atsah
Elite Member
I use FF every other year, seems to work for me..
Undercoating
- Thread starter LD1
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Al 2
Gold Member
"An outside the box suggestion is building a simple undercarriage wash system...some type of (maybe pex) grid with a pattern of directional sprinkler heads...don't know how practical it would be but flushing with fresh water is still the standard for a lot of marine (salt water) equipment... "
That's an idea if you have it in a heated garage every day with a large enough drain to take away the water and ice and the time to do it. You could just go to the car wash every day for $12.00 a day and then have just as much ice and salt on it when you got home. Doesn't work when it's below freezing for 4 or 5 months of the year.
Al
That's an idea if you have it in a heated garage every day with a large enough drain to take away the water and ice and the time to do it. You could just go to the car wash every day for $12.00 a day and then have just as much ice and salt on it when you got home. Doesn't work when it's below freezing for 4 or 5 months of the year.
Al
OP
LD1
Epic Contributor
Thats what I gathered in my research.
Just like the magnet things on fuel lines that claim 10-20% increase in MPG, or the fancy electric contraptions that claim to take just water, separate it into hydrogen and oxygen....then supply the engine for another 10-20% gain.
Just a load of crap.
On a side note....I ordered a 5-gal pail of FF from NAPA
Rustyiron
Super Member
Did you order their (FF makes one) sprayer?
I'd spray it asap (in the heat). I think it will help it flow during and even after it's applied. You'll also be able to watch/access it before your counting on it this winter.
You'll be surprised how far a gallon will "go" under a truck, but it's cheaper by the 5.:thumbsup:
I'd spray it asap (in the heat). I think it will help it flow during and even after it's applied. You'll also be able to watch/access it before your counting on it this winter.
You'll be surprised how far a gallon will "go" under a truck, but it's cheaper by the 5.:thumbsup:
/pine
Super Star Member
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- Mar 4, 2009
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- 15,763
If I was going to bother with making such a thing...I would spring for the $50 or so worth of hardware and have it run by a an old PC...as long as running water and compressed air were available it could be incorporated into some sort of paved or gravel apron...
compressed air could be used to purge remaining water from the grid after a wash...no freeze ups etc...
Park the truck etc on the apron and the PC could run the program and wash the undercarriage at whatever time intervals required automatically...
The piping and sprinkler heads would cost more than the computer and application hardware would cost...
just sayin...!
Rustyiron
Super Member
/pine, a friend of mine told me that a "washdown" system was an available option on a firetruck he was specking out. You are not that far outside the box:thumbsup:
4570Man
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- Crossville, TN
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- Kubota M59, Kubota L3800, Grasshopper 428D, Topkick dump truck, 3500 dump truck, 10 ton trailer, more lighter trailers.
How would you get any kind of decent coverage without sticking down any lower than the rest of the truck?
OP
LD1
Epic Contributor
But you think the krown is better?
I dont mind doing something more often....or as often as needed. Just want something that will work.
BLSXJ
Gold Member
the person doing the application, is more important then the product being applied.
Where I live they use, calcium, urea, salt and sand on the roads. the only thing I hvae going for me is "normally" once we get below freezing we stay there.
I bought new in 2011, and for the 1st 4 years I took it to the local Krown place. and every year I took it to Krown, I bought an extra spray can of the stuff, to cover up the spots they missed.
eventually I realized it was a pain take the spare out ,to take it to Krown, pay them $200, then come home, spray some more, then re-install the spare.
Now I have the proper spray gun, I buy a 5 gallon pail of stuff at napa (a dominion sure seal product) and a bunch of cheap rattle cans of stuff and I do it all my self, every year.
the truck is still rust free, and is in better shape then most of its siblings.
if you have the means and will... do it your self..you wont be happy any other way
Where I live they use, calcium, urea, salt and sand on the roads. the only thing I hvae going for me is "normally" once we get below freezing we stay there.
I bought new in 2011, and for the 1st 4 years I took it to the local Krown place. and every year I took it to Krown, I bought an extra spray can of the stuff, to cover up the spots they missed.
eventually I realized it was a pain take the spare out ,to take it to Krown, pay them $200, then come home, spray some more, then re-install the spare.
Now I have the proper spray gun, I buy a 5 gallon pail of stuff at napa (a dominion sure seal product) and a bunch of cheap rattle cans of stuff and I do it all my self, every year.
the truck is still rust free, and is in better shape then most of its siblings.
if you have the means and will... do it your self..you wont be happy any other way
Rustyiron
Super Member
I think you nailed it better than you may know! A vehicle owner actively involved with monitoring & inspecting the belly of his beast is part of the best rust prevention there is. :thumbsup:
sld
Veteran Member
We only get a couple months per year of salt on the roads in an average year. Sometimes less. I don't think any product out there will let you apply it and then never put forth any more effort.
Several times per year I crawl around the underside of my 2007 F250 and inspect for rust. If I find anything my usual application is simply Rustoleum Rust Convertor in a spray can. That stuff works great. The problem with spraying oils underneath is that you can never apply any paint. To me, a good application of paint lasts longer than anything else. As far as the nooks and crannies I always make sure the bottom of my doors are clean and the drain holes open.
Again, we are not a bad salt environment but we do get some every year. My truck is currently rust free and that makes me happy. Dealing with the issue up front and often is a good plan.
Several times per year I crawl around the underside of my 2007 F250 and inspect for rust. If I find anything my usual application is simply Rustoleum Rust Convertor in a spray can. That stuff works great. The problem with spraying oils underneath is that you can never apply any paint. To me, a good application of paint lasts longer than anything else. As far as the nooks and crannies I always make sure the bottom of my doors are clean and the drain holes open.
Again, we are not a bad salt environment but we do get some every year. My truck is currently rust free and that makes me happy. Dealing with the issue up front and often is a good plan.
Fallon
Super Member
They aren't snake oil, just in this application. Electrical systems fight galvanic corrosion. Similar to the magnesium anodes on boats. Dis-similar metals in an electrolyte. Rust on cars & trucks doesnt come from galvanic corrosion though. Iron oxide (rust) is something like 1.4 times the volume of iron. So as things rust the surface grows then spalls & flakes off to rust more.
Aluminum oxide is around 1.1 times the volume of aluminum, so doesnt end up expanding much. Not to mention aluminum oxide is basically ruby, saphire & the grit they use for good quality sanding grit. It's harder than plain aluminum. Spo basically aluminum "rust" protects aluminum better than paint or aluminum itself.
First, there is a total misconception out there about the difference between undercoating, and rustproofing. They are two totally different products for two different things.
Undercoating is a black asphalt based thick coating that either dries, or skins over. It is designed as the name says, to be used on the exposed underside of things, i.e. the floor, or frame.
Rustproofing is a thin generally wax based product/ Rustproofing is designed to coat the inside of panels, it comes in tan or black. It's thin, and mostly transparent.
Both products are needed to do both jobs, if you want to the best possible protection.
There are ways you can apply both of them, to the extent possible, yourself. This product, Amazon.com: RUSFRE Automotive Spray-On Rubberized Undercoating Material, 1-Gal. RUS-12F6: Automotive is the best undercoating I have seen, including professional products. It dries to an extent, so it doesn't get on you hands if you touch it. Use care to avoid spraying the exhaust system.
Ideally, you apply it with their sprayer. RUSFRE Deluxe Undercoating Spray Gun - TP Tools & Equipment Which sucks it right out of the bottle. But, you can use any cheap undercoating gun. One gallon will do the underside of any vehicle, Amazon.com: TCP Global Brand Pneumatic Air Undercoating Gun with Suction Feed Cup Also for Spraying Truck Bedliner and Rust Proofing Products: Automotive
It's a very messy job. You want to wear clothes you can throw away when you are done.
Rusfree also sells rustproofing in gallons. And, they have a long wand for their gun. But, it's 1/2" diameter.
A less expensive way to get rustproofing : Amazon.com: Transtar 4423 Amber Rustproofing - 17 oz.: Automotive. With the thin long nozzle extension, included, you can spray the inside bottoms of door, and hoods. through the weeping holes. Use care not to over apply, and clog the weep holes. Spray in multiple layers, rather than blowing the whole can in there at once. You can use a tooth pick to open the weep holes up if necessary. Some auto body supply stores have it, or the slightly more expensive 3m product. Beware, most counter clerks do not know the difference between undercoating, and rustproofing either.
With some disassembly, you can attempt to do the entire inside of most panels with the aerosol rustproofing.
But, the bottoms of the doors, and front edge of the hood, are very easy to do, and the most common areas you will actually need it.
Keep in mind, most manufacturers use foam, and insulation packs inside their panels now, which cause the rust you are trying to avoid, and make rustproofing most of the inside of fenders, and quarter panels impossible. So, you won't get too far trying to do 100% of your vehicle.
Undercoating is a black asphalt based thick coating that either dries, or skins over. It is designed as the name says, to be used on the exposed underside of things, i.e. the floor, or frame.
Rustproofing is a thin generally wax based product/ Rustproofing is designed to coat the inside of panels, it comes in tan or black. It's thin, and mostly transparent.
Both products are needed to do both jobs, if you want to the best possible protection.
There are ways you can apply both of them, to the extent possible, yourself. This product, Amazon.com: RUSFRE Automotive Spray-On Rubberized Undercoating Material, 1-Gal. RUS-12F6: Automotive is the best undercoating I have seen, including professional products. It dries to an extent, so it doesn't get on you hands if you touch it. Use care to avoid spraying the exhaust system.
Ideally, you apply it with their sprayer. RUSFRE Deluxe Undercoating Spray Gun - TP Tools & Equipment Which sucks it right out of the bottle. But, you can use any cheap undercoating gun. One gallon will do the underside of any vehicle, Amazon.com: TCP Global Brand Pneumatic Air Undercoating Gun with Suction Feed Cup Also for Spraying Truck Bedliner and Rust Proofing Products: Automotive
It's a very messy job. You want to wear clothes you can throw away when you are done.
Rusfree also sells rustproofing in gallons. And, they have a long wand for their gun. But, it's 1/2" diameter.
A less expensive way to get rustproofing : Amazon.com: Transtar 4423 Amber Rustproofing - 17 oz.: Automotive. With the thin long nozzle extension, included, you can spray the inside bottoms of door, and hoods. through the weeping holes. Use care not to over apply, and clog the weep holes. Spray in multiple layers, rather than blowing the whole can in there at once. You can use a tooth pick to open the weep holes up if necessary. Some auto body supply stores have it, or the slightly more expensive 3m product. Beware, most counter clerks do not know the difference between undercoating, and rustproofing either.
With some disassembly, you can attempt to do the entire inside of most panels with the aerosol rustproofing.
But, the bottoms of the doors, and front edge of the hood, are very easy to do, and the most common areas you will actually need it.
Keep in mind, most manufacturers use foam, and insulation packs inside their panels now, which cause the rust you are trying to avoid, and make rustproofing most of the inside of fenders, and quarter panels impossible. So, you won't get too far trying to do 100% of your vehicle.
WhiteRam
New member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2018
- Messages
- 22
- Tractor
- MF 1635
Krown, which is one of the best products on the market, is Petroleum based, not wax based.
FAQ
Best thing to do is buy the package deal of a Krown Salt eliminator (de-salt)with a rust proofing, they give a better price if you pay at once.
Get the de-salt wash done each May, get the rust proofing done during the hot summer months.
They remove the tail lights to spray inside the box walls, then drill & plug the lower door and corner of the sill where the rocker and cab meet so they can spray inside. No panels need to be removed.
For the minimal cost, it is not worth getting dirty doing. We used to do our own, not worth it.
FAQ
Best thing to do is buy the package deal of a Krown Salt eliminator (de-salt)with a rust proofing, they give a better price if you pay at once.
Get the de-salt wash done each May, get the rust proofing done during the hot summer months.
They remove the tail lights to spray inside the box walls, then drill & plug the lower door and corner of the sill where the rocker and cab meet so they can spray inside. No panels need to be removed.
For the minimal cost, it is not worth getting dirty doing. We used to do our own, not worth it.
crashz
Elite Member
I haven't tried Krown, but am a big fan of Fluid Film. Have done the last three truck with it and have graduated from cans (it takes at least 5 cans for a long bed pick-up) to the gallon containers. It does an amazing job, but you need to re-apply regularly.
I spray the trucks once a year, usually in the warmer parts of Fall as my winter prep. I cover the exhaust with old towels and go to town. The cans work good for the surgical stuff, the sprayer just blows it all over. As a previous poster mentioned, you will need to throw your clothes out and shower outside before going in. I avoid the brake areas, tires, bushings and rubber lines. Each year I find new areas to spray and protect. If you are really motivated, start taking things apart to get the spray into areas that aren't as accessible. Tail lights, the grill, bumpers, etc. If its metal and dull, I FF it. Shiny paint gets washed and waxed.
BTW - my first truck that I did this to was my 04 GMC. It plowed snow every winter as a driveway truck and back-up to commercial lots. When I traded it in 2012, it had zero rust.
I spray the trucks once a year, usually in the warmer parts of Fall as my winter prep. I cover the exhaust with old towels and go to town. The cans work good for the surgical stuff, the sprayer just blows it all over. As a previous poster mentioned, you will need to throw your clothes out and shower outside before going in. I avoid the brake areas, tires, bushings and rubber lines. Each year I find new areas to spray and protect. If you are really motivated, start taking things apart to get the spray into areas that aren't as accessible. Tail lights, the grill, bumpers, etc. If its metal and dull, I FF it. Shiny paint gets washed and waxed.
BTW - my first truck that I did this to was my 04 GMC. It plowed snow every winter as a driveway truck and back-up to commercial lots. When I traded it in 2012, it had zero rust.
OP
LD1
Epic Contributor
Havent done the truck yet. been just too busy.
But was gonna ask for details from those that do it on what to avoid and what to spray. I would like to spray the engine compartment as well. Because the old truck, had a lot of corrosion underhood. But didnt know how much to worry about getting it on fubbers, plastics, exhaust stuff, etc. Obviously I dont want to coat brake pads and rotors with it....but if a little gets on the exhaust is it a big deal? will it just burn off? Will it protect the exhaust? or will it catch the truck on fire going down the road?
BLSXJ
Gold Member
read the bottle/pail for the product you apply. it should say what it should and shouldn't be applied to.
the stuff I have used says not to spray on plastic or rubber... I'm not perfect and over spray goes everywhere! Really the cloud how oil gets to be silly if you do multiple vehicles.
I try to avoid the exhaust... but once again poop happens and it normally burns off in about 20 miles.
the stuff I have used says not to spray on plastic or rubber... I'm not perfect and over spray goes everywhere! Really the cloud how oil gets to be silly if you do multiple vehicles.
I try to avoid the exhaust... but once again poop happens and it normally burns off in about 20 miles.
newbury
Super Star Member
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- From Vt, in Va, retiring to MS
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On a side note FF is 10% off. I think they were waiting for you to make your big buy
I use a lot of fluid film. I spray it on LOTS of things.
They are having their fall sale, on orders over $49.50
10% off every order, free shipping, and a free Fluid Film Keychain
Enter promo code "fall2018" at checkout.
/edit - bought another 12 cans, the last dozen I think lasted me about 7 years.
I just can't yet justify the 55 gallon drum
View attachment 566896
sorry - on sale at Fluid Film Rust Protection
crashz
Elite Member
BTW LD1, congrats on the new truck!
I avoid and cover the exhaust. Same thing with wire harnesses. Consider the FF to be a light grease. Obviously a drip or two will smolder and typically won't do much more. But...
Last year I got it on the catalytic converter of the pickup. I didn't see it and the FF smoldered, but I really wish I was more careful. The smell and fear of fire was enough to be more careful next time.
FF does effect some plastics and rubber. I'm extra careful under the hood and just hit key areas that do not get hot (no engine parts) and not near critical rubber (mounts, hoses, belts). I spray the core support, hood lip, hinges and area, some parts of the fire wall, bracing and backside of fenders. Frame and front horns get fully sprayed. Get some cans for these areas, as they are so much cleaner than the regular sprayer. That thing is a FF fire hose.
FF also collect all kinds of dust and grime (not a surprise). So, while you will protect the underside of the truck, it will be a greasy, dirty mess. But it won't be a rusty, crusty mess.
Also in high splash areas, it will wash off. Wheel wells are a typical place that washes out.
Its a working progress. Do your best this year. Next year, you will see the spots you missed, and hit them. Each year will get better.
I avoid and cover the exhaust. Same thing with wire harnesses. Consider the FF to be a light grease. Obviously a drip or two will smolder and typically won't do much more. But...
Last year I got it on the catalytic converter of the pickup. I didn't see it and the FF smoldered, but I really wish I was more careful. The smell and fear of fire was enough to be more careful next time.
FF does effect some plastics and rubber. I'm extra careful under the hood and just hit key areas that do not get hot (no engine parts) and not near critical rubber (mounts, hoses, belts). I spray the core support, hood lip, hinges and area, some parts of the fire wall, bracing and backside of fenders. Frame and front horns get fully sprayed. Get some cans for these areas, as they are so much cleaner than the regular sprayer. That thing is a FF fire hose.
FF also collect all kinds of dust and grime (not a surprise). So, while you will protect the underside of the truck, it will be a greasy, dirty mess. But it won't be a rusty, crusty mess.
Also in high splash areas, it will wash off. Wheel wells are a typical place that washes out.
Its a working progress. Do your best this year. Next year, you will see the spots you missed, and hit them. Each year will get better.
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