Cutting trails on a slope

[DKCDKC]

I've got the same issue on both a hillside road and a short access road that runs across a slope that's just a little too steep for a CUT to run over comfortably. I've been using an angled scraper blade and only working when the ground is soft. I back up and do just a few feet at a time. It works, but it's slow. The hillside road is straight, but does need dips for erosion control... And there are rock outcrops that I have to completely cover with additional dirt and then dig a road over. Since CUTs are exceptionally tippy, it's a very slow process. But I'm retired and have the time...

 

[airbiscuit]

Another good look at the kind of thing you'll be doing. They seem to like using the front blade.

 

[12Bravo]

OP -
If you want detailed help post a location and we can look it up on USGS, Google Earth, etc. and determine the slope. Without detail we are just throwing out suggestions based on our own experiences and it's the classic 6 blind men and the elephant story.

Also, there are generally 3 things to deal with - time, money, manpower/equipment. Enough of one can overpower the other two.

Reading so far you have not mentioned time nor money, but your manpower/equipment seems limited.

How soon does this NEED to be done? What's the approximate length? 100 yards? 1,000 yards, 1 mile?

Are there trees to be cleared? Are there trees for cribbing and erosion control? What's the soil? Are there streams or drains to cross?

There's a wealth of info on the web about trail building, but having done only a little myself I know there is a lot to deal with.

I'm in a similar situation, wanting to cut a trail to the backside of my property, which straight line is about a half mile (on Google Earth). I know it's going to take me many hours, but I've the time.

So give us some more info and we will enjoy advising you how to spend your time and money. But if you want it done soon try and find someone to cut you a logging road that you can maintain.

Here is a picture of my property Topo.
I'm estimating the total length will be 500-800 yards, some flat logging road then rest on hillside going up to top of ridge.

Soil is rocky and clay mix.

Time: I'm retired
Money: As little as possible, hence ME doing it.
Equipment: What I have available, Kioti CK2610 TLB and 5' Scraper Blade.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've been doing this for some time on steep side hills.

It started with the BX and I would need to use the backhoe to did the high side and then backup, turn around and use the loader.

Time of year/soil moisture where I am is critical... too wet and it's a mess... to dry and there is zero compaction... about 5 to 7 days after a good rain seems to be ideal.

The last year I've been using the Deere 350c... a little smaller than I'm use to... but it really is like a little mountain goat...

With the conditions right I can angle the blade and get quite a run which saves a lot of time... the high side is just peeled up and "Rolls" to the low side.

 

[Xfaxman]

-----------------

What I will say, I have somewhere between 20-50% grade and some that are less. It is steeper than I think it is, I am not comfortable on an ATV sideways in some areas more less a tractor. Where I am putting the trail I should be around 20% most the way or less with one area higher than that.

I will measure the slope with a 60" board and level just to see what it actually measures out to be. I will post my finding with pictures in the coming week.

Just so there is no confusion between slope % and slope degrees:

And a visual of a 50% slope:

The chain hanging from the work light shows true vertical:

 

[AxleHub]

I watched one of the videos in this thread where a motorcycle was climbing a trail. Yikes . . off roading is one thing . . . But narrow roads and steep drop offs and nothing to stop ypu from sliding off is not recreational to.me

But what I am interested in is the motivation to cut a trail in obviously very difficult terrain. Having it wide enough for a tractor plus 18 inches on each side seems like a real problem if something goes wrong . . .Llike a minor landslide or break doen of the tractor or health issue

I was impressed with the video of the small excavator clearing a trail (same as motorcycle video trail). But I noted the tracks on the excavator extended over the side in a couple cases. Again with an excavator's leverage being considerable and with considerable cab/hoe spinning around . . A great deal of rocking is created in a very narrow pad next to the dropoff.

So after this description . . what is the purpise of cutting a very steep and narrow trail? It doesn't appear to end in a destination . . just a switchback. It would seem like as extensive amount of work creating an erosion controlled trail in such narrow but very sterp areas. Is the trail for atv/utv recreation purposes only? Would you desire your kids or grandkids and their friends to play on such a trail?

Nature provides its own erosion control . . but when metal blades and chain saws cut the trees and cut into stable land . . . how can you stabilize the steep exposed high side . . .and how can you stabilize the steep trail to prevent rain from undetcutting it greatly and frequently?


If this is only for occasional recreational use . . . isn't it a fair amount of initial and ongoing effort and safety issues ?

I don't want to sound like a "lightweight" . . . because I'm anything but that. but as I get closer to retirement . . I want to acvomplish things that don't require great amount of further committments in the future that I might not be able to handle well. My dad did some of that in later life . . . and I saw his late years taxing his energy to maintain things that no longer brought him joy but still required regular attention.

Just asking

 

[Trials]

... the classic 6 blind men and the elephant story ...

I don't think I know that one :| I'm guessing it was a good thing they had an elephant handy.

 

[12Bravo]

I watched one of the videos in this thread where a motorcycle was climbing a trail. Yikes . . off roading is one thing . . . But narrow and steep drop offs and nothing to stop ypu from sliding off is not recreational to.me

But what I am interested in is the motivation to cut a trail in obviously very difficult terrain. Having it wide enough for a tractor plus 18 inches on each side seems like a real problem if somethong goes wrong. I was impressed with the video of the small excavator clearing a trail (same as motorcycle video trail). But I noted the tracks on the excavator extended over the side in a couple cases. Again with an excavator's leverage being considerable and with considerable cab/hoe spinning around . . A great deal of rocking is created in a very narrow pad next to the dropoff.

So after this description . . what is the purpise of cutting a very steep and narrow trail? It doesn't appear to end in a destination . . just a switchback. It would seem like as extensive amount of work creating an erosion controlled trail in such narrow but very sterp areas. Is the trail for atv/utv recreation purposes only? Would you desire your kids or grandkids and their friends to play on such a trail?

Nature provides its iwn erosion control . . but when metal blades and chain saws cut the trees and cut into stable land . . . how can you stabilize the steep exposed high sude . . .and how can youbstabilize the steep trail to prevent rain from undetcutting it greatly?


If this is only for occasional recreational use . . . isn't it a fair amount of initial and ongoing efgort and safety isdues ?

Do you ride ATV's or Dirt Bikes?

If you look at the picture I provided of the property you will see a destination, the red square on top of the hill, labeled "FUTURE CABIN SITE". So it's not just a switch back and there is a purpose.

As for "Safety" I already have trails on the property, some are for me and my larger quad and others are for my kids and their smaller quad. I'm not really concerned with "Safety" as much as I am concerned with responsible operation of the quads. When you know where you are going and the line you are going to take, the operator will understand the safety aspect of the trail. My kids are well trained on their quads and ALWAYS are supervised in the woods. I'm most the time walking next to or behind them as they go on some of the rougher sections of the trails at home and in the public trail system.

Motivation, well that easy.....Not all of us can afford perfectly flat and usable property. Some of us have to spend our money on fixer upper properties and then modify the plans as we see fit to make the most of what we are able to afford.

 

[12Bravo]

Just so there is no confusion between slope % and slope degrees:

View attachment 458172

View attachment 458173


And a visual of a 50% slope:

View attachment 458174


The chain hanging from the work light shows true vertical:

View attachment 458175

Great information, thank you for the informative post.

The last picture with the chain, not happening.....Nope.

Some of my hills in the back look about like that while up closer to the house is actually steeper than that, which I will not be cutting into.

 

[ultrarunner]

My current project is prep/access to run a new 2" water line from a spring way up the mountain... the old line crosses multiple parcels and was laid out in 1870

I'm particularly susceptible to poison Oak... to maintain the water line right of way will be easier once the path is established an cut...

Also living in a region of extreme fire danger simply have access is a benefit.

 

[Trials]

I watched one of the videos in this thread where a motorcycle was climbing a trail. Yikes . . off roading is one thing . . . But narrow roads and steep drop offs and nothing to stop ypu from sliding off is not recreational to.me ...

:| Where is this place, it sounds like awesome fun to me!

 

[AxleHub]

12Bravo,

I think you have some pretty good answers. And yes at 20 and 40 I used to ride dirt bikes and scramblers in some unique terrains. But I wasn't responsible for maintaining most of those terrains either.

I don't know how old you or your kids are . . . but my point is . . . are they invested in the efgort of helping create the trail and maintaining it with you? A few years ago we had a 12 inch summer rain in a period of 4 hours. Anyone could have one. In western WI we don't have flat land even for many farms . . much less for recreational purposes. Decisions in this area regarding trails are ongoing committments . . . the steeper . . the greater the committment to the future.

And building a dry cabin at the top certainly has advantages during the fair weather seasons.

My point is merely to mention that as we age we depend on our brain to function.more as our body functions a bit slower or for less hours per day. I'm a long way from being "done" but as retirement is coming in sight . . I'll appreciate having easier or less committments that I have to do . . and more things I can choose to do. Like you, I also don't have the financial luxury to hire everything done or carry on at the same speed as when I was 40.

I hope your kids and grandkids are willing to participate and be invested inthe present and future needs of the project

Happy trails

 

[airbiscuit]

So, it looks like there is about a 100 foot rise from the road to the cabin. A deep U to the south doesn't look like a bad route to construct. What are you going to do about power?

 

[12Bravo]

So, it looks like there is about a 100 foot rise from the road to the cabin. A deep U to the south doesn't look like a bad route to construct. What are you going to do about power?

Power.....ah, no power. Oil lamps and wood stove is the plan, this is more of a camping spot for me and the kids to just enjoy some during the summer and fair weather time periods. Plus a place for my wife to sit on porch and read while over looking the valley below.

In the long range future, I might tear the cabin down and turn this into another home site. This all depends on if we plan to stay on this property or sell and move on to large more "Farm" worthy places. Not sure yet, I'm a "Redneck" and my wife is a "City Slicker", so baby steps on where and how much "Off-Grid" I can get us. Happy Wife Happy Life.....FYI..

 

[airbiscuit]

Perfect! I was wondering about trenching in underground power. Living off the grid is cool. You can buy cheap solar panels now for niceties for the better half. People up here put them on ice shacks to power LED lights, charge cell phones and computers, and power small appliances.

Was I close on the 100 ft rise to the cabin. If so, your contour lines look like a pretty manageable trail. A project that should give you satisfaction.

 

[CTWright]

That's a good idea. I was thinking about that last night but was concerned with effective it would be. Do you have any pictures of your trail?

No pictures as I don't live there any more. But I didn't do a lot of engineering (despite the fact Im a retired engineer). I just got on my tractor and tried to make what I had work. Im retired and had time and I enjoyed it!

 

[airbiscuit]

You might be able to do this by angling the scraper blade you have lower on the high side of the hill and make mulitlple small cut passes. I did this with a box blade. I was learning how the whole time I did it so Im no expert, but it worked.

We might be making this more complicated than it needs to be. From the looks of most of your slope, this method might work the easiest for most of your trail. I know you don't have a box blade, but they aren't that expensive. Those scarifiers would help loosen things up, and make it easier for a rear blade.

When do we start seeing pics?

 

[12Bravo]

We might be making this more complicated than it needs to be. From the looks of most of your slope, this method might work the easiest for most of your trail. I know you don't have a box blade, but they aren't that expensive. Those scarifiers would help loosen things up, and make it easier for a rear blade.

When do we start seeing pics?

I have been so focused on cleaning up my brush and working on the water issue on driveway. I will get back into the woods once I get one more tree moved and I can get the ATV down the trail....soon I hope. I miss riding and just relaxing in the woods.

I started another post I am about to post pictures of the driveway issue. Busy busy busy around here, weather warming and stuff to do...Life is GOOD!

Also, I'm on a fixed income, so $500 for a box blade won't happen. I just bought the tractor and a scraper blade. Maybe in a few months if all works out. But I will have to get trees cut and gravel delivered and a mad poured for the saw mill first.

 

[airbiscuit]

Now that you have a back blade, you can start scratching things up :trafficcone:

 

[aeblank]

I'm on a fixed income

Not picking on you, Bravo, but where does this come from?
Fixed at $100/year, $1M/year, $1B/year?

Who's income isn't fixed? If mine weren't, it'd be cranked to 11!!
Even if you're hourly (I'm salaried), there'd likely be a max hours/week you are allowed to work.

Just ranting. Nevermind....