Two speed Electric motor question

[beowulf]

Industrial Toys, Thanks again for the attention.

I will be heading to town in the next 2-3 days and will take it in. Best to have them confirm if it is the motor. And, truth be told, it could be that whatever the initial problem was (no low speed) was somehow caused by me but if so, I am not certain just how I would have done that as that was the initial issue and remains the issue - except that now the high speed button on the timer does not work either.

I will post an update once I take it in. If it was just the motor, likely the pool shop could provide a replacement (used or new) at a reasonable cost - but if it is both, the two speed timers are expensive and so a new combination pump timer unit may be the best option and if it lasts a few years, it will be worth it - grand kids gotta swim.

Or, I suppose I could just get a single speed timer and run it only on high for a few hours a day.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Depending on how nice these people are. Why don't you take the control with you?

 

[RoyKing]

Do you really need 2 speed, a one speed high efficiency motors cost a lot less, in fact why not run on high until dies, just adjust run time. I know they made you buy a two speed, but no inspection for repairs

 

[radios1]

I don't think so, there is not two separate start windings for low and high, the best way to test is bring two hot lines from a breaker and wire up and test. Or get in the control box and install some jumpers.

then explain why the start windings are not working on low speed!.. because they aren't working on low speed!..

 

[Industrial Toys]

Maybe someone could say how the start winding/circuit works on a two speed motor. On a single speed motor, isn't the winding and capacitor switched by a centrifugal switch just wired to the main supply? So how does that work with two speeds?

 

[radios1]

Maybe someone could say how the start winding/circuit works on a two speed motor. On a single speed motor, isn't the winding and capacitor switched by a centrifugal switch just wired to the main supply? So how does that work with two speeds?

like this. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...7RAF3l1TIwHyO54Ktznm6LcHSpMErZZf2gznUByzbwfM4

 

[Industrial Toys]

Interesting. So there isn't always a centrifugal switch?

Almost makes me think then, that it could be a failing start cap. But the motor shop tested it. Have them check the value of it specifically.

 

[the old grind]

Centrifugal switch cuts out a starting capacitor (AC motors only) which would be there to offset input power briefly to get the motor spinning.

As for starting torque. If a cap is there and mostly roasted the motor may run no-load but won't start with a normal load.

What IT says, when you have two confusing things not working together you can beat yourself up trying to determine which one causes the issue.

Yes, I'd take the switch to town in hopes that a shop that can test the motor could test it too. Take all your info with you when you go. :2cents:

 

[Industrial Toys]

Nothing made sense up to now. If I was a betting man, I might put my money on an out of spec cap. I have a ten dollar cap checker, but that doesn't help the op. Good thing to have around for what it costs. Mostly ever just told me that a cap wasn't the problem. But that can be just as valuable.

 

[beowulf]

Do you really need 2 speed, a one speed high efficiency motors cost a lot less, in fact why not run on high until dies, just adjust run time. I know they made you buy a two speed, but no inspection for repairs

That is precisely what I am thinking. I recall when the two speed motor was put in the tech said that on high speed my Polaris pressure side pool cleaner would run and on low speed it would not which he said was the intention of it all. But I am thinking I can get a simple timer for one speed and just set that to run the pump on high for the recommended hours per day. After all, that was the way I did it for years until they had to replace the old pump and put in a two speed unit. I can get an electro mechanical timer for about $50 and be done with it.

I will still take the pump in, and may also try to take the timer.

 

[kenmbz]

I run about 25,000 gallon salt water on a single speed with regular timer. Works fine.

 

[Industrial Toys]

That's an expensive timer. Remembers stuff for forty years! No need to replace it for a single speed motor. It has one timer circuit, you aren't even using.

 

[radios1]

Interesting. So there isn't always a centrifugal switch?

Almost makes me think then, that it could be a failing start cap. But the motor shop tested it. Have them check the value of it specifically.

pool pump motors don't have a start cap, not that much torque is needed for the pump. just a centrifugal switch. so cross out the start cap.. you can make a saw or compressor motor out of a pool pump motor by putting a start cap in series with the centrifugal switch, though. it works great..

 

[beowulf]

okay guys....an update - I think I am narrowing this down. Went through a few options again this morning - some repeated from before.

1)when I said it no longer worked on high speed that was because I had a loose line wire connection - likely because I did not retighten after one of my wiring dx changes. Discovered that this morning as I checked all the wires and now high speed works fine. So that info was misleading and confusing.

2) I tried low speed on all three of the control box circuits and all give me a moderate humming sound. Then I tried the high speed wire on all three of the control box circuits and have high speed working on each of the three buttons - so assuming the timer/control box is okay.

BUT now discovered this: While I cannot start low speed no matter which of the three timer circuits I use IF I have the pump running on high speed and then toggle to low (i.e., hit the low button after starting on high and while it is running on high) the pump will toggle to low and runs normally. I can toggle between high and low - back and forth - and get each speed - high on high button and low on low button. BTW the way the timer has always worked is that if it is running on one speed and you hit the other speed it just switches to that speed.

So, my lay person and technically uninformed assumption is that there is either too much resistance somewhere in the pump so that it can't get started on 'low', but once kick-started on high, low can manage to kick in. Or there is something within the pump (?) that is not functioning correctly. I am thinking it is within the pump because when I wire the pump directly - outside of the timer system - I still get the humming sound when trying low speed and it does not start.

Anyway if the motor is bad on low and would require expensive repairs or a replacement, I am content to set the timer to just run it on high.

AS always, thanks for all of your help.