Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[hunt4570]

Yes, that will determine what is locked up. Make sure when you raised the skids the bolt isn't hitting the drum or debris cutter on the inside of the side panel. I don't have a caroni, but undo what you recently did. I bet it is there.

Yeah, the skid bolts don't get anywhere near anything, I checked..

I guess I'll try getting those belts off and go from there...

 

[JimCan]

Sorry, Hunt... I have not had that issue with my Caroni, but I have a question...

The rear roller has what I would call a 'scraper bar'. I could not figure if that was a help or hinderance. I took a clamp and secured it to the top underside and run without it; I cannot see a difference? Does it have a specific purpose?

BTW: after the 2 or 3rd season, my fallow pasture looks great. ...no more massive clumps or dead zones I got with a couple of rotary mowers I ran for years.

Jim

 

[hunt4570]

Sorry, Hunt... I have not had that issue with my Caroni, but I have a question...

The rear roller has what I would call a 'scraper bar'. I could not figure if that was a help or hinderance. I took a clamp and secured it to the top underside and run without it; I cannot see a difference? Does it have a specific purpose?

BTW: after the 2 or 3rd season, my fallow pasture looks great. ...no more massive clumps or dead zones I got with a couple of rotary mowers I ran for years.

Jim

I think that scraper is just to keep stuff from wrapping around that roller, I've never had a problem with it and it keeps my roller clean. Why don't you like it doing its job?

Yeah, I think this is my 4th season (maybe 5th) and I like the way it works. The thing I miss about a rotary mower is the ability to back up and cram it under a tree or something..

 

[hunt4570]

Ok, so I took the belts back off my Caroni and determined the rotor was the part locked up, the top (drive) pulleys turned fine. So I was envisioning the worst, tore up bearing and or race etc! Seemed awful quick to go that bad that fast but...

So I raised it way up and propped it up so I could crawl around under there and have a look. Talk about a fluke, or some sort of cosmic interference, But one set of knives on the very outside of the rotor flipped around and jammed against the outside of the housing and the flange that holds the rotor in and locked everything up!!!!! has anyone ever seen this happen before?

Boy oh boy, you talk about jammed tight!! So I got out a BFH and a couple chisels a couple prybars and I got after it. Try as I might I could not pry it loose! I was able to rotate the rotor around so I could get at it and started to loosen the bolt holding the knives. Well it was jammed so tight after getting the nut off I still couldn't get the bolt to move! Well banging and prying and messing with it finally it just almost magically all fell loose!
So I put the belts back on buttoned everything up and took it for a spin. Everything seems to work fine, it sounds a bit different but I'm just blaming that on those 3 shiney new belts..

 

[Lnk]

Good work, now stop messing around and get mowing. Let us know how she does, with them skid held high.

 

[Xfaxman]

Well rats!! What have I done now??

So I went mowing a little bit and it seemed like it had a new squeal so I came back and readjusted the belts a little looser. When I started it back up and engaged the PTO it made a big racket so I quick shut it down. New belts look fine, I disconnected the PTO shaft and it seems to be locked up, tried turning over with the belt pully by hand and it wont budge!
I'm pretty religious about greasing it all the time, and the gearbox is up to the line...

Whatcha think , and where do I go first?

I'm thinking taking the belts off and that should narrow it down to the rotor or the drive, yes?

Ok, so I took the belts back off my Caroni and determined the rotor was the part locked up, the top (drive) pulleys turned fine. So I was envisioning the worst, tore up bearing and or race etc! Seemed awful quick to go that bad that fast but...

So I raised it way up and propped it up so I could crawl around under there and have a look. Talk about a fluke, or some sort of cosmic interference, But one set of knives on the very outside of the rotor flipped around and jammed against the outside of the housing and the flange that holds the rotor in and locked everything up!!!!! has anyone ever seen this happen before?

-------------------------------------

Never seen or heard of this before. Don't think loosening the belts would cause it.

I would put a light weight nylon or aluminum washer on the bolt so the knives can't flip up there again.

 

[hunt4570]

Good work, now stop messing around and get mowing. Let us know how she does, with them skid held high.

I did , I mowed for an hour or so after... mower worked fine and I saw NO evidence of skid marks around! And I only raised them one inch!

 

[hunt4570]

Never seen or heard of this before. Don't think loosening the belts would cause it.

I would put a light weight nylon or aluminum washer on the bolt so the knives can't flip up there again.

Yeah, I don't think the belts had anything to do with this development just coincidence in timing. I've been running this thing for 4 years and never had this happen before, just a freak occurrence I believe, just weird!

 

[John0829]

Finally got to see if sharpening the slicers helped the 918H and I am sad to report it made no difference at all. I went though all 96 slicers and turned the best side toward the direction of cut and sharp enough to shave with. If I make two cuts, one going each direction it will cleanup the tire track but what good is a mower you have to cut the same patch of grass twice to get it to look right. Here are a few pics showing what it is doing, grass was cut one week ago, well 8 days because of rain and as can be seen not deep. Iwant to like this type of mower but right now the disappointment factor is nearing the end of the scale.

 

[Lnk]

Finally got to see if sharpening the slicers helped the 918H and I am sad to report it made no difference at all. I went though all 96 slicers and turned the best side toward the direction of cut and sharp enough to shave with. If I make two cuts, one going each direction it will cleanup the tire track but what good is a mower you have to cut the same patch of grass twice to get it to look right. Here are a few pics showing what it is doing, grass was cut one week ago, well 8 days because of rain and as can be seen not deep. Iwant to like this type of mower but right now the disappointment factor is nearing the end of the scale.

Since lawn is what you are cutting, you probably should get scoop knives. Side slicer are decent enough for both rough and grass, but not great at either. They also don't move much air. Scoop knives have a flat face, and cause a lot more turbulence under the mower, which helps to stand the grass up to be cut. What time of day did you mow? Looks like a nice flat piece of land. Must not be near me.

 

[John0829]

Since lawn is what you are cutting, you probably should get scoop knives. Side slicer are decent enough for both rough and grass, but not great at either. They also don't move much air. Scoop knives have a flat face, and cause a lot more turbulence under the mower, which helps to stand the grass up to be cut. What time of day did you mow? Looks like a nice flat piece of land. Must not be near me.

I am in Western KY about 2 hours east of Louisville near Owensboro. Flat? If only you knew, stub your toe outside the house and pick yourself up at the bottom of a long hill. Myself and my neighbor have some places so steep you have to prop your feet on the dash to stay in the seat. I would kill for a level piece of ground.

I attempted to cut this at around 4 pm. but after seeing there was no improvement I became so disgusted I just quit. I really want to figure this out, others have talked about how nice a cut they got from the 918 what is it I am doing wrong? It can't be rocket science or maybe it is and I am to dumb to recognise it as such.

Where can scoop knives be found for the 918H? Flailmasters is the only place I have found any blades/parts listed for the 918 and they only have the side slicers. Is there some other brand/model flail blade that can be substituted? Or should I figure this mower was a mistake and find it a new home?

Probably will put the finish mower on today to finish up this weeks mowing.

 

[leonz]

Hello and good morning John0829,

Please refresh my memory; is your flail mower set up with knife mounting stations that are narrow in width or is it using a D or V ring knife hanger?

You can find the ford 917 scoop knife blades on page 23 of the flail master catalog.

The scoop knives for the ford 917 in the clean cutter catalog are FN220398
As long as the mounting dimensions are identical they will fit the 918 models as long as the scoop knives can be mounted in each row with out them touching from side to side in each row AND the following rows overlap the open sections of the preceding row that do not have a cutting edge.

Please do not get discouraged we want to help you. Do your current knives have elongated mounting holes using D ring hanger loops or the narrow V type hanger loops?

If the side slicer knives cannot become air foils/airplane wings they will not cut level. A nearby ford New Holland tractor dealer, Clean Cutter or Flail Master will have the model 917 scoop knives if that is what you wish to change them to.

I see in your uploaded images that you have a rooster tail of unmown grass you apparently have a knife pair that is jammed up and unable to swivel.

If you cannot slice notebook paper with the sharpened knife edge they are not sharp -yes I am fussy that is why I like wet well grinders as they keep the edge cool and as a result sharp just like the grinding stones that are foot driven with water wells that pull the water up and over the stone as it grinds the cutting edge.

Please do not get discouraged my friend we are here to help you. you have a beautiful piece of American high quality workmanship. A very small unnoticed thing for the new owner/new user is the rooster tail/mohawk can make things not mow right and it is easily corrected by checking the knife hangers and a slower mowing speed.

Mowing in a spiral pattern is also a big help if it is safely possible to do so with your terrain

No worries, we are here to help you as many "Flail Mower Nation" resident members have the 917 and 918 flail mowers.

 

[vlcakc]

The Flailmaster catalog has illustrations of the 917 and 918H blades. Flailmaster part number for the 917 one piece blade (scoop blade) is FM-220398 and the part number for the 918H standard (Y-blade or side slicer as leonz prefers) is FM-620080. The blade and hangar designs are quite different and do not directly interchange. Can other type blades be adapted for the 918H? I don't know. I did some internet searching and never came up with a direct replacement. Since I was getting satisfactory results with the standard 918H blades not a lot more time was spent researching.

Will a scoop type blade give a smoother cut? Possibly. I recently changed the Y-blades on the Land Pride FM2584 flail I now own to hammer blades for a pasture brush clearing project. Even though Land Pride doesn't specifically recommend hammer blades for finish mowing, I was pleasantly surprised at the smooth test cut on a lawn area. I can personally attest that the Land Pride FM2584 with Y-blades does not have enough pairs of blades to give a satisfactory cut on residential lawn areas. Vic

 

[Lnk]

I am in Western KY about 2 hours east of Louisville near Owensboro. Flat? If only you knew, stub your toe outside the house and pick yourself up at the bottom of a long hill. Myself and my neighbor have some places so steep you have to prop your feet on the dash to stay in the seat. I would kill for a level piece of ground.

I attempted to cut this at around 4 pm. but after seeing there was no improvement I became so disgusted I just quit. I really want to figure this out, others have talked about how nice a cut they got from the 918 what is it I am doing wrong? It can't be rocket science or maybe it is and I am to dumb to recognise it as such.

Where can scoop knives be found for the 918H? Flailmasters is the only place I have found any blades/parts listed for the 918 and they only have the side slicers. Is there some other brand/model flail blade that can be substituted? Or should I figure this mower was a mistake and find it a new home?

Probably will put the finish mower on today to finish up this weeks mowing.

Can you take a picture of your rotor? That would give us all the info we need to help you.

 

[Xfaxman]

Can you take a picture of your rotor? That would give us all the info we need to help you.

He did, #5873: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/118882-lets-talk-flail-mowers-147.html#post5428677

 

[Lnk]

He did, #5873: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/118882-lets-talk-flail-mowers-147.html#post5428677

Thanks Xffaxman, missed it. I am not sure scoops will work on that. Looks like spacers keep side slicer hanging straight down. If you were to catch a corner of a scoop on something it would twist or damage the mount. I am sorry, but you might be able to sell it and purchase a different mower that could accept scoops.

 

[vlcakc]

The challenge to adapting a scoop blade to the NH 918H is to find one that has the correct length and has or can be altered to have a 9/16" diameter round mounting hole for the through bolt. The original Y-blades were about 4-5/8" long. I no longer have any 918H blades so cannot furnish the "Center of mounting hole To Blade tip" dimension. The "U" shaped blade mounting bracket that is welded to the rotor is pretty robust and uses IIRC a 1/2" diameter Gr 5 or 8 hex bolt to mount the blades. Depending on the thickness of the scoop blade mounting surface, spacer washers may or may not be required. Vic

 

[John0829]

The challenge to adapting a scoop blade to the NH 918H is to find one that has the correct length and has or can be altered to have a 9/16" diameter round mounting hole for the through bolt. The original Y-blades were about 4-5/8" long. I no longer have any 918H blades so cannot furnish the "Center of mounting hole To Blade tip" dimension. The "U" shaped blade mounting bracket that is welded to the rotor is pretty robust and uses IIRC a 1/2" diameter Gr 5 or 8 hex bolt to mount the blades. Depending on the thickness of the scoop blade mounting surface, spacer washers may or may not be required. Vic

You are correct the blades are 4-9/16" or 4-5/8" long and are held on by 12MM Gr 10.8 bolts (close enough to 1/2" to call it that for those who don't do metric). I have searched for blades using the dimensions of the OEM blades to see if I could find something I could adapt with the same results as you gents have had. All the blades are SHARP and free swinging none are in anyway snug or binding, turning the rotor by hand all fall vertical as they get near the bottom of the rotation. As for mowing speed the manual calls for a max of 5 mph and the cut made in the pics was at 3 mph and of course at 540 PTO rpm. For whatever reason it just refuses to cut the tire track no matter how slow the speed of travel.

I really do appreciate all the suggestions and ideas, bound to stumble upon the answer at some point.

 

[D2Cat]

Maybe the cut problem could be as simple as the grass is too wet.

 

[Fallon]

My old 917 with Ys & the new Peruzzo with hammers (basically 5lbs scoops) both leave tire tracks. Usually most of the tracks get mowed, but it's still visible. I generally mow with the Peruzzo offset most of the way to the right & keep the left tires on the previously mowed pass. That minimizes the stripes.