Three point valve broken!!!

[duanew1]

I think the vertical finger that presses on the spool pin is supposed to rotate freely on the pin that it rides on.

This is exactly correct. By welding the arm to the end of the rod, the feedback mechanism was negated. You will need the shaft with the pin on the end and the rectangular rod if yours cannot be salvaged. I knew the problem had to be in that area.

 

[Indirocz28]

This is exactly correct. By welding the arm to the end of the rod, the feedback mechanism was negated. You will need the shaft with the pin on the end and the rectangular rod if yours cannot be salvaged. I knew the problem had to be in that area.

I cut it apart, ground all the junk off, cut down a bolt that was the same size, welded it to the bottom of the shaft (luckily the original flat spot was still there!), and welded a nut on the other side protruding through the finger.
I’ll put the rest of the tractor back together tomorrow, however, my next questions are to do with position and angle of the tab that the feedback lever is driven by on the side of the 3pt arm.

After looking at some pictures, I’m not 100% that mine is exactly correct. I think it’s close, but not quite right.

 

[duanew1]

It is hard to say where the adjustment on the feedback arm should be with the possible changes in geometry from the welding. You will have to play with the length of the linkage to make sure you have full movement.

I am interested to see how this works out.

 

[winston1]

It is hard to say where the adjustment on the feedback arm should be with the possible changes in geometry from the welding. You will have to play with the length of the linkage to make sure you have full movement.

I am interested to see how this works out.

Me too.

 

[California]

Me too. But at this point I would just buy used components from Hoye to get it back to original specs.

 

[careyo63]

Had to set mine up if I understand you correctly about the same way Ken. But I had and have some serious wear on mine. There is more welding than what is on the Lift arm Height Adj. limiter.
Been like this for over 10yrs. Drop rate sets correctly stays up perfect running so it is what it is for me. It will drop but it's so small I just drop it down or lock it when I shut it off. So that's easily overcome.. Plus if recall It wasn't the correct spring IMO.. It was loose by 1/8" in any position so I had to cut it and shorten it............

 

[clemsonfor]

Had to set mine up if I understand you correctly about the same way Ken. But I had and have some serious wear on mine. Been like this for over 10yrs. Drop rate sets correctly stays up perfect running so it is what it is for me. It will drop but it's so small I just drop it down or lock it when I shut it off. So that's easily overcome.. Plus if recall It wasn't the correct spring. It was loose in any position so I had to cut it and shorten it............

The new valve from Hoye that I got when the tractor is shut off it drops at the rate of about an inch or 2 a second when the tractor is off with the 5 ft bush hog on it. It's a lightish duty Bush Hog (actual brand) Razorback

 

[clemsonfor]

Me too. But at this point I would just buy used components from Hoye to get it back to original specs.

Exactly what I would do, personally. I'd just quit fooling with it, and put my time in many of the other projects that I have to do.

 

[careyo63]

The new valve from Hoye that I got when the tractor is shut off it drops at the rate of about an inch or 2 a second when the tractor is off with the 5 ft bush hog on it. It's a lightish duty Bush Hog (actual brand) Razorback

Really I only have a shortened spring. Well I can live with that. And have to but not going there. :laughing:

 

[California]

View attachment 577121
View attachment 577122

I think I have figured out the problem.
I think the vertical finger that presses on the spool pin is supposed to rotate freely on the pin that it rides on. Since my finger was broken and welded to the control shaft, I think that is causing it to basically be backwards of what it is supposed to be. For instance, in this picture Clemson posted, and Ken痴 nearly identical, thier arms are down, the lever is forward, and the finger is back.

On mine, lever is forward, arms are down, but the finger is forward.

Please excuse the welds and cut, I cut the welds earlier to play with it and tack it back in place in different positions. This is when I came to realize it痴 kind of moving backwards.

Just buy used parts and get it back to stock!

I went and took photos but they don't reveal the monkey-motion that the vertical finger goes through. Think of a Cobra standing up, weaving forward and back in an S motion.

The rod over from the hand lever has a small-diameter rod welded to it on the lower back side and that little rod goes (loosely) through a hole in the finger. The rod coming from the left that senses the position of the 3-point arms, contacts the back side of the finger higher up. So under various conditions the lower or upper end of the finger is being pushed/pulled by one or the other. The finger floats, its not directly connected to either rod.

If something has been welded solid you would never get it back to duplicating that motion. Some engineer woke up from a stoner dream and wrote down that design! :confused2:

Here's your photo again, to help visualize what I described. My photos weren't any more useful than this. I'll note the maximum gap I saw between finger and piston was less than a spark plug gap so maybe .025. And the two nuts on the feedback rod aren't at the end like this photo, there is about a half inch of threads sticking out - same as one of the factory drawings I posted above.

 

[clemsonfor]

Just buy used parts and get it back to stock!

I went and took photos but they don't reveal the monkey-motion that the vertical finger goes through. Think of a Cobra standing up, weaving forward and back in an S motion.

The rod over from the hand lever has a small-diameter rod welded to it on the lower back side and that little rod goes (loosely) through a hole in the finger. The rod coming from the left that senses the position of the 3-point arms, contacts the back side of the finger higher up. So under various conditions the lower or upper end of the finger is being pushed/pulled by one or the other. The finger floats, its not directly connected to either rod.

If something has been welded solid you would never get it back to duplicating that motion. Some engineer woke up from a stoner dream and wrote down that design! :confused2:

Here's your photo again, to help visualize what I described. My photos weren't any more useful than this. I'll note the maximum gap I saw between finger and piston was less than a spark plug gap so maybe .025. And the two nuts on the feedback rod aren't at the end like this photo, there is about a half inch of threads sticking out - same as one of the factory drawings I posted above.

Do you have a youtube account and a smart phone? You can make a video of the motion as you pull the 3 pt arm foward and back. BUT I do still agree with just buying the correct angle factory parts.

 

[California]

No youtube, and I'm not willing to host video on my personal website (from before youtube etc) for this when the problem isn't adjusting what he has. The solution is get it back to stock. Then it will work fine, as designed. The guy who welded it before he bought it messed it up irretrievably.

 

[careyo63]

Every were you point out "lube" is were I have serious Wear. There is more welding on mine than you can see. I had to give mine a lot of thought but after figuring out what was going on it was an easy fix. I can't to the day understand why all the welding. I thought the same after realizing it. Must of been the good stuff alright................:laughing:

 

[Indirocz28]

I have a ticket in to Aaron to see if they have the control handle rod and finger laying around.

My 吐ix last night has the 3 point now coming up when the handle is down, but by golly, it is freaking working. Just backwards.
It is definitely going to be hard to get the pin for that the finger rides on at the right area of the shaft to rotate correctly.

 

[duanew1]

I believe the pin on the handle shaft should be toward the rear of the tractor when the handle is down. This should make the 3 point travel in the right direction.

 

[clemsonfor]

I believe the pin on the handle shaft should be toward the rear of the tractor when the handle is down. This should make the 3 point travel in the right direction.

Your right, that's what he originally figured out that his linkages were all messed up. He noticed it was reversed of what mine is in the pic.

 

[Indirocz28]

Okay, I’ve got it pretty close. I added a friction screw to the handle since there wasn’t one previously.

I am still getting fluid back through the loader valve unfortunately. I believe I am going to need to install a diverter or check valve inline on the inlet line to the 3pt control valve.

I know California’s YM240 has the diverter valve, those of you with the loader plumbing run the same way Hoye tells you to, without a diverter valve, does your system do this when working the loader?

 

[duanew1]

Okay, I’ve got it pretty close. I added a friction screw to the handle since there wasn’t one previously.

I am still getting fluid back through the loader valve unfortunately. I believe I am going to need to install a diverter or check valve inline on the inlet line to the 3pt control valve.

I know California’s YM240 has the diverter valve, those of you with the loader plumbing run the same way Hoye tells you to, without a diverter valve, does your system do this when working the loader?

It works! You have a lot of leakage of fluid past the seals somewhere for the 3 point to drop that fast.

 

[clemsonfor]

It works! You have a lot of leakage of fluid past the seals somewhere for the 3 point to drop that fast.

That's the way these new valves work. Mine drops the same way if I turn off the tractor with it in the air. I replaced my 3pt piston O ring a few years ago. If I lock the service valve it won't drop an inch in 2 days just as he said his acts. It's all that valve and the internals. It's not as tight as the yanmar ones I guess.

 

[Indirocz28]

That's the way these new valves work. Mine drops the same way if I turn off the tractor with it in the air. I replaced my 3pt piston O ring a few years ago. If I lock the service valve it won't drop an inch in 2 days just as he said his acts. It's all that valve and the internals. It's not as tight as the yanmar ones I guess.

Being that I can’t keep the seal in this replacement one, I’m going to put the original one back on today for more testing and adjusting.

Does anyone have any insight on the 3pt moving as I am operating the loader though? Do I need to install a check valve between the loader out and the inlet to the 3pt control?

Edit: I just reinstalled the factory valve, and it’s operation is more controllable than the replacement. While the 3pt with box blade still sinks down after I turn off the tractor, the speed valve is fully vertical, and the decent after engine off is much slower than in the video I posted last night with the Hoye valve.