PowerTrac Specific Modifications

joshlee · Oct 22, 2019

Everyone I talked to that knows about the oil cooled Deutz say the same thing, that they are great. They are a very expensive Diesel engine from looking at the prices. Probably why you do not see as many of them. I am glad I bought my 1430 when I did, because I hear those engines have not been made since the last several months.

m5040 · Oct 23, 2019

Although mine has not used a drop of oil yet (30 hours), the local Duetz dealer told me it might use more then normal during the break in period, which is 800 hrs. There is no reduced hour first time oil change requirement. The engine has hydraulic lifters which advance the timing when it is not up to temp, so that is why it sounds different when warmed up. I am looking into a recall and when I find the answer I will let you know.

Pete1961 · Oct 27, 2019

Thanks for all the good info, good to know the machine is recoverable even if the engine fails (eg in a vandal prone neighbourhood)
This is always the biggest worry of a mini excavator breakdown (there are ways round but not easy)

I have a couple of questions, in the video here, Power Trac P T 45 Made In America . 45 H.P. A Man's Machine . Year 2000 With 600 Hours. - YouTube - is this a special build for the 3pt - or are the 3pt hyd cylinders mounted to the lugs that normally carry the P-T backhoe, in other words could these cyls be removed & the std P-T hoe fitted directly to the same lugs?
Re the Deutz engine - what is the expected working life of this vs the Kohler, I gather the Kohler 25 Hp has an expected life of about 2000 hrs before a rebuild. Not sure what this rebuild entails, or if the Honda 25 Hp Gas has a longer life. I do see on the Kohler pumps driven from both sides of the crank - maybe involving a 'flywheel stub shaft' to take drive from that side. Not sure if this available for the Honda, I was told by Struck that 'Honda sells the machines, as people like the engine' I have not been in touch with P-T yet over the tractive effort, but the machines do seem well liked by you owners out there!

m5040 · Oct 27, 2019

Not sure if the 3pt was removable on the same mount for BH. What I have seen of PT it would make sense, they like to keep things standard to a fault. When I asked if I could special order one for the 1430 I was told they don't offer them anymore as the front quick hitch was superior.
Regard the Deutz, there is no comparison to a air cooled gas engine for life expectancy. The break-in hours are 800 for the Deutz, that is the place where you consider it not new anymore but just starting its working life. Water cooled diesels in similar applications are good to 10k hours. I would expect the Deutz to be 5 to 10 k hours if you don't let the cooler clog up with debris (grass etc) and overheat it. At those hours the machine will be pretty loose.
The pics you seen of pumps on both sides are old, they are stacked (tram pump drives PTO pump drives steering/hyd pump) all off the opposite of the fan side of engine and this is how I have seen all manufactures do it.

MossRoad · Oct 27, 2019

I can't recall who did it now, but many years ago a TBN member had a PT425. They bought just the backhoe attachment for the PT2425 and mounted a quick attach plate to it, then used it on the FEL arms of the PT425.

m5040 · Oct 28, 2019

That would be cool to see how it worked out for the owner over the years. The nice thing about the straight arm hoe (other then the price) is moving the material away, I don't think a full hoe could do more then pile it on on the side.

Hey Moss, I just noticed your cartoon picture of the 425 at the center of your post changes the attachments as you watch. Nice!

MossRoad · Oct 28, 2019

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m5040 said:
That would be cool to see how it worked out for the owner over the years. The nice thing about the straight arm hoe (other then the price) is moving the material away, I don't think a full hoe could do more then pile it on on the side.

Hey Moss, I just noticed your cartoon picture of the 425 at the center of your post changes the attachments as you watch. Nice!

Yes. I took a picture of my PT425 and then used Microsoft Paint to draw over it in colors. Then I free handed the attachments onto a copy of the original. I had some animated GIF maker, I think it was PaintShop Pro, and put in the original, and then each one with an attachment and gave it a few seconds delay between frames. hahahahaha man, that was 16-17 years ago. :laughing:

Pete1961 · Oct 31, 2019

MossRoad said:
I can't recall who did it now, but many years ago a TBN member had a PT425. They bought just the backhoe attachment for the PT2425 and mounted a quick attach plate to it, then used it on the FEL arms of the PT425.

This is the idea that I was trying (probably not to well) to say regarding the 'Bobcat skid steer' style mounting, I meant just this, a full backhoe with boom, dipper, swing, but carried on the front like a skid steer. Years ago I bought off this guy when he used to sell them on ebay for $50 (｣25 at the time) this plan - backhoe. Later owing to collaboration in redesigning another machine, I got hold of copies of his rivals- Cadplan & another. It would be interesting to know how the PT 425 loader arms stood up to carrying a hoe in this way
There is a pic here of the hoe mounted on one of his skid steer designs, hoe itself weighs 400 Lb when built. Gallery
It did occur to me I could adapt the design to do the 180 swing with a couple of overlapping arcs as in the Powerfab.
I think if though you have the full hoe on the rear full time, you can pile dirt on the side, turn round & transport it with the front bucket (if 4 in 1 you can even clam the last bit with no hand shovelling)

I did approach P-T over the drawbar pull of the T8 & T12 models, as yet no reply, Regarding the diesel it does seem a better buy, I did not know the life of a small (two Cyl?) diesel - but the 4 cyl Perkins in the JCB full size TBL I had was still fine at 8K hrs when I sold it. It did occur to me that it may be poss to repower the 25 hp gas Kohler in a used PT425 with say a Lombardini 2 cyl air cooled diesel - as Struck did this as an option vs. the Kohler 25 hp. Lombardini are now part of Kohler anyway but were not back then.
I am not sure from the videos of the max slope these little machines can climb, I did find this explanation of slopes described in different ways here Slope - Degree, Gradient and Grade Converter
Tracks are all very fine - but a capital sink to maintain over time. I do though remember a TD6 dozer spreading topsoil on a 1 in 2 - years later I measured this with an inclinometer - some buildings had been demolished with the walls left partly in place as below surface flying buttresses - this is how the 1 in 2 sustained over the years, as 1 in 3 the usual max for a self sustaining slope. A lot to think about - go new / used, PT245 or 2425 or indeed next size up

MossRoad · Oct 31, 2019

I had some plans for a towable backhoe and started building it many years ago with the intention of powering it with the PT hydraulics. However, my needs and priorities changed over time and it sits in my garage with maybe 10-20 hours left to complete it. I just don't have time to do the projects I once was going to do with it, and our priorities changed. Kids grew up. We may not build a house on our property now as we are kinda looking at lake cottages. Go figure. :confused3:

Kinda like thinking I could use a winch to haul out firewood... I thought it would be an asset and save me some work. However, I found the PT425 can pretty much drive into any wood I find on my property and grab it with the skidding tongs and I'm in and out in 30 seconds VS having to get off, drag in winch cable, get back to the unit, operate the winch, etc.... I talked myself out of a winch with $29 tongs! :laughing:

MossRoad · Oct 31, 2019

As for replacing a Kohler gas engine with a diesel, I think you'd have to find something in the 3600 rpm range to get the proper flow and PSI from the pumps.

As for carrying a 400# backhoe, the lift arms are rated at 800#, but I think that's at the QA plate. Move out a foot or two and the limit is reduces noticeably. The thing about a rear backhoe attachment on the FEL arms is that I think you'd want to lock the FEL arms at a level height and then set the outriggers. I'm not sure how that would work. If I get time, I'll look for the pictures of that member's setup.

The one I have on hold is a self-powered/self propelled unit that you were supposed to add 400# of ballast to the rear. I put a ring hitch on the end of it and a pintel hitch on a 2" receiver to use the PT425 for way more than 400# ballast. I think it would work fine as long as I didn't put twisting forces on the FEL arms.

Twisting force on the FEL arms is another subject. It's kinda hard to put twisting force on the FEL arms on the PT425 because the thing is so strong that you'd oscillate the unit rather than bending the arms if you put a twisting motion on them. There's lots of play in the oscillation, the pintel hitch, the ring hitch, so I think it would have been plenty strong if the outriggers were set securely.

m5040 · Oct 31, 2019

What do you intend to do with the hoe? I have a John Deere 310 but still bought a front hoe for my PT1430. I surely wouldn't want to do 1k' of trench with it, but for small jobs it is really nice to have, especially that it can dig, pick and carry (again without damage to turf). I don't know if it is right or wrong, but one way I use mine is like a scraper, I set the angle of the bucket and back up 6' or so and it fills the bucket, and digs a 1-2" trench each time. The PT video shows them cut in by curling the bucket which is the way I did it the first time I ever used a tractor/loader/backhoe (I didn't know you were supposed to use the crowd cylinder).
I have the smallest PT made, 180. I contemplate putting a diesel in it because it drinks a lot of gas when mowing. I think the way to go is air cooled diesel if you can find one. But I might try something I pickup that is in good condition but priced right. I hate the thought of cutting and extending the tub, but that would help the stability.

MossRoad · Oct 31, 2019

I think I'd find a used Toro Groundsmaster and mow with that before I'd hack up my beloved PT425. :laughing:

MossRoad · Oct 31, 2019

As for the hoe, my original intentions were to dig out several hundred, maybe a thousand small tree stumps in a 6 acre field that I mistakenly let go wild, thinking it would be great. It wasn't. Wild cherry took over everything and in 18 years it's a mono forest of useless wood. But now I'm just cutting them down, leaving the stumps tall enough so I can see them, and stacking the trees to the sides. No need to dig them out. Nature will rot them out in 10 years.

I got all the steel for the hoe for free. All I need to do is cut off the temp tires, install some permanent tires, and fab up some outriggers. Then either build or buy a bucket. Anyhoe... hahaha it'll have to wait.

Pete1961 · Nov 1, 2019

The reason the Lombardini conversions have worked well on the Struck belt drives is this : - The stock gas engines are 13 or 16 hp & max revs of 3600. The torque curve on these gas engines give peak torque @ 2500. The tractor is single speed & max 3.1 mph, so about 2 mph @ engine peak torque.
The Lombardini is 3600 rpm max, same torque output BUT max torque is developed @ 1800 rpm with good torque in the 1600 to 2000 band. Thus the tractor now develops its max torque @ 1.5 mph - much more usable, to say nothing of the fuel saved & the bit extra weight helps traction. SAE bolt circle & shaft same for both engines. Has been done on the Mag junior & RS 1000 with good results I am told.
Granted this is not an issue for the P-T with a variable pump transmission, all you would gain is less fuel used & maybe? a longer engine life than the 2000 hr gas motor.
As to what I would do with a P-T - well small scale commercial landscaping / garden works (as I do now with rented mini excavator & mini dumper) The ability of some forks work moving slabs etc a bonus. The plow thing would be largely a once a year thing on my own land, another bonus but not the main reason for owning.
I do have a towable I am working on but it has been butchered by a past owner in the swing area, destroying its balance. I have at last got together the info/measurements for the missing part to convert back, Have made full scale wooden 3D mock up of kingpost & boom area to prove success. Should look like this at bottom of page when finished, machine owned by Shaun is closest
Gopher towable diggers, Manor excavators, backhoes
I need a pinion for my big lathe to go further - Pic to follow of how machine currently is to follow when I find one.

Pete1961 · Nov 1, 2019

Hopefully Pic of machine - the swing system of a cat 2 3pt Twose hoe was fitted - bringing the swing post 20'' forward. This means the rear wheels barely stay on ground - I have the original underfloor swing cyls & chain. Also the driver no longer swings behind the hoe as a 'living counterweight'
The Deere 310 looks a nice machine, about on a par with a Case 580? Deere used to manufacture in Mannheim Germany - but no longer sell construction range at all in Europe - pity

m5040 · Jun 9, 2020

PT180 Hyd filter change, rest gauge

It is 2 weeks before the 1 year anniversary for my PT180 and it came up to the 50 hr filter change. While I was at it, I installed a restriction gauge to monitor the filter health. This time I used a better fluid filled gauge. No pretty red/yellow/green but the needle holds nice and steady. When I finished it was a cold start at 70 deg ambient temp. The first pick shows restriction with new filter at idle, 2nd pic shows at high idle. Interesting the 3rd pic shows the restriction after 1 hour use and the oil temp at 160 deg. I would have thought it would have been lower then the cold start.

Just figure I would mention again, but I pulled the magnet I tether to the filler cap and wiped it off with a clean paper-towel, see what the pic showed of debris collected on the magnet.

Also I pulled the spark plugs out to assist with bleeding the tram (so the starter doesn't have to overcome the compression). I found it somewhat concerning that the threads seemed to have carbon deposits indicating the plug projects into the cylinder. Can that be? I would have thought they should be flush. Anyway, I put some neversieze on the plugs and buttoned it up for the next 50 hrs.

cqaigy2 · Jun 9, 2020

Interesting. Thanks.

Woodbutcher56 · Oct 12, 2020

I have been lurking on this forum for about 1 year waiting for an opportunity to buy a used PT. This past spring I finally found a 2005 PT2430 without a backhoe and as soon as I got it home I started making some minor modifications for the uses I had for it based upon ideas I gleaned from the wisdom of this group. This PT came with the light material bucket but I wanted to be able to dig with it so I cut about 10" off the front of the bucket, reinforced it and added a homemade toothbar. Then I purchased a grapple from greens machine and added it to the bucket. It worked so well I decided to make mounts for the forks as well so I could move the grapple from the bucket to the forks. I then found that without the backhoe the rear end would lift off the ground with a full bucket so I tapped into the hydraulics and made a rear 3 point hitch and a weight box that can also haul my chainsaws, mauls and etc. I also added a harbor freight water proof ammo box to use as a tool box for chains, splitting wedges and etc. We heat our house with wood so I then made a log splitter to attach to the fel and plumbed the pto through a valve to run it. It works well for splitting the large pieces that are too hard to wrestle under my tow behind vertical splitter.