Grading Gravel Road Maintenance

[fried1765]

In summarizing the above posts:

First off, no standing water, period! If you have pot holes with water, cut the side forcing the hole to drain and give it time to dry out.

Best to have some "Finds" (rock powder of varying sizes) in with your rocks and materials to be damp and select a non setting material.....recycled concrete roadway material is perfect. The damp Finds will pack nicely after you run your "Land Plane" through your deposited aggregate to the point that you are satisfied with the result.

Use the tractor tires to pack your smoothed out material (just raise you plane and drive up and down the driveway till you have covered the surface with tire marks). Once you have it all pressed down, come back for another lap with the plane and do it all over again.

If you can put a crown on the road you are better off as it allows the water to roll off rather than puddle and ditches along the side to keep the water from standing and seeping back into your road base. Last, schedule your heavy truck traffic for dry times of the year.

That's my 2c.

Best to have some "Finds" ???

Have never heard of "Finds" used in roadway grading description.

Maybe you were looking for the term ...."FINES"?
As in fine material mixed with coarse material?

"Fines", is engineering lingo for fine v/s coarse material.
"Finds" are the result of an antique hunt.

 

[Red Horse]

Best to have some "Finds" ???

Have never heard of "Finds" used in a roadway grading description.
Maybe you were looking for ...."FINES"?
Like in fine material mixed with coarse material?

For sure "Fines". Here in New England, "graded base" or "process" is typically crushed stone mixed with the fines that are generated in the crushing operation. There are virtually no voids in this stuff. Usually youhave a choice of 3/4" with the fines or 1-1/2" with fines.

 

[Scrambler82]

Let me rephrase my question about the Crowning of a Road using a Grader Scraper (GS).

When using a 60" GS, on a 15 foot wide driveway, 1/4 mile long, how do I get the crown in the middle ?

My thought is, do I just use the GS tilted some on the edges and then level in the middle or keep the tilt in the device and make four passes instead of three ?

Sorry to keep asking questions about this but sometime it takes me a while to catch on.

Thanks for reading and posting to my questions in this thread.

Merry Christmas

p.s. What height/dept do you set the blades at ?

 

[TractorGuy]

Every time I see a land plane being demonstrated it's on an already smooth surface. Someone please find me a video of someone straightening out a pot hole rutted road.

I had a neighbor that had a land plane and he repeatedly ran up and down the roads with it till they became a ditch. He had no idea how to fix a pot hole or shape a road so it would drain. The low spots kept getting lower and lower until they became small lakes. Thank goodness his girlfriend ran him off.

I had a couple loads of dirt brought in to fill the low spots with my equipment. Then I had the road shaped by the county road grader and I instructed the operator which direction to pitch the road at different areas. Then I had crushed concrete brought in and had the grader finish smoothing it. I have maintained it with my landscape rake and grader blade. Results are 6 to 1, half dozen to the other. I think the grader blade does a little better job, especially if I extend my grading out to the adjoining dirt road. The crushed concrete road is still in good condition two years later and NEVER holds water.

Our dirt road that comes off the highway use to stay in a mess with huge pot holes. I paid the county to pull ditches where we could and pitch the road to one side where we couldn't. Several of us take turns grading that road but I have to go reshape it from time to time to keep it from holding water.

 

[deezler]

Let me rephrase my question about the Crowning of a Road using a Grader Scraper (GS).

When using a 60" GS, on a 15 foot wide driveway, 1/4 mile long, how do I get the crown in the middle ?

My thought is, do I just use the GS tilted some on the edges and then level in the middle or keep the tilt in the device and make four passes instead of three ?

Sorry to keep asking questions about this but sometime it takes me a while to catch on.

Hey scrambler. Is your definition of a "grader scraper" just a basic straight rear blade hanging off the 3-pt? Or do you mean land-plane?

I just re-worked my whole 1000" long gravel driveway on sunday afternoon with my 72-inch rear blade. It only took me about 15-20 minutes.

What I do (typically 3-5 times per year):
- Choose a direction and angle rear blade towards middle of road (I only have two angle choices on my blade each way, but find the bigger angle is best). *slightly* dip the outward/forward corner down so that you are digging just a bit, using the 3-pt height adjuster on the one arm.
- Run down the edges of the roadway, sharply defining the very edge of the road using the outer edge of the blade. Pull all this material into the center of the road. You'll now have a pile/ridge running down the road, either in the middle or off towards the other side, depending how wide your drive is.
- Repeat this process to define the other side edge of the roadway also. Now you have even more material lumped into the middle of the driveway.
- Turn the rear blade around BACKWARDS so that when you drive forwards, you'll now pull with the smooth, curved side. If you have rear angle adjustments, you can experiment with distributing the gravel material around as necessary. My rear blade only pulls straight in reverse, but I find this more than adequate.
- Drive down the CENTER of the road (or centered over your material ridge/pile you deposited) with the reversed blade, as appropriate to smash out the material ridge and redistribute it across the enter width of the driveway. Repeat passes if necessary but make sure not to get carried away and pull it off the sides or ruin your new crown. Et, voila. Done.
- Finally, when you and your family/friends drive on the new drive surface, have everyone vary their line down the drive, to compact the material evenly (note, dont swerve back and forth, just choose one line and stick to it each time until you eventually cover the full width). Damp conditions help this compacting process, but I like to scrape in the dry times.

I was afraid I might need to buy one more layer (20-25 tons) or 3/4"-minus to refresh my driveway before winter, but was very pleased to see that the above process completely renewed it with a nice distribution of stones, and a good crown in the middle again.

 

[deezler]

^ I should add: I actually intentionally did not get any finEs in my last two gravel truck-load deliveries, just went with 3/4-clean limestone. I like the look of more uniform stone, and the fact that my drive does not hold any water just about ever. Especially in the fall and spring, having fines present means you hold water on top of the road and spray it on your vehicles. I live on a paved road and like my cars to stay clean as long as possible. This DOES mean that my driveway is more prone to washboarding, since i dont have the finEs locking everything together as well. But the improved drainage is worth it to me. I also never get any pot-holes.

 

[hosspuller]

I have a 7 foot "Road Boss" land plane. The blades are angled toward the left... that is the material slides to the left when being pulled forward. The techniques I use were demo'd by the builder.
1 … to create a crown, set your three point on a level surface (tractor & implement) Level the land plane side to side, with the tractor wheels. Then set the left side of the 3 point to lift the blade before the right. This causes the blades to have more weight on the right. Pull the implement with the side plate beyond the edge of the gravel. This pulls the gravel toward the center. The 3 point lift can now determine how gravel is distributed over the width. On the return trip, again drive with the right plate on the edge. Now both edges have been pulled toward the center. The center will have more material since the passes overlap in the center. This forms the Crown in the road.

2... When at the end of your pass, the plane is full of material... While moving, simultaneously raise the plane and make a sharp turn to the left. This will leave a pile of material parallel to your travel. Back up and straddle the pile with the plane down. This gives you a plane full of material for the return pass.

 

[Scrambler82]

Hey scrambler. Is your definition of a "grader scraper" just a basic straight rear blade hanging off the 3-pt? Or do you mean land-plane?

I just re-worked my whole 1000" long gravel driveway on sunday afternoon with my 72-inch rear blade. It only took me about 15-20 minutes.

I use the term Grader Scraper for the Land Plane (LP), I will change my tactic there... Note to self...Remember Land Plane. LoL !

is using t Land Plane the same as using a Straight Blade ?

I have titled the left side of my LP down and have scraped the road sides already, but once I do the edges I need the center done, so I try to level the LP and hit the center, once each way, with overlapping passes.

I don't seem to get much of a center hump but maybe I'm not cutting the edge enough OR maybe I just need more stone.

My next door neighbor, used to use a box blade when he worked construction, he has promised me a lesson or two, his thought was that the Box Blade and the LP were close enough in the way they work the he can help... but getting him here is another thing.

Anyway, thanks for the information, I will scrape the edges only for a while, then get some more stone.

I noticed you said you use 3/4 minus... is that a standard size for road bed work ?

Thanks / Later

 

[Scrambler82]

I have a 7 foot "Road Boss" land plane. The blades are angled toward the left... that is the material slides to the left when being pulled forward. The techniques I use were demo'd by the builder.
1 … to create a crown, set your three point on a level surface (tractor & implement) Level the land plane side to side, with the tractor wheels. Then set the left side of the 3 point to lift the blade before the right. This causes the blades to have more weight on the right. Pull the implement with the side plate beyond the edge of the gravel. This pulls the gravel toward the center. The 3 point lift can now determine how gravel is distributed over the width. On the return trip, again drive with the right plate on the edge. Now both edges have been pulled toward the center. The center will have more material since the passes overlap in the center. This forms the Crown in the road.

Thanks to deezler nd yourself I THINK I understand and will do as I stated in my last post... I am going to do the edges with the Lane Plane's blades angled towards the center. After a few Side of road drags I will attempt to peel the LP and hit the center overlapping the two passes necessary.

It is going to take me a while to get the hang of this new method but I will persevere.


My Driveway is 15 feet wide and I use a 60" Lane Plane, so I need four passes to cover the width; so I thinking two edge cuts and two overlapping center cuts.

Now I need to check my Blade depth, I didn't check it when I stated using it and I am thinking it is lower than the sides, I think I need to bring it level with eh bottom of the sides.

Today I added a vent to my Barn door, I need to add a second one tomorrow so hoping for a Thursday run on the edges of the driveway.

Thanks to the two of you for the info, I will post when I get something to show.

Ltr

 

[Kioti Dave]

To cut the ridges of a wash boarded lane use about any grading implement that ANGLES...i.e, rear blade, landscape rake...just about anything that ANGLES will make short work of washboards...the key is cutting against the ridges not with them...

Yes, a rear blade will make quick work of any bumps etc. I always angle blade my 1 mile long drive first before I BB it, and always shortly after we get some rain. There seems to be a short window when the material is just 'damp enough'. I find that gravel will migrate to the sides and grass wants to move in from the sides. I will blade material from the sides to the center to keep the grass back, and to draw gravel back in. Gravel is expensive here in Canada, especially when you driveway is 1mile long. Once the blading is done, I run with the BB down the middle to start spreading the material back to the sides. Then run the BB down each side to finish off the driveway. I probably do this every 4 to 6 weeks in the summer. Have never had a rut or washboard. Around here, the washboards are always near intersections where vehicles are either braking or accelerating. I enjoy the process as it is nice to see the final product.

 

[hosspuller]

Now I need to check my Blade depth, I didn't check it when I stated using it and I am thinking it is lower than the sides, I think I need to bring it level with eh bottom of the sides.

Actually, I think you want the edges to be about 1/2 to 3/4 inch lower than the side plates. On a level surface, set the side plates on a wood board. Then drop the blades to the ground. This set the blades to the thickness of the board. The side plates with their skid shoes set the blade depth and smooth out washboard effects. That's why the land plane is more effective and easier than a rear blade or a box blade that transports material.

Road Boss instructions are much more clear. Road Boss Operator Instructions: English :: Road Boss Grader

 

[ovrszd]

Yep, cutters slightly below side plates.

As to crown. Build your crown from the base material of your roadbed. Don't add loose stone to build a crown.

 

[Scrambler82]

Actually, I think you want the edges to be about 1/2 to 3/4 inch lower than the side plates. On a level surface, set the side plates on a wood board. Then drop the blades to the ground. This set the blades to the thickness of the board. The side plates with their skid shoes set the blade depth and smooth out washboard effects. That's why the land plane is more effective and easier than a rear blade or a box blade that transports material.

Road Boss instructions are much more clear. Road Boss Operator Instructions: English :: Road Boss Grader

Interesting read, thx.

My Blade is approximately 1/2" below the side and although I can lift the Lane Plane a little to lose the content or drag less material, I find I am digging more than I think I should be or maybe that is want to, not sure yet !

Had some rain end of last week, was waiting for it to dry out some, weather report says no rain for a while so I think it is time to hit the driveway again. I am still removing material from the upper driveway, I am trying to lower it about 12", don't ask why, just something I have in my head to create a rise along the upper section instead of a rise then a drop.

I didn't put the driveway in so not sure what is underneath, still playing games, wish I had either put the drive in or the house foundation, I would either lowered one or raised the other to get the approach I want.

Thanks or the Road Boss Articles, I will be reading some other soon.

Ltr

 

[Scrambler82]

OK I separated these posting to keep the subject separate.

When I lower my drive to the point I want, actually below the point I want, what are the best materials to start a base with ?
AND is the 3/4" Crush Stone ok on top or is there a better size ? I'm not thinking for looks but for durability !

As I've said before, I am cutting the upper drive for a new lower approach angle to the house area. Once I get there I need to build the base and the top material up to the level and angle I want but I don't know what is good and what is bad types of material to use.

Thanks for any assist.

Ltr / Merry Christmas.

 

[deezler]

I put in a base of ~3" crushed concrete for my initial driveway/road. It was pretty rough to drive on for a while, but the concrete and semi trucks during building of the house smashed it down into a super solid base (excellent compaction). But the bigger a stone size you can tolerate on the initial layer, the better your road stability will be over time. Small stone laid directly onto soil will eventually disappear into it.

I have naturally sandy soils though, which helps make things easier. If you are really lowering your drive 12" in some areas, don't just dig a giant trench! Make sure your road bed still has a big crown and great drainage on each side, if you can. Then build the road UP from there. People who dig a trench and then fill it in with stone often end up unhappy (its also really expensive to need that much fill/stone). But you being in southern CA, I would suspect dry soils and weather, yes?

 

[PILOON]

Crowning a road base is no secret.
Adjust your blade or grader with the rt side lower and angled towards the center and drive up and then back on the other side.
That'll tilt or grade all the surplus to center.
Next comes that 3 rd pass (blade straight) to slightly flatten the center 'pile' that ends up in a crown.
On that last pass I like to reverse my blade and add some speed.

 

[Scrambler82]

I put in a base of ~3" crushed concrete for my initial driveway/road. It was pretty rough to drive on for a while, but the concrete and semi trucks during building of the house smashed it down into a super solid base (excellent compaction). But the bigger a stone size you can tolerate on the initial layer, the better your road stability will be over time. Small stone laid directly onto soil will eventually disappear into it.

I have naturally sandy soils though, which helps make things easier. If you are really lowering your drive 12" in some areas, don't just dig a giant trench! Make sure your road bed still has a big crown and great drainage on each side, if you can. Then build the road UP from there. People who dig a trench and then fill it in with stone often end up unhappy (its also really expensive to need that much fill/stone). But you being in southern CA, I would suspect dry soils and weather, yes?

Thanks forte reply.
My drive is 15 feet wide, flat across, no crown.
I didn't get to it today but tomorrow I will start the edge cuts, after tha tis where it get fuzzy, I have to make two overlapping drags over the center to get the full width of the drive.

I understand the edge title to the Land Plane but the center has me thrown, maybe I should just leave the center for a while until can get a build up.

My soil is hard, very hard when dry, but add some water and MUD appears, I think there is a lot of clay around here, when wet it is slippery.

I am trying just to keep it leveled up for the time being, I will start working the edges and see where it goes, once I get the upper road lowered I will get some of the 3/4+ or maybe even 1"+ spread that some, in fact the Truck Drivers spread it out pretty good when unloading if you ask them to; that will help.
Next step after that, I will need to attempt to use the Land Plane soon the stone.

Ltr

 

[Scrambler82]

Crowning a road base is no secret.
Adjust your blade or grader with the rt side lower and angled towards the center and drive up and then back on the other side.
That'll tilt or grade all the surplus to center.
Next comes that 3 rd pass (blade straight) to slightly flatten the center 'pile' that ends up in a crown.
On that last pass I like to reverse my blade and add some speed.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Scrambler82]

OK, so I've made the last couple of posting but I have another question.

I used the Land Plane (LP) as my Tool.
I have pretty much leveled the driveway, still needs some compaction.

My next step, I think< is to add some 1 1/2"+/- crushed Stone, this will make the base on top of the dirt.

After that... again I'm open, let it set, run over it as much as possible to compact it.

If above sound good, what is the next step... more stone but smaller, how small ?

AND... if I use the LP to level the stone, should I adjust the blades differently, and are the skids ok, I mean... will they ride the stone ok, not dig in.


I ask a lot of question and I am sorry if it bothers someone, but with my age and a little OCD/PTSD I find it easier for me to know the answer before it happens.

Thanks all for answering my questions even thought I didn't start this thread, it is appreciated !

My Wife says she will be more thankful once I finish the road..., LoL !

Added
p.s. I am thankful that there is a Site like this, information is given freely, no judgment, a little laughter, all is good !

God Bless all ! I prey that all of you have a better new year, good health and prosperity in what ever you do.

 

[bcp]

I'm just surprised that someone in SoCal has a muddy driveway problem.



Bruce