . . .? I will try to call the pump manufacturer as well. Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[the old grind]

Sounds like another wire-switch will get you there. (DAMHIK) Say if white and red were 'hota' vs white & black.

NEC specs are for external wiring, but not always followed inside some equipment. At least you didn't have brown, orange, and yellow, too.

 

[Roadworthy]

Take the motor back to the shop. Explain to them it is a two speed motor and ask them to please identify what power level connects to which wire. Normally the two colored wires (red and black in this case) are "hot" and white is neutral. While checking things out identify your power lines going to the pump. It is possible your line colors do not follow the electrical code. Something may even be swapped somewhere between there and the panel - perhaps in a junction box along the way.

 

[beowulf]

Roadworthy - thanks for responding. The only thing that was disconnected in order to take it to the shop were the wires going into the motor. Two hot (red and Black) and the neutral and a green ground. I am almost certain I reconnected the wires in the same spots - the only thing that made me start to doubt this was that the low speed did not work. So, I switched the red and black leads - same result - no low speed except that then the low speed button turned on the high speed, and the high speed button resulted in the same humming sound.

All connections are tight at the motor and at the control box. I also tried switching the neutral with the black and then the neutral with the red - nothing starts on either button in either of those scenarios.

I will take it back to the shop - likely they can tell me what the problem may be. I posted the question generally on the Internet and found discussions of this issue - i.e, only the high or only the low speed working on a two speed pump. Some comments there were beyond my pay grade to understand, but others said it is likely a faulty relay - something that is apparently important on a two speed pump and something that would cause this.

 

[the old grind]

Did the controller die and not the pump to begin with?

Fingers crossed that the shop will get you going.

 

[beowulf]

Did the controller die and not the pump to begin with?

Fingers crossed that the shop will get you going.

The old grind - thank you for responding.

The reason I took it to the shop was because one day it started screeching loudly - very very loud. So I figured it was a bearing issue - both speeds ran then - but it screeched on both speeds. The day before the screeching I noticed the sound of the pump was just ever so slightly different and mentioned that to my wife. The shop said they replaced the bearings and the seals.

I forgot to mention though, that to test the control panel I bypassed the high and low speed switches in the control box by connecting the load and lead wires directly and had the same results - the pump worked when connected outside of the control box on high, hummed when connected outside of the control box on low.


AND forgot to mention also: If I push the fast speed button at the same time I push the low speed button and then let go of the high speed button, the pump works on low speed - which otherwise does not work just by pushing the low speed button. So, confusing.

 

[workinonit]

I think that white wire is actually your low speed winding. Look at the nameplate on the motor and verify that the motor has a high and low speed winding. 240 VAC motors don't have a neutral.

 

[Industrial Toys]

^ Could be. I would simply ask the shop. No offence, but people experimenting with connecting various wire schemes and then trying different ones when that doesn't work , is a recipe for damage.

Sounds like the starting capacitor or start winding is somehow messed up if you can run the other speed when starting it on the other speed.

 

[beowulf]

^ Could be. I would simply ask the shop. No offence, but people experimenting with connecting various wire schemes and then trying different ones when that doesn't work , is a recipe for damage.

Thanks for suggestions. No offence taken - I have to agree with you and those thoughts were also mine as I experimented a bit.

 

[RoyKing]

post a pic if you have no wiring diagram

 

[grsthegreat]

those pumps use a common and a high and a low wire. you definitely need a wiring diagram, or an electrician with knowledge and a good meter to test line power from controller. i never just swap wires around ..good way to wreck motor. most of these motors will have terminals labeled ..something like a green screw for ground and then 1,2,3 or 4. you need to find out which terminal is meant for common lead (used on both high and low speed) and which are for other two. in the past i seem to recall that most use the white for common, but i dont really recall. more than likely you have the common wire in the wrong spot.

 

[Industrial Toys]

If you have three wires, how many combinations can there be? lol Don't need no stinkin electchicken! I always get called after all the combinations have been exhausted, and find mysterious damage. How could that be???:confused2:

 

[RoyKing]

From what you described, your start switch maybe more that just switch, post pic

 

[beowulf]

RoyKing, thanks for responding. I will try to take and post pics later today -heading to town now. I have a wiring diagram I found on the Internet and will also post that but not sure it is the correct one. I will also try to take a pic of the control panel and label the wires identified to the pump.

I did not originally wire the control panel and pump and so I guess that is an issue - i.e., what options for wiring were selected. Hopefully, I can get this figured out. Still - could be the capacitor or a relay and not the wiring but need to eliminate a wiring issue first. Thanks again for helping me with this.

 

[tallyho8]

I have never even seen a pump motor but I have installed over 2000 air conditioner motors. The vast majority of the 230 volt ones had a white common wire, black for high speed, red for low speed and a brown wire for capacitor if they used a capacitor.

If you ever hooked up the two hot wires to red and black it would immediately let the smoke out of the motor and would be an expensive lesson.

 

[beowulf]

RoyKing, I finally got around to taking the pictures. One pic of the control panel with the wires running to the motor labeled (though likely self explanatory - common/white = A, black/hot + B, red/hot = C), and a pic of the back of the motor with terminals revealed but not hooked up - there are numbers there 1-4 (seems the numbers do not precisely line up, e.g., 3-4 near bottom terminal point? I found a wiring diagram online but not sure it is the correct one for my set up. I can post that as well if it may be helpful.

Note - after I looked at the pic of the control it appeared as if a bare ground wire was not tied in anywhere - I went back and it was only a pine needle since removed - so thought I should mention that.

Again, I appreciate any help you can provide. If I can eliminate a miswiring issue at my end, I can then consider if it is a capacitor or relay or other issue.

 

[Industrial Toys]

So, they just use the timer as a contactor?

Is there no wiring diagram on the motor? Like, on the inside of the cover plate?

Did you talk to the motor shop?

Re-read the OP. Seems like NOTHING is wrong with the motor. Maybe a contact or Solid State relay in the Intermatic. I would hook it up to 240 bypassing the timer. Leave white connected and try applying power to the black lead and then the red lead. Not both at the same time. Do you have a disconnect switch nearby to switch power on and off?

 

[beowulf]

Industrial, thanks for suggestions. There is no wiring diagram on the cover plate. There is a label on the side of the motor but I can't quite see it because of the location very near a wall. I will try to squeeze a camera in there and post that - from what I can see there may be a diagram of some kind there - so your suggestion is a good one - to look for the diagram on the motor.

The control panel - or timer is what controls the times the pump kicks on and off for high speed and for low speed during any 24 hour period. So power from breakers to to the timer/control panel and from there to the motor. I think there is also a line going to a pool light running from that box - but not timed -just to another switch near the pool for the light.

The motor was repaired at a pool supply store - they routinely replace bearings, seals and such. I do no know their level of expertise beyond that - but another good suggestion. I called, but no return call yet. It may be helpful for them if I just take the photos in to them and ask at their store when I go to town in the next few days.

Again, my thanks to you for helping out.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Reading your OP carefully, makes me understand that the motor DOES work, slow and fast if you interchange connections. The start circuits or capacitors must be in the motor. The Intermatic just switches the power, via contacts or using solid state. So, I suspect that it could be the control and not the motor.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I was curious bout that timer. Could not find a PDF. Pricy device! Some people had issues with corroded terminals. Also has to be in a certain mode, for two speed motors.