Update on my pole barn project
- Thread starter rick1ryan
- Start date
- Views: 18826
747driver
Veteran Member
You somehow have to get the frame braced before going any farther. That big of a building will move allot with no bracing even in a light wind. Builders will always brace the frame work as they put up the walls.and leave them up until they get the sheating or siding installed. As Loaderman 22 said...put the X braces on the inside of the frame that way they won't be in the way as you put the siding up. We all have a schedule we like to use in building, but sometimes what you plan to do tomorrow or the week-end can turn into a week or 2 later. Getting a building back to square due to racking is a pain in the arse !
Forgive the obvious newbie questions............is it okay to use 2X4s for the cross-bracing? If I calculate it correctly, I can cut 2X4X12s to 11'6" and 30 degree angles to fit. Then, do that at all 4 corners. Is that correct or do I need more? BTW, I don't remember if I posted any pics of the finished product.
Loaderman22
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,103
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
- Tractor
- 1947 Ford 2N, 75 MF 30B, 75 Swinger Loader, 1979 Cat D3
2x4's are very strong used this way, I wouldn't even cut them, just hold the 12 footers diagonally and throw some 3" - 3-1/2" nails or similar construction screws in each end. Then bow the corresponding half of the "X" right over the other, doesn't have to be pretty, just on there good & tight. (Do NOT use drywall screws, they are not strong enough) Then you have 2x4x12's you can use later for whatever once your siding is all done.
This is the best image I could find quick on the ol' interwebs.
747driver
Veteran Member
Loaderman22 has your answer ! Happy bracing.....
two_bit_score
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2008
- Messages
- 12,518
- Tractor
- John Deere 110 TLB, Diamond C 19LPX GN trailer
You don't give a location but those trusses look like the kind used in poultry house in East Texas. The building looks like it could be the beginning of a poultry house.
Very nice! Hope to see the pictures of the finished product.
TBS
It's in Alabama and it definitely will not be a chicken house. The intention is to use this as an event center for wedding receptions.
BTW, not sure if I mentioned it but the State Fire Marshal called me this week and says they're now requiring architectural drawings for venues like this. They've never done it in the past but now they are. Caused me a couple of days of stress but I've located someone. There goes another unexpected $1,000.......
two_bit_score
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2008
- Messages
- 12,518
- Tractor
- John Deere 110 TLB, Diamond C 19LPX GN trailer
I’m sure it will be a beautiful wedding venue! The setting appears to be naturally beautiful. A lot of buildings share similar construction elements in basic design and construction.
TBS
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Looking at the design of your building, the fact that the poles are set in the ground, and that the trusses are tied into the posts, and that the roof is already on, I see no reason to start adding bracing to this structure. All those components of the structure tie it together to hold it in place.
From what I've read in the comments, the confusion seems to be in how a stud wall is built, instead of how a pole barn is built. Think more along the lines of how a gazebo is engineered.
Diagonal bracing will reduce the amount of movement that you will have in the structure. Does it need this? Not at this time, because there isn't anything to worry about. No sheetrock, now doors or windows, nothing is going anywhere. Why install something that isn't needed? Once you build your walls and get your siding on the exterior, that will create more sheer strength then diagonal bracing. To me, the bracing issue is a distraction that doesn't need to be addressed.
From what I've read in the comments, the confusion seems to be in how a stud wall is built, instead of how a pole barn is built. Think more along the lines of how a gazebo is engineered.
Diagonal bracing will reduce the amount of movement that you will have in the structure. Does it need this? Not at this time, because there isn't anything to worry about. No sheetrock, now doors or windows, nothing is going anywhere. Why install something that isn't needed? Once you build your walls and get your siding on the exterior, that will create more sheer strength then diagonal bracing. To me, the bracing issue is a distraction that doesn't need to be addressed.
747driver
Veteran Member
Its called 'temporary' bracing until you get the siding or sheating installed. Then you take it off when siding is finished. To each is own....but I don't want the frame to rack back and forth while putting the siding on.
dragoneggs
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2013
- Messages
- 14,548
- Location
- Seabeck, Washington
- Tractor
- Kubota BX-25D, Kubota Z122RKW-42
Not knowing the kind of winds you get but I'm kind of in Eddie's camp on the need or lack there of, for bracing. Surely can't hurt though if you were to diagonal brace the four sections on the ends if it is going to go unfinished for an extended amount of time.
Loaderman22
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,103
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
- Tractor
- 1947 Ford 2N, 75 MF 30B, 75 Swinger Loader, 1979 Cat D3
I understand the posts are in the ground, and they are quite stout & attached to the roof at the top, however if wind hits the roof at one corner and wants to twist the building a litle, then the little steel brackets holding the steel rafters to the posts can bend. A little temp bracing and that will at least limit the travel of the tops of the posts. Is it unnecessary, or overkill, maybe, I am not a structural engineer, but for the minimal cost of 8 or so 2x12's, I wouldn't want to take the chance. The higher up the top of the "x"s are mounted the better as the bottom of the posts obviously can't go anywhere, so it's the tops you are trying to stabilize. If you are going to use 2x6's for wall studs, you can use them for the blocking & just take them out as you finish a section & reuse them on the next. The remaining 24" off cut makes great blocking for the siding. You want to see how wind can effect things, watch a video of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge.
aczlan
Good Morning
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,540
- Tractor
- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
All the pole barns that I have seen put up in recent history have had more bracing than that, they have all had bracing going up from the uprights to the header on every post even though most of them had siding put up the same day as the poles went up.
At very least, I would put 1 or 2 2x4s on the inside of each end section. Either make an X at each end, or have them slant in opposite directions (ie: |\| | | |/|, |/| | | |\| or |X| | | |X| )
Aaron Z
I'm perhaps going about this backwards but I installed the wood panels for the outside (road-facing) wall over the weekend. Had help on Saturday and got 2/3 of the 90ft done and then did the last 1/3 by myself, yesterday. Man, what a killer. I ended up attaching 3, 2X6X10 to the outside of the poles (bottom-mid-top) then a 4'X8', 5/8" wood panel on top of that. On each panel I put screws every 8" wide with 3 runs (horizontal) per sheet. I did also install 9' house wrap between the outer wall and the poles. I do plan on putting X braces on each corner but I'm out of time this trip (I live in Nashville, the barn is in Alabama) and will have to do it next trip. I'd originally planned on putting drywall on the inside but I think I'm going to use the same wood panels as the outside, then paint them white. I'm hoping to have concrete poured in the next couple of weeks, after which I'll close in the ends and other long side. Here's an updated pic. Comments/suggestions welcome.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
With 3 purlins attached to the posts, does that mean your plywood is attached at the top, bottom and the middle? or more importantly, there is a four foot span from purlin to purlin for your plywood?
This is really confusing. How will you keep the weather out, or stop water from getting through the edges of your plywood?
Will there be any windows on that wall?
This is really confusing. How will you keep the weather out, or stop water from getting through the edges of your plywood?
Will there be any windows on that wall?
It's about 40" inches between the stud boards. The panels overlap, so it has a good seal. Besides that, there's also house wrap underneath the panels. I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to keep the weather out.
747driver
Veteran Member
Looks nice ! Is that T111 siding ? Since there is only 3 girts installed you will have a 4' seam at the vertical joints not supported ? I would install 2x4s ( vertical ) at the seams to tighten and support that seam otherwise that seam joint will probably open up. At the top you going to install the same siding to close it up ? If so put the metal Z channel flashing on top between the 2 pieces of siding. Keeps water out and dresses up the joint. Now the fun part in painting it !!!
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I hope you're right, but in my experience, when purlins are 24 inches on center, the overlap still leaks and allows water to get behind the boards, which causes them to rot out. Not every seam, but enough of them that it's a common problem.
Are you going to caulk the seams and paint the siding?
Yes, it's T111, 8" seams. To be totally transparent, I'm not overly concerned about whether this siding lasts forever or not. If I can get 5 years out of it, I'll be thrilled. The whole venue project is still unknown as to whether it will actually book, this far out in the country. If it does, then money will be no issue and I can always come back and reinstall something more permanent, like Hardie board. For now, I just need to get something functional, as cheaply as I can. I'm really pretty pleased with how it's looking, and the builders did an excellent job on their pole installs. We only had to cut a handful of boards and the walls are very straight both vertical and horizontal. I'm wondering, do you think these panels will help in building stability? It's about 22 panels used on this one wall. I used 4" construction screws to anchor the studs to the poles then 2.5" screws to anchor the panels to the studs. I'd say there's about 18-20 screws in every panel. As far as water, keep in mind also that I have 2' of roof overhang. Doesn't help in a blowing rain but that just doesn't happen much on this mountain.
