A backup camera for $50!!!!!!!!!!!

[CCWKen]

Great! Thanks guys. It was just a concern.

 

[dickfoster]

I'm curious about having the camera on all the time. Since these were designed for backup cameras and as such, on for short periods of time, has anyone had a problem with them if used all the time? I mean used as a rear view and on all the time. Do they get hot or start loosing sharpness?

It should do just fine operating 24/7 unless someone did something drastically stupid when they designed it. The only problem would be that the backlight in the display may burn out over time unless it's an LED backlight.

 

[dickfoster]

This second video was taken the next day in full sun. As you can see, I couldn't really see anything on the screen and the system is pretty much useless in full sun. Later in the day, it became overcast and cloudy, and I could see a little better.

Yeah the display needs to be completely shaded. Just like the display on your cell phone or anything else.

 

[dickfoster]

Sorry to hear about your machine burning.

Some of the cameras you linked come with the cable to connect the camera to a monitor. The cable you need is a RCA cable. It is the same cable that is used to connect stuff to your TV. A gold plated cable would be best.

Amazon.com: Mediabridge Stereo Cable with Left and Right Audio (6 Feet) - RCA to RCA Gold-Plated Connectors - (Part# MPC-ALR-6B ): Home Audio & Theater

Here some info that may help you select a camera, espically the part on CMOS vs CCD.

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT REAR VIEW CAMERAS | eBay

I noticed some of those cameras you listed did not have many reviews. That does not mean they are bad but I would probably buy one that had a lot of reviews. Also look at the reviews for the customer submitted images. Someone may have a picture of the cameras picture so you can get an idea of how well it works.

It doesn't really have much to do with CCD or CMOS. Actually in most cases CCDs are less advanced than CMOS as CCD technology is rapidly approaching obsolescence. The things that do matter is the resolution of the display and the resolution of the camera along with sensitivity (night time when it's dark out) and the rarely quoted dynamic range of the camera or the range of brightness values in the scene.

Many of the cameras being sold are somewhat limited in resolution to standard definition or the older TV standards, think VGA (640 X 480) for computer displays that was a standard definition a long long time ago. If it's a simpler analog interface then it's likely to be an older TV standard camera and display like PAL or NTSC. Your old tube type TVs were NTSC here and PAL in Europe and other places. Don't expect to get much detail with this type of system but likely enough to keep you from running into something.

To get more displayed definition along with higher dynamic range etc. it starts to get a bit more complicated and the interface is likely to be digital and the price begins to ramp up for both the camera and the display.

There are camera sensors that have been developed specifically for this kind of application as for many automotive systems involving driver aids where the output is intended for display and machine vision systems that do things not involving a display like airbag deployment, collision detection etc. OmniVision

Of course the high dynamic range cameras (think black cat in a coal bin at night and a daylight scene at the same time) are capable of detecting more dynamic range than any display is capable of showing unless you do something that usually makes for a somewhat ugly looking picture. However they can capture a wider range of luminance values than even the human eye can deal with in a single frame. For example with a high dynamic range camera I could read the printing on a 100 watt light bulb, with the bulb on. Try it if you think it's easy. Most cameras will just white out or go completely black. With a CCD camera any bright point of light will usually translate into a vertical white stripe up and down the whole display because it's just the nature of how they work.

To deal with the dynamic range problem with a standard camera try to keep your camera pointed down so you aren't seeing the horizon which is likely to include the sun or bright light.

A side note, I think limited dynamic range was at the bottom of the recent fatality with the Tesla so called autopilot crash. A white trailer against a bright sky and the car drove itself right into the trailer simply because it couldn't see it. It all looked white to the camera. Proving that nothing is idiot proof or can be taken for granted. Back to the drawing board guys, a high dynamic range camera wouldn't have been fooled so easily.

For better night time performance you're better off with a black and white camera. This is because color cameras typically include a near IR filter that excludes near infrared light that produces color crosstalk and ugly color pictures. All silicon based image sensors, CCD and CMOS alike are naturally sensitive down into the near infrared region. You probably don't really need color anyway. BTW standard halogen and filament type lamps are rich sources of near IR light too so they can help you see a little further out, LEDs not so much in the near IR.

For cameras mounted inside the cab, shielding the camera to exclude reflected light from the windshield to the camera will help.

Yeah I used to do this stuff for a living.

 

[s219]

No issues with mine in 1.5 years since install. I don't leave the screen on all the time -- just power it on when I need to use the front bucket camera or rear camera.

 

[94BULLITT]

It doesn't really have much to do with CCD or CMOS. Actually in most cases CCDs are less advanced than CMOS as CCD technology is rapidly approaching obsolescence. The things that do matter is the resolution of the display and the resolution of the camera along with sensitivity (night time when it's dark out) and the rarely quoted dynamic range of the camera or the range of brightness values in the scene.

Many of the cameras being sold are somewhat limited in resolution to standard definition or the older TV standards, think VGA (640 X 480) for computer displays that was a standard definition a long long time ago. If it's a simpler analog interface then it's likely to be an older TV standard camera and display like PAL or NTSC. Your old tube type TVs were NTSC here and PAL in Europe and other places. Don't expect to get much detail with this type of system but likely enough to keep you from running into something.

To get more displayed definition along with higher dynamic range etc. it starts to get a bit more complicated and the interface is likely to be digital and the price begins to ramp up for both the camera and the display.

There are camera sensors that have been developed specifically for this kind of application as for many automotive systems involving driver aids where the output is intended for display and machine vision systems that do things not involving a display like airbag deployment, collision detection etc. OmniVision

Of course the high dynamic range cameras (think black cat in a coal bin at night and a daylight scene at the same time) are capable of detecting more dynamic range than any display is capable of showing unless you do something that usually makes for a somewhat ugly looking picture. However they can capture a wider range of luminance values than even the human eye can deal with in a single frame. For example with a high dynamic range camera I could read the printing on a 100 watt light bulb, with the bulb on. Try it if you think it's easy. Most cameras will just white out or go completely black. With a CCD camera any bright point of light will usually translate into a vertical white stripe up and down the whole display because it's just the nature of how they work.

To deal with the dynamic range problem with a standard camera try to keep your camera pointed down so you aren't seeing the horizon which is likely to include the sun or bright light.

A side note, I think limited dynamic range was at the bottom of the recent fatality with the Tesla so called autopilot crash. A white trailer against a bright sky and the car drove itself right into the trailer simply because it couldn't see it. It all looked white to the camera. Proving that nothing is idiot proof or can be taken for granted. Back to the drawing board guys, a high dynamic range camera wouldn't have been fooled so easily.

For better night time performance you're better off with a black and white camera. This is because color cameras typically include a near IR filter that excludes near infrared light that produces color crosstalk and ugly color pictures. All silicon based image sensors, CCD and CMOS alike are naturally sensitive down into the near infrared region. You probably don't really need color anyway. BTW standard halogen and filament type lamps are rich sources of near IR light too so they can help you see a little further out, LEDs not so much in the near IR.

For cameras mounted inside the cab, shielding the camera to exclude reflected light from the windshield to the camera will help.

Yeah I used to do this stuff for a living.

Thanks for all the info. To bad this post can't be moved to the beginning of the thread to help people select their camera and monitor.

 

[nckennedy]

Me neither.

Hi Guys,
I got a camera and monitor from a local electronics store, hooked it up on my JD 5425 loader. It works great at night or in cloudy day but cannot see a thing on a sunny day. Any suggestions? Do have the wrong camera?
Craig

 

[94BULLITT]

Hi Guys,
I got a camera and monitor from a local electronics store, hooked it up on my JD 5425 loader. It works great at night or in cloudy day but cannot see a thing on a sunny day. Any suggestions? Do have the wrong camera?
Craig

Can you adjust the contrast or brightness on the monitor?

 

[dickfoster]

Hi Guys,
I got a camera and monitor from a local electronics store, hooked it up on my JD 5425 loader. It works great at night or in cloudy day but cannot see a thing on a sunny day. Any suggestions? Do have the wrong camera?
Craig

Get some sort of shade on your camera lens so the sun isn't shining into it and keep the camera pointed down and away from the horizon and sky when you can. For a lens shade you can use a piece of heat shrink tubing or even some tape fashioned into a tube. Cut it back to keep it from blocking the angle of view.

You can fashion a shade for your display monitor from some sheets of cardboard or plastic. Use a little cardboard and duct tape for prototyping purposes till you get it right.

 

[My Hoe]

It doesn't really have much to do with CCD or CMOS. Actually in most cases CCDs are less advanced than CMOS as CCD technology is rapidly approaching obsolescence. The things that do matter is the resolution of the display and the resolution of the camera along with sensitivity (night time when it's dark out) and the rarely quoted dynamic range of the camera or the range of brightness values in the scene.

Many of the cameras being sold are somewhat limited in resolution to standard definition or the older TV standards, think VGA (640 X 480) for computer displays that was a standard definition a long long time ago. If it's a simpler analog interface then it's likely to be an older TV standard camera and display like PAL or NTSC. Your old tube type TVs were NTSC here and PAL in Europe and other places. Don't expect to get much detail with this type of system but likely enough to keep you from running into something.

To get more displayed definition along with higher dynamic range etc. it starts to get a bit more complicated and the interface is likely to be digital and the price begins to ramp up for both the camera and the display.

There are camera sensors that have been developed specifically for this kind of application as for many automotive systems involving driver aids where the output is intended for display and machine vision systems that do things not involving a display like airbag deployment, collision detection etc. OmniVision

Of course the high dynamic range cameras (think black cat in a coal bin at night and a daylight scene at the same time) are capable of detecting more dynamic range than any display is capable of showing unless you do something that usually makes for a somewhat ugly looking picture. However they can capture a wider range of luminance values than even the human eye can deal with in a single frame. For example with a high dynamic range camera I could read the printing on a 100 watt light bulb, with the bulb on. Try it if you think it's easy. Most cameras will just white out or go completely black. With a CCD camera any bright point of light will usually translate into a vertical white stripe up and down the whole display because it's just the nature of how they work.

To deal with the dynamic range problem with a standard camera try to keep your camera pointed down so you aren't seeing the horizon which is likely to include the sun or bright light.

A side note, I think limited dynamic range was at the bottom of the recent fatality with the Tesla so called autopilot crash. A white trailer against a bright sky and the car drove itself right into the trailer simply because it couldn't see it. It all looked white to the camera. Proving that nothing is idiot proof or can be taken for granted. Back to the drawing board guys, a high dynamic range camera wouldn't have been fooled so easily.

For better night time performance you're better off with a black and white camera. This is because color cameras typically include a near IR filter that excludes near infrared light that produces color crosstalk and ugly color pictures. All silicon based image sensors, CCD and CMOS alike are naturally sensitive down into the near infrared region. You probably don't really need color anyway. BTW standard halogen and filament type lamps are rich sources of near IR light too so they can help you see a little further out, LEDs not so much in the near IR.

For cameras mounted inside the cab, shielding the camera to exclude reflected light from the windshield to the camera will help.

Yeah I used to do this stuff for a living.

dickfoster,

WOW...I think your article (above) should be a "Sticky," as was basically just suggested by 94BULLIT.

I think you could make a nice consulting fee, just helping us camera-ignorant souls make better choices. Any chance I could send you a PM, when I get around to choosing a camera/screen setup?

And thank you for your theory on the Tesla tragedy--certainly seems reasonable (not that I have the expertise to know, of course).

Lastly, have you seen the backup cameras in the new GMC pickups? My neighbor's is probably a 2015, and his screen is large, color and MAPS OUT, to like the INCH, his projected path, IN REVERSE, when he's backing up, with these cool, "imaginary" (green? dotted?) lines. IOW, if you move the wheel slightly, the two sets of projected tire paths (or, more likely, outside dimensions of the vehicle) MOVE, in REAL TIME, to show you WHERE you'll be, in case you can't judge it for yourself.

It's pretty wild, to me--like the future is NOW, in some respects--but then, I'm easily amused. LOL

I wondered if you knew what that technology was called, and if it would be configurable, by the user, so as to be adaptable to our tractors? (Obviously, changing tractor implements would screw up any preset calibrations, like adding a BH, removing a BH, etc..., but it would be cool if one had their machine set up the same, most of the time, and they could "map" it to their, particular, most-common implement/tractor configuration.)

IF such a thing exists (outside of GMC and the other OEM's, of course), any idea what type of costs would be involved?

Thanks again,

My Hoe