Trailer Width

[RickB]

I would not consider tandem torsion axles on a trailer that spends any significant amount of time on uneven areas.

 

[Hay Dude]

Good point on the D rings, I had not even considered that.

The tail gate/ door design is important to me and PJ and Maxxd have one that I like with the way they are held open. The hoist is very important. I like the telescoping best but does not seem to be available in 16' trailers. A single cylinder scissors lift is an acceptable 2nd choice. I will not get a dual cylinder lift. I've seen them get out of sync with uneven loading (not common but a pain to deal with). I'll take another look at the torsion axles, it's been awhile since I last looked at them. I also want an extra long tarp since some stuff will be light and bulky and I'll use side extensions.

I have another thread on dealer selection and all dealers I've talked to so far regardless of brand are quoting about 3 months out for orders and all the trailers they have coming in, in the next month or 2 have already been sold.

Load Trail has telescoping hoist on 16 footer
I am experiencing ZERO availability on deck over dumps (96 inch)
Theres like 4 of them in the country that come close to suiting my needs.
I think Im going to order a Load Trail.

 

[4570Man]

Good point on the D rings, I had not even considered that.

The tail gate/ door design is important to me and PJ and Maxxd have one that I like with the way they are held open. The hoist is very important. I like the telescoping best but does not seem to be available in 16' trailers. A single cylinder scissors lift is an acceptable 2nd choice. I will not get a dual cylinder lift. I've seen them get out of sync with uneven loading (not common but a pain to deal with). I'll take another look at the torsion axles, it's been awhile since I last looked at them. I also want an extra long tarp since some stuff will be light and bulky and I'll use side extensions.

I have another thread on dealer selection and all dealers I've talked to so far regardless of brand are quoting about 3 months out for orders and all the trailers they have coming in, in the next month or 2 have already been sold.

Duel cylinders can’t get out of sync unless they have flow dividers which they probably don’t. The only way for that to happen is for the frame to be bent. Plenty of equipment has duel cylinder lift and it works fine. Loaders, excavators, rollbacks flatbed dumps all usually have duel cylinders. My dump truck has a telescoping cylinder along with most other dump trucks but it’s got a cutout in the bed to accommodate it. I’d much rather have a hoist and have my bed straight against the front. It makes loading logs a pain and dirt sticks in the corners worse.

 

[Hay Dude]

Guy that owns a trailer super store in my state tells me telescoping will probably be the industry standard in 5 years.

 

[4570Man]

By telescoping you mean an extending cylinder like this and not a hoist like this trailer right? They’ve both been around since about the invention of hydraulics so I don’t see scrapping either one in the next 5 years. Honestly I think the hoist is the better way because it leaves the inside of the bed unobstructed and works in flat beds.

 

[nisaacs]

Most dump trailers have the cylinder mounted outside the bed, not like a dump truck. They are super powerful but really slow, especially the first stage since it is the biggest, as the stages go smaller it goes faster. It is powerful because at the most it lifts half the load, the others lift most if not all the load depending on where the builder installs the hoist. Also, the scissors hoist are not all created equal, you have to watch out for that. Some only have a channel iron for the bottom joint, rather than a square tube, some are massive like my Lamar.

 

[Hay Dude]

Heres a load trail telescoping hoist

 

[RickB]

Piss poor design with the cylinder extending above the top of the front panel.
Telescoping cylinders will not take over the industry that way.

 

[4570Man]

Piss poor design with the cylinder extending above the top of the front panel.
Telescoping cylinders will not take over the industry that way.

That’s what I thought. They’ll get bent. My 1990 truck has a telescoping cylinder and I’m sure they existed before that. I’ve got a forklift from the 50s with one on it. They’re nothing new.

 

[kthompson]

Be sure you have included any bagging of the rear tires in the width of your machine.

 

[nisaacs]

By telescoping you mean an extending cylinder like this and not a hoist like this trailer right? They’ve both been around since about the invention of hydraulics so I don’t see scrapping either one in the next 5 years.

They are relatively new to the pickup sized dump trailer industry, not a new cylinder invention. "Industry standard" just means they will be the lift of choice. Nobody said anything about scraping the scissors or twins. What is wrong with a choice? Just like engines, transmissions and rear axle gears, choice is always good.

 

[nisaacs]

I would not consider tandem torsion axles on a trailer that spends any significant amount of time on uneven areas.

That's where they really shine. They do need to sit level but any trailer needs to be level. Go through a six inch by six inch washout that crosses the road at an angle....your truck will drop each wheel as you cross, that's four times you rock the boat. The trailer doesn't even know it is there, especially with a slight spread axle like my PJ. With standard springs and equalizer, the trailer can set up a cycle of bucking on certain road/load conditions that will drive you crazy. They really need shocks at all four points.

One can argue the springs will allow more give and spread the axle weight more evenly. Or tow the trailer unlevel with less negative disturbance to the axles. Keep in mind there is only about 2-3" of clearance between the axle u-bolts and the frame. When they hit (happens all the time) it is steel on steel, no give, that's what bends/breaks axles.

My Lamar and PJ dumps have the same size bed, the Lamar has 8k spring axles, the PJ 10k torsion axles, night and day towing them. If I have a choice give me torsion.

 

[Hay Dude]

Thatç—´ what I thought. They値l get bent. My 1990 truck has a telescoping cylinder and I知 sure they existed before that. I致e got a forklift from the 50s with one on it. Theyæ±*e nothing new.

My IH dump has telescoping cylinder hoist and its great.

 

[RickB]

That's where they really shine. They do need to sit level but any trailer needs to be level. Go through a six inch by six inch washout that crosses the road at an angle....your truck will drop each wheel as you cross, that's four times you rock the boat. The trailer doesn't even know it is there, especially with a slight spread axle like my PJ. With standard springs and equalizer, the trailer can set up a cycle of bucking on certain road/load conditions that will drive you crazy. They really need shocks at all four points.

One can argue the springs will allow more give and spread the axle weight more evenly. Or tow the trailer unlevel with less negative disturbance to the axles. Keep in mind there is only about 2-3" of clearance between the axle u-bolts and the frame. When they hit (happens all the time) it is steel on steel, no give, that's what bends/breaks axles.

My Lamar and PJ dumps have the same size bed, the Lamar has 8k spring axles, the PJ 10k torsion axles, night and day towing them. If I have a choice give me torsion.

That’s why they still sell both styles. The total lack of load equalization with torsion axles is a non starter for me.
What you buy and use is up to you.

 

[nisaacs]

The total lack of load equalization with torsion axles is a non starter for me.

They do have load equalization, every corner is preloaded. However, they are independent, that's why they ride so good. The jar of the equalizer is what gives the bucking motion to the truck. That is turn flexes the frame which flexes the gooseneck riser and the list goes on. But yes, choice is good they all work.

 

[RickB]

No trailer bucks when loaded properly.

 

[nisaacs]

No trailer bucks when loaded properly.

Fact...They will all buck at times. Fact.... Road conditions, load placement (you don't always have a choice) length, weight, design, again the list goes on. Fact....The torsion system is really no different than 4 point air bags on a big truck, they really do work and work well.

 

[aczlan]

They do have load equalization, every corner is preloaded. However, they are independent, that's why they ride so good. The jar of the equalizer is what gives the bucking motion to the truck. That is turn flexes the frame which flexes the gooseneck riser and the list goes on. But yes, choice is good they all work.

If the trailer isn't exactly level with torsion axles, it will load the low axle more than the high axle vs a spring axle where it will equalize the weight to a certain extent.


Aaron Z

 

[RickB]

Fact.The torsion system is really no different than 4 point air bags on a big truck, they really do work and work well.

Well you just proved that you do not understand how air suspension works. Most systems have one leveling valve. That allows air to flow from bag to bag equalizing the load carried by each wheel or pair of wheels.
I am out, have a good day.

 

[nisaacs]

Well you just proved that you do not understand how air suspension works. Most systems have one leveling valve. That allows air to flow from bag to bag equalizing the load carried by each wheel or pair of wheels.
I am out, have a good day.

My point was axle/corner independence not air flow. Any disturbance of the road surface will transfer to the trailer frame (springs) because both axles take the hit created by the equalizer bar. Then the frame action transfers to the tow vehicle. This happens twice as each axle does it's thing. Not so with torsion, they have a tendency to glide over the bump because one axle supports the other. Choice is always good. I like torsion, you like springs, that's cool.