SCUT Mowing - Ground Speed?

[mculik5]

Hi. New to the forum.

I'm thinking about getting a SCUT for the loader and backhoe, but I can only make it work financially if I sell my ZTR and the ATV I'm using for snowplowing/utility. This means I'll need to mow with the SCUT (I'd get a 60" MMM).

I mow 2.2 acres of average lawn (not a golf course, not a pasture) every week. Currently, I'm using a 52" Toro ZTR. It's a commercial-grade unit, and I'd guess I mow at 7-8 MPH. My whole yard takes me 1.5 - 2 hours to mow. I don't have many trees or obstacles, but I do have over 1000' of fence that I mow along.

Mowing is 80+% of what I'll be using the tractor for, and I don't want to add more time to my weekend routine. However, I'm having a hard time getting a sense of SCUT mowing ground speeds. One dealer is telling me my 2 hour job will take 3-4 with a SCUT, and one is telling me that I can mow just as fast as I do on the ZTR (basically, top speed of the tractor), and the only time I'll loose is turning around. I did my own quick math and figured the SCUT will add 15 minutes to my routine, but I don't know if my assumptions are right.

Can anyone who mows with a SCUT talk about how fast you're able to reasonably go?

Thanks!

 

[Code54]

The main thing to figure out is your actual mowing speed. 7-8mph is clipping! If you are going 8mph I highly doubt a SCUT is going to be close. I think my BX maxes out around 8mph and about the only time I ever run it at 8mph is on the road. In OUR yard it would shake you about to death and the mower would be bouncing. Don't forget the SCUT are somewhat heavy for small machines, don't have suspension (not sure if your Turn model does), and often have the rear tires loaded so not the best combo for ride quality.
I cut a little over two acres with hills, trees and a fair amount of spots to slow me down and I can get it down in 2hrs with a 60 MMM so if you are wide open it sounds more than possible.

 

[TheMadOne]

You're not traveling nearly as fast as you think you are. a 54" mower going 7mph should be able to do 2.2 acres in about 45 minutes. You're probably averaging 4 or so mph.

A SCUT with a 60" deck will do about an acre an hour on average. The problem is, I don't know your terrain. Is your lawn smooth enough that you can keep the pedal down?

My suggestion is asking for an on site demo, time yourself on a section with the zero turn the week before, then do the same section over with the SCUT.

 

[Phillip w]

Well, i'm pretty opinionated and set in my convictions. I've been around this stuff for 40 plus years. Someone on here will probably try to attack or discredit me and whoopy! Here goes: the speed of mowing generally depends on two things. How well is the machine handling the job and how nice of a cut do you want. The slower you go with with good sharp blades the nicer the cut and the easier on the machine. With normal grass say 2 or 3 inches tall, a good zero turn mower will "flat kick a little tractors butt". However, if you are in tall stuff say knee high, the little tractor wins out. I would not be a bit surprised if a little tractor does not add an extra hour or so to your mowing time. As far as affordable or not with out selling you current toys, only you know you own situation. However, if you have reasonably good credit, IE a car loan, mortgage, maybe a couple credit cards etc, a lot of dealers will finance a tractor for you. Shop around, some of these little tractors aren't worth hauling home in my opinion. Also, watch your dealers. Some are as bad as a used car salesman and will tell you anything to make a sale. Hope this helps.

 

[ovrszd]

Well, i'm pretty opinionated and set in my convictions. I've been around this stuff for 40 plus years. Someone on here will probably try to attack or discredit me and whoopy! Here goes: the speed of mowing generally depends on two things. How well is the machine handling the job and how nice of a cut do you want. The slower you go with with good sharp blades the nicer the cut and the easier on the machine. With normal grass say 2 or 3 inches tall, a good zero turn mower will "flat kick a little tractors butt". However, if you are in tall stuff say knee high, the little tractor wins out. I would not be a bit surprised if a little tractor does not add an extra hour or so to your mowing time. As far as affordable or not with out selling you current toys, only you know you own situation. However, if you have reasonably good credit, IE a car loan, mortgage, maybe a couple credit cards etc, a lot of dealers will finance a tractor for you. Shop around, some of these little tractors aren't worth hauling home in my opinion. Also, watch your dealers. Some are as bad as a used car salesman and will tell you anything to make a sale. Hope this helps.

Not sure why the disclaimer?? Nothing opinionated about this post.

 

[ovrszd]

If 80% of your hours will be mowing how can you justify an FEL and backhoe?

An FEL can possibly be justified. A backhoe on a SCUT is very hard to justify.

Maybe look for a used machine to fill the gap and keep the ZTR for mowing tasks?

 

[rbtjr]

I have done a fair amount of mowing with both a tractor with a 90" finish mower and with several large zero-turn mowers. I currently mow about 1.5 acres with a 61" ZTR. Before that I used a 66" ZTR. In my experience, the ZTR mowers mow considerably more quickly that even a larger mower on a tractor. The reason is that the ZTRs are much more maneuverable and can mow more quickly around trees, corners, make 180-degree turns, etc., than the tractor. However, if your mowing area is wide open so that you can mow pretty much in straight lines with wide-open turnaround areas at the ends, the tractor might be competitive with respect to mowing time. Otherwise, I would predict that your 52" ZTR would complete your mowing more quickly than a CUT with a 60" mower. But, the tradeoff of getting the tractor in return for spending a little more time mowing would IMO probably be worth it.

 

[smstonypoint]

I mow 2.2 acres of average lawn (not a golf course, not a pasture) every week. Currently, I'm using a 52" Toro ZTR. It's a commercial-grade unit, and I'd guess I mow at 7-8 MPH. My whole yard takes me 1.5 - 2 hours to mow. I don't have many trees or obstacles, but I do have over 1000' of fence that I mow along.

The formula for theoretical capacity = average ground speed (mph) * implement width (feet)/8.25. That value has to be adjusted by an efficiency factor that allows for overlap, turning, etc.

Assuming 82.5% efficiency, the field capacity reduces to average ground speed (mph) * implement width (feet)/10.

If you are mowing 1.1 acres per hour with a 4.33 ft. mower and 82.5% efficiency, your ground speed would work out to be 2.54 mph.

Steve

 

[newbury]

If 80% of your hours will be mowing how can you justify an FEL and backhoe?

An FEL can possibly be justified. A backhoe on a SCUT is very hard to justify.

Maybe look for a used machine to fill the gap and keep the ZTR for mowing tasks?

What Richard wrote.

If you can rent a mini-ex near you I'd strongly suggest get a used SCUT w/FEL & bucket and rent the mini-ex when you need a backhoe. Especially if you were thinking of a small SCUT.

Small backhoes on small tractors are very limited compared to small mini-ex's, except for speed of travel.

 

[dalola]

No offense, but..... are you crazy??:confused2:

If mowing is your primary time consumer, be prepared to add to it. Doubling your time is a fair estimate, ZTR vs SCUT. Not only speed, but maneuverability. I have both, no way in Haiti I'd go back to tractor finish mowing.

Figure out a way to get the tractor and keep the ZTR, or keep what you've got. My $.02.

 

[texas42]

I went the other way. Was mowing with a 2320 JD with 60" MMM. Bought a 60" ZTR and the ZTR cut my mowing time by 1/3. I mow about 2 acres weekly. Do have some trees to mow around but mostly open. ZTR just mow faster. Not that your speed is any higher, just faster in turns and around obstacles.

 

[mculik5]

Thanks! Lots of good info here.

@Code54 - My ZTR has a top speed of 8.5 MPH according to the spec sheet. I've never clocked myself, but when I'm mowing dry grass, I find that I'm pushing the controls 80-90% of the way forward while still getting nice cut quality and not bogging the engine at all. My yard is more or less wide open, and flat/smooth enough that I don't get too beat up even when mowing quickly. My ZTR does not have suspension. Glad to hear your comment at about 2 acres in 2 hours with your 60" MMM.

@TheMadOne / @rbtjr / @smstonypoint - Completely agree. 7-8 MPH is my guess at straight line speed. My average speed, including turns, is a lot less. My yard is pretty flat/smooth with the exception of one section (steep slope), and there are minimal obstacles. Based on tractors I've rented and driven in my yard, I could keep the pedal down for most of it, provided the engine and mower could keep up. I could also change my mowing pattern to avoid making 180-turns to increase the SCUT's average speed.

@Phillip w - Thanks. The enticing financing from some manufacturers ($0 down, 0% for 84 months) is what got me thinking about this in the first place. If a buy a SCUT, it will be financed. In reality, I could afford to keep my other toys, but it's just too much stuff and my wife wouldn't come close to agreeing to that.

@ovrszd / @newbury - You guys are getting at the core of my decision. I have some projects around the house appropriate for a FEL and backhoe - probably 50-60 hours of tractor work (grading, removing stumps, moving dirt/rocks, etc.). Once those are complete, unless I come up with new projects, the backhoe wouldn't get as much use, though I'm sure the FEL would come in handy. I would also be using the FEL for snow removal, and the 3PH might come in handy in the future if we start gardening more seriously. From a straight economics perspective, renting is cheaper. However, renting is not the easiest for me, as I have to borrow my brother's pickup to trailer the rental and dedicate a full day to make the most of it. With a full-time job, two-year-old daughter, and many other (non-tractor) projects, there's something to be said for being able to run out to my workshop, fire up the tractor, do an hour of work in between other stuff, and then put it away.

The issue is, if I keep the ZTR for mowing, sell the ATV, and buy a SCUT w/ FEL (no backhoe, no MMM), I've basically spent ~$11K for a really cool wheelbarrow/grader, and I'll still need to rent something to pull stumps. Thus, this seems, to me at least, to be an all or nothing conundrum. Either keep what I have and rent extra capability, or sell it all and replace two pieces of equipment with a "Swiss army knife."

How's the market for used backhoes attachments?

 

[RjCorazza]

I have a 60” and 72” ztr that I mow 6 acres with. Also a 90” finish mower for the back of the tractor. Even with my property being mostly wide open, the tractor cannot compete with even the 60” ztr mower.
I get what you’re saying about ending up with a cool wheel barrow, but keep in mind you propose going from a purpose built machine to a compromise machine. The only downside being that it’s going to take longer to cut 2.2 acres with a scut. Were I in that position, I would certainly choose the scut (and I did cut my property for many years with a scut / rfm before I filled out my fleet).

 

[LouNY]

or cover more area with a slower mower :drink:

seven individual decks all hydraulically driven

 

[tmcj]

Hi. New to the forum.

I'm thinking about getting a SCUT for the loader and backhoe, but I can only make it work financially if I sell my ZTR and the ATV I'm using for snowplowing/utility. This means I'll need to mow with the SCUT (I'd get a 60" MMM).

I mow 2.2 acres of average lawn (not a golf course, not a pasture) every week. Currently, I'm using a 52" Toro ZTR. It's a commercial-grade unit, and I'd guess I mow at 7-8 MPH. My whole yard takes me 1.5 - 2 hours to mow. I don't have many trees or obstacles, but I do have over 1000' of fence that I mow along.

Mowing is 80+% of what I'll be using the tractor for, and I don't want to add more time to my weekend routine. However, I'm having a hard time getting a sense of SCUT mowing ground speeds. One dealer is telling me my 2 hour job will take 3-4 with a SCUT, and one is telling me that I can mow just as fast as I do on the ZTR (basically, top speed of the tractor), and the only time I'll loose is turning around. I did my own quick math and figured the SCUT will add 15 minutes to my routine, but I don't know if my assumptions are right.

Can anyone who mows with a SCUT talk about how fast you're able to reasonably go?

Thanks!

I mow almost the same 2.2 acres with my Mahindra Max 26xl 60" mmm, pretty much same scenario. Average yard, mostly flat, about 1000' against a tree line, 2 trees , 2 houses & garage, etc. I only mow in full speed low range because any faster would be a little more bouncy than I want to put my equipment through. 3/4 or so is straight line mowing and the rest is section by section. And it takes about 1.5 hrs. Which is less than half the time it took with my standard 42" lawn mower. I typically mow once a week so it isn't really high and has a clean cut when done.

As far as having the same unit for mowing, backhoe, loader, etc. I guess it depends on how much it takes to switch between them. On the Max it takes me about 10-15 minutes at most to pull one off and put something else on, and not really being in any kind of hurry. I'm probably the same with not needing the loader or backhoe more than about 25% of the time, and I find myself looking for excuses to use them. But it sure is extremely convenient to have them any time I need them vs renting, borrowing, or having someone else do little jobs for me. I'm the type that likes to be as self sufficient as possible and have not once regretted having my tractor with it's attachments & implements. In fact, now I can't imagine life without it. I grew up with farm sized tractors that I used for some things but my little tractor is just down right awesome to have around. I have never owned or even used a zero turn mower so I can't really do a fair comparison to that, but the versatility of a little tractor is hard to beat. Personally that would out weigh any mowing benefits of a zero turn that is limited to one purpose.

 

[Tx Jim]

No offense, but..... are you crazy??:confused2:

If mowing is your primary time consumer, be prepared to add to it. Doubling your time is a fair estimate, ZTR vs SCUT. Not only speed, but maneuverability. I have both, no way in Haiti I'd go back to tractor finish mowing.

Figure out a way to get the tractor and keep the ZTR, or keep what you've got. My $.02.

Ditto I'll bet my Dixie Chopper Silver Eagle with 60'' deck will mow 2.2 acres faster than SCUT with a 60'' MMM.

 

[corl]

My neighbor has a Dixie Chopper that flies across his lawn. I do believe that he does wheelies routinely when mowing his lawn. I am always ready to call 911 for him, but never have needed to call. I spent my professional life running fast and don't mind taking my time when I mow. I go as fast as is comfortable with my suspension seat. Don't need to get beaten up mowing the lawn.

 

[Phillip w]

Thanks! Lots of good info here.

@Code54 - My ZTR has a top speed of 8.5 MPH according to the spec sheet. I've never clocked myself, but when I'm mowing dry grass, I find that I'm pushing the controls 80-90% of the way forward while still getting nice cut quality and not bogging the engine at all. My yard is more or less wide open, and flat/smooth enough that I don't get too beat up even when mowing quickly. My ZTR does not have suspension. Glad to hear your comment at about 2 acres in 2 hours with your 60" MMM.

@TheMadOne / @rbtjr / @smstonypoint - Completely agree. 7-8 MPH is my guess at straight line speed. My average speed, including turns, is a lot less. My yard is pretty flat/smooth with the exception of one section (steep slope), and there are minimal obstacles. Based on tractors I've rented and driven in my yard, I could keep the pedal down for most of it, provided the engine and mower could keep up. I could also change my mowing pattern to avoid making 180-turns to increase the SCUT's average speed.

@Phillip w - Thanks. The enticing financing from some manufacturers ($0 down, 0% for 84 months) is what got me thinking about this in the first place. If a buy a SCUT, it will be financed. In reality, I could afford to keep my other toys, but it's just too much stuff and my wife wouldn't come close to agreeing to that.

@ovrszd / @newbury - You guys are getting at the core of my decision. I have some projects around the house appropriate for a FEL and backhoe - probably 50-60 hours of tractor work (grading, removing stumps, moving dirt/rocks, etc.). Once those are complete, unless I come up with new projects, the backhoe wouldn't get as much use, though I'm sure the FEL would come in handy. I would also be using the FEL for snow removal, and the 3PH might come in handy in the future if we start gardening more seriously. From a straight economics perspective, renting is cheaper. However, renting is not the easiest for me, as I have to borrow my brother's pickup to trailer the rental and dedicate a full day to make the most of it. With a full-time job, two-year-old daughter, and many other (non-tractor) projects, there's something to be said for being able to run out to my workshop, fire up the tractor, do an hour of work in between other stuff, and then put it away.

The issue is, if I keep the ZTR for mowing, sell the ATV, and buy a SCUT w/ FEL (no backhoe, no MMM), I've basically spent ~$11K for a really cool wheelbarrow/grader, and I'll still need to rent something to pull stumps. Thus, this seems, to me at least, to be an all or nothing conundrum. Either keep what I have and rent extra capability, or sell it all and replace two pieces of equipment with a "Swiss army knife."

How's the market for used backhoes attachments?

If it were me, i'd shoot for a 25 to 30 hp tractor with 4 wd and front end loader. Dependind on the stump, you maybe able to dig it out with the loader with a little effort. Other wise gonna need a hoe. Around here, you can rent a mini excavator and probable do the job in an aftermoon. As for rear attachments, i would not get to excited. Around here the is always a farm auction or consignment sale. If you watch what your doing, you can pick up a blade, brush hog, tiller, plow, disc etc. at a sale for like half price or less of new price. You can always pick up new stuff for a tractor at tsc, orschelns or you local farm and home store. Hope this helps.

 

[Atchuuu]

This might help if you can figure out how fast you can comfortably run the Tractor with MMM. I was able to determine the speed traveled by knowing the acreage cut and the time spent. I think you might also find a GPS app for your phone to verify speed.

Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour - Some have pointed out that the efficiency factor used in this program may be too high.

 

[smstonypoint]

This might help if you can figure out how fast you can comfortably run the Tractor with MMM. I was able to determine the speed traveled by knowing the acreage cut and the time spent. I think you might also find a GPS app for your phone to verify speed.

Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour - Some have pointed out that the efficiency factor used in this program may be too high.

That calculator assumes 90% efficiency and is too high IMO. The Exmark calculator assumes 80% efficiency and is more realistic IMO -- https://www.exmark.com/Exmark-Advantage/Mower-Productivity-Chart.

Steve