250' water line: got some questions

[Tough Luck]

Whatever pipe you choose, just make sure the OD is larger than the ID. Otherwise, the hole will be on the outside of the pipe.:cool2:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Old engineering joke.

 

[kneedeep]

Whatever pipe you choose, just make sure the OD is larger than the ID. Otherwise, the hole will be on the outside of the pipe.:cool2:

What he said?? :number1:

:confused3: :confused2:

 

[Egon]

Whatever pipe you choose, just make sure the OD is larger than the ID. Otherwise, the hole will be on the outside of the pipe.:cool2:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Old engineering joke.

:cool2::dance1::thumbsup::laughing:

 

[Egon]

Lap joints leak less than butt joints.



Bruce

Wouldn't that depend on the size of the leak.

 

[radioman]

my 2 cents -- if you going to bury locator wire, why use insulated wire ? I would go with bare copper and run the wire to the inside of the house and use it for ground bonding when needed. a few extra feet is not going to hurt your budget plus you can give it a dual purpose.

 

[EddieWalker]

my 2 cents -- if you going to bury locator wire, why use insulated wire ? I would go with bare copper and run the wire to the inside of the house and use it for ground bonding when needed. a few extra feet is not going to hurt your budget plus you can give it a dual purpose.

The cost of 18 gauge stranded wire is about the cheapest wire you can get. Is there bare copper wire that's cheaper?

 

[hookdrvr]

My parents put in 400 ft of black poly back in '81 when they built their house in the NC mountains, 3 ft down, no issues yet. While in Afghanistan in 2011, I had the water line replaced at my place in central Tenn, the guy used 20' sticks of sch 40 pvc. I had to dig it up three times a year later to repair breaks and bad joints. After the third time, I put in 400' of black poly, no issues up to when I sold the place last year. 20' sticks of pvc just doesn't make sense, too many joints to create leaks.

 

[FTG-05]

my 2 cents -- if you going to bury locator wire, why use insulated wire ? I would go with bare copper and run the wire to the inside of the house and use it for ground bonding when needed. a few extra feet is not going to hurt your budget plus you can give it a dual purpose.

The tracer device I have (linked previously) works by sending a signal down the tracer wire with the other device wire connected to a separate ground. Having both grounded wouldn't work.

 

[FTG-05]

My parents put in 400 ft of black poly back in '81 when they built their house in the NC mountains, 3 ft down, no issues yet. While in Afghanistan in 2011, I had the water line replaced at my place in central Tenn, the guy used 20' sticks of sch 40 pvc. I had to dig it up three times a year later to repair breaks and bad joints. After the third time, I put in 400' of black poly, no issues up to when I sold the place last year. 20' sticks of pvc just doesn't make sense, too many joints to create leaks.

Good input. I too am looking at using poly (HDPE); assuming, of course, I can find it in 1" diameter (ID for the jokers above), 300' long and 200 psi pressure rated. I'll be enclosing it in 3" ridged drain line for protection against the limitless number of rocks around here.

Where did you find you 400' of poly?

Thanks,

 

[FTG-05]

The cost of 18 gauge stranded wire is about the cheapest wire you can get. Is there bare copper wire that's cheaper?

From what I've been reading about tracer wire is that it has to have a HDPE or HMWHDPE coating, even though I'll be burying my water line and tracer wire inside 3" corrugated drain line. Regular THHN insulated wire won't work - for very long anyway.

Thanks,

 

[TheGoose]

Odd. What is the failure mode of black poly?

Here in TX the majority of black poly for sale is rated for 80 psig. Very thin-walled. For some reason the stores don't stock the thicker 200 psig stuff.

 

[TheGoose]

My parents put in 400 ft of black poly back in '81 when they built their house in the NC mountains, 3 ft down, no issues yet. While in Afghanistan in 2011, I had the water line replaced at my place in central Tenn, the guy used 20' sticks of sch 40 pvc. I had to dig it up three times a year later to repair breaks and bad joints. After the third time, I put in 400' of black poly, no issues up to when I sold the place last year. 20' sticks of pvc just doesn't make sense, too many joints to create leaks.

He didn't glue the joints right then. The failure is NEVER at a joint. The pipe can and will break, but usually not at the joint IF it's done right.

 

[stuckmotor]

In terms of 50yrs pressure, water, and ground burial, what is the alternative? ... Stainless Steel?

I wasn't putting down the pipe. I think pvc, black polly, and pex are the best choices. It just seems to me that in practice the 50 year warranty is more a way to rate the pipe than something most people will ever be able to use. I can barely keep up with a receipt until I get home, then there's my wife/tax preparer throwing them out, stores closing down, moving, dementia on the part of the owner and death before the warranty runs out.

 

[LD1]

Good input. I too am looking at using poly (HDPE); assuming, of course, I can find it in 1" diameter (OD for the jokers above), 300' long and 200 psi pressure rated. I'll be enclosing it in 3" ridged drain line for protection against the limitless number of rocks around here.

Where did you find you 400' of poly?

Thanks,

Just to clarify......do you want 1" ID pipe? or 1" OD pipe (which would be a 3/4" line)

Where in TN are you? I dont know how far south menards has expanded, but they can get alot of that black pipe, and best prices I found when shopping for geothermal piping. Just have to decide on what side you want.

1" SIDR 7 pipe is 250 psi rated, and 1.349" OD , 1.049" OD..............$212......400'
1" SIDR 9 pipe is 200 psi rated, and 1.283" OD , 1.049" ID............$153.........400'
1" CTS in SDR 9 is 250 PSI rated, 1.125" OD, 0.875" ID.................$153........400'

3/4" SIDR 7....250PSI ......1.060" OD.....0.824" ID....................$97-300'.....$178-500'
3/4" SIDR 9....200PSI.......1.008" OD.....0.824" ID....................$73.......400'
3/4" CTS....SDR 9...250PSI....0.875" OD.....0.681 ID................$93.......400'

And whatever you get, I think you are going to have a hard time trying to shove it through 3" drain pipe. Which I think is not needed anyway.

 

[CCWKen]

I went with 2" pvc for about 750' and put it down about 24". I was more concerned about gophers and getting nothing but steam on the other end if buried shallow. Not to mention it crosses a pasture that could get worked in the future. Our frost line is about 1/2" down here but the summer sun will practically boil water. Gophers will eat through 1" or less PVC so put the pipe down below their 12" range of burrowing.

 

[EddieWalker]

From what I've been reading about tracer wire is that it has to have a PVC coating, even though I'll be burying my water line and tracer wire inside 3" corrugated drain line. Regular THHN insulated wire won't work - for very long anyway.

Thanks,

Thank you. I've never actually used it. I just installed it when required.

 

[FTG-05]

Just to clarify......do you want 1" ID pipe? or 1" OD pipe (which would be a 3/4" line)

Where in TN are you? I dont know how far south menards has expanded, but they can get alot of that black pipe, and best prices I found when shopping for geothermal piping. Just have to decide on what side you want.

1" SIDR 7 pipe is 250 psi rated, and 1.349" OD , 1.049" OD..............$212......400'
1" SIDR 9 pipe is 200 psi rated, and 1.283" OD , 1.049" ID............$153.........400'
1" CTS in SDR 9 is 250 PSI rated, 1.125" OD, 0.875" ID.................$153........400'

3/4" SIDR 7....250PSI ......1.060" OD.....0.824" ID....................$97-300'.....$178-500'
3/4" SIDR 9....200PSI.......1.008" OD.....0.824" ID....................$73.......400'
3/4" CTS....SDR 9...250PSI....0.875" OD.....0.681 ID................$93.......400'

And whatever you get, I think you are going to have a hard time trying to shove it through 3" drain pipe. Which I think is not needed anyway.

My bad: I plan to use 1" ID poly; I fixed my typo/brainfart in my original post.

It may be hard shoving the 1" ID poly through the corrugated 3" drain line, but it beats having to dig it up to fix leaks caused by all the rocks here. One thing I read here from someone who already did it was to tape a plastic water bottle to the front end of the poly so it doesn't hang up on the drain pipe insides. Any other useful tips?

The closest Menards is 190 miles away in Owensboro, KY. I *may* be looking in the wrong places for the 200 psi rated poly. Instead of HD and Lowes, I'm going to try the local Co-op. If they don't have it, they are usually pretty helpful about finding someone who does.

Thanks,

 

[FTG-05]

I went with 2" pvc for about 750' and put it down about 24". I was more concerned about gophers and getting nothing but steam on the other end if buried shallow. Not to mention it crosses a pasture that could get worked in the future. Our frost line is about 1/2" down here but the summer sun will practically boil water. Gophers will eat through 1" or less PVC so put the pipe down below their 12" range of burrowing.

View attachment 469813

I'm having my new neighbor's dad dig me a trench with a backhoe. I plan to specify 20-24" deep. Good info on the gopher stuff, I didn't know they could eat through PVC.

 

[CCWKen]

A gopher is nothing but a subterranean rat. Rats will do the same if presented with the chance. Heck, they'll chew through romex including the copper wire.

They can't get their jaws open enough on the larger pipe.

 

[dzimbric]

I used a pull cord, take a plastic grocery store bag and tie to the twine. Use a shop vac on the other end and it will pull it through PDQ. Tie a rope to the twine and pull it through the hole. Connect the rope to the poly/pex and pull it through. Cable lubricant works and I like the idea of the soda bottle end.

Tape everything well and do not let anything stick out that may snag in the pipe.

Have one person pull and the other person feel the pipe and goes through pretty well.

When I pulled three 2/0 copper wires 300 feet for my house I used the garden tractor and a couple snatch blocks to route the rope out the crawl space window.