Bump up lift capacity of L3400/LA463 Loader

[teg]

... I'll bet it could be shoehorned in there somewhere...

Here's one without the loader, I could put one on the backside of the valve but thought that would be too exposed (see the blue "o" in photo). I have an extra gauge and extra parts to do this... hum... like I don't have enough going on :dance1:
View attachment 405867
{EDIT} I could put a "T" coming out the valve with the gauge pointing up instead of out side...

 

[FTG-05]

Well, I got my pressure gauge assembled and installed yesterday. Put it in all four positions that have the QD. It was the 2 o'clock position that finally gave me the system pressure I was looking for. It was set at about 2350 (vs. the 2775 psi spec pressure).

Good news for me, bad news for the purists: I apparently have over sized shims in my pressure relief valve. I was able to "tighten" the relief valve setting and got it to just a hair under 2700 psi. I then put the gauge on the 10 o'clock position that would show pressure when lifting the FEL. Worked great except: I have a leak somewhere. I can't tell if it's one of the NPT fittings or the upper female QD. I tightened the NPT fittings that appeared to be leaking and it still leaked. Finally took it off. So now I'm back to a one-time use tool - crap!

Oh well, I did bump up the pressure, so now it will be far easier to lift the rear of the tractor when I'm trying to pick up something I prolly shouldn't be trying to pick up. Life is tough, then you die and all that.

 

[teg]

...Worked great except: I have a leak somewhere...

There are hydraulic fittings and there is regular pipe fittings. Do you have a photo of your set up?

 

[FTG-05]

Teg, no I don't, at least not yet. But it looks a lot LD1's setup shown in post #211. I didn't use teflon tape on the NPT fittings, just the blue goop stuff I normally use for air and/or water systems. I'll get a pic today and post it tonight.

Thanks,

 

[LD1]

I too am curious at seeing a pic, and knowing just where the leak was coming from.

 

[J_J]

Well, I got my pressure gauge assembled and installed yesterday. Put it in all four positions that have the QD. It was the 2 o'clock position that finally gave me the system pressure I was looking for. It was set at about 2350 (vs. the 2775 psi spec pressure).

Good news for me, bad news for the purists: I apparently have over sized shims in my pressure relief valve. I was able to "tighten" the relief valve setting and got it to just a hair under 2700 psi. I then put the gauge on the 10 o'clock position that would show pressure when lifting the FEL. Worked great except: I have a leak somewhere. I can't tell if it's one of the NPT fittings or the upper female QD. I tightened the NPT fittings that appeared to be leaking and it still leaked. Finally took it off. So now I'm back to a one-time use tool - crap!

Oh well, I did bump up the pressure, so now it will be far easier to lift the rear of the tractor when I'm trying to pick up something I prolly shouldn't be trying to pick up. Life is tough, then you die and all that.

FTG-05 --------I was able to "tighten" the relief valve setting and got it to just a hair under 2700 psi.

You did what?????????????.

If your valve has shims, you are supposed to provide shims to obtain the factory set pressure and the cap on the relief valve should be torqued down to a specific force.

You do not adjust the pressure using shims by adjusting the cap nut.


NPT fitting are not designed to be used over and over. You crush the threads every time you tighten.

Try Loctite 542 red.

 

[FTG-05]

Here be some pics:

Sorry I don't have a better "install" pic. I reinstalled it today after tightening the NPT threads on the fixture, still leaked.

As you can see, I used the blue goop stuff I normally use for air/water NPT threads. Maybe this stuff doesn't work at 3k psi hydraulic pressures? Do I need to redo all the NPT threads with teflon tape? I still don't know if it's leaking from a NPT thread or the upper female QD. The leak appears just above the "tee".

And as you can see, I only had to use one extra fitting, leading to one extra NPT threaded connection, so there's not a lot of extra unneeded connections to leak.

Thanks,

 

[LD1]

Do NOT use tape on hydraulic systems.

Never used the blue stuff before so I dont know. Have used the white PTFE paste (teflon paste). But do like the purple loctite 545 better for hydraulics.

Need to figure out for sure where it is leaking.

One thing to try if you havent.....

Since you only bought one pair of couplers, I am assuming that you used BOTH new ones on the gauge setup. That would mean that when you hook the FEMALE QD from the hose (old fitting original to tractor) to the gauge MALE QD (new fitting you just purchased). And same from gauge to valve.
Perhaps the QD's you bought are incompatible with the OEM's. Try matching up the coupler sets and see if that helps.

 

[J_J]

J_J, really??? get over it. Right or wrong, that's what kubota is doing... pretty sure it's to save a buck, after all we are talking "economy" tractor.

There is nothing to get over, just do it the right way.

I also doubt that is what Kubota is doing.

I have to admit that I do cheat at somethings. Please forgive me.

 

[Fordman1981]

There is nothing to get over, just do it the right way. I also doubt that is what Kubota is doing. I have to admit that I do cheat at somethings. Please forgive me.

I have to agree with JJ I would install the right shims and torque correctly. These are diesel tractors with a lot of vibration would not want to chance the plug vibrating out and loosing the spring and shims.

 

[FTG-05]

Do NOT use tape on hydraulic systems.

Never used the blue stuff before so I dont know. Have used the white PTFE paste (teflon paste). But do like the purple loctite 545 better for hydraulics.

Need to figure out for sure where it is leaking.

One thing to try if you havent.....

Since you only bought one pair of couplers, I am assuming that you used BOTH new ones on the gauge setup. That would mean that when you hook the FEMALE QD from the hose (old fitting original to tractor) to the gauge MALE QD (new fitting you just purchased). And same from gauge to valve.
Perhaps the QD's you bought are incompatible with the OEM's. Try matching up the coupler sets and see if that helps.

I got the couplers from Ken's Bolton Hooks, they are 3/8" Body Female/Male, ISO 7241 "B" Type; somebody posted above that that's what should be used. They fit about as well as the OEM couplers do. It's the middle set here: Ken's Bolt on Grab Hooks <<Hydraulics>>

I would *assume* that if they were the wrong couplers, they wouldn't fit at all - somebody correct if I'm wrong here.

Correction: several times above I stated that I didn't know if the leak was coming from the upper female coupler, I should have said upper male coupler (male up, female down, just like OEM couplers).

No teflon tape for hydraulics, got it. Loctite 542 or 545, I'll see if the local hardware or auto parts store has either one of them and redo the NPT fittings.


As far doing it "right": Whoever installed the FEL obviously used the "adjustment knob" procedure instead of shims. And it has worked for almost 10 years (my tractor was made in 2005). "Work" here is defined as a) it didn't leak and b) it kept the same pressure (presumably; I doubt it's ever been measured after it left the factory). If using the adjustment knob works for me as well for the next 10 years (no leaks and it keeps pressure), why is it "wrong"? Other than it's not the way it's "supposed" to be done.

 

[J_J]

Last words on this, it is your tractor, so do what you want.

 

[FTG-05]

OK fair enough, I'll keep an eye on it.

Another question: can I install the gauge assembly but not the female OEM hose on the end and essentially "deadhead" that circuit so I can read pump pressure. Will the male QD leak or is it designed for that?

Sorry if these are dumb questions.

Thanks,

 

[k0ua]

OK fair enough, I'll keep an eye on it.

Another question: can I install the gauge assembly but not the female OEM hose on the end and essentially "deadhead" that circuit so I can read pump pressure. Will the male QD leak or is it designed for that?

Sorry if these are dumb questions.

Thanks,

The male should not leak, even if unconnected. Some will drip a bit if the ball and seat are not perfect. No question is dumb if asked, and you really don't know the answer.

 

[LD1]

Ditto. IT wont leak. But once pressure is read, you will need to shut the tractor off and cycle the joystick to bleed pressure off. Those QD's dont hook up or unhook well under pressure.

 

[ritschner]

As far doing it "right": Whoever installed the FEL obviously used the "adjustment knob" procedure instead of shims. And it has worked for almost 10 years (my tractor was made in 2005). "Work" here is defined as a) it didn't leak and b) it kept the same pressure (presumably; I doubt it's ever been measured after it left the factory). If using the adjustment knob works for me as well for the next 10 years (no leaks and it keeps pressure), why is it "wrong"? Other than it's not the way it's "supposed" to be done.

From my previous posts you know that mine came from the dealer set up with the adjustment knob method. The issue I found with the adjustment knob method is that once the o-ring hardens it may bypass some fluid. Possibly enough so that at idle the three point will not get enough fluid to raise all the way without revving the engine slightly. It may or may not happen to you, but if one day you find that the three point will not lift all the way at idle then that is the first thing to check. That is why mine is now shimmed and torqued to spec. Just a little heads up.

 

[McREBEL]

After reading this thread, admittedly fast, and others on this subject to the point my eyes are about to lose focus, let me see if I have this right.

1) If checking pressure at the output for the loader I do not need to install a T to check the pressure (unless I intend to leave it there) Tractor is a B2920
2) Once the gauge is installed, I assume I need to move the loader lever to put max pressure on the gauge? Yes, I am presently on a kindy-gartner level with this hydraulic stuff. Attempting to learn though.
3) Does this relief valve also control the pressure at the 3 pt? Is there a separate relief valve for the 3pt?

I don't care to go beyond the spec, I just want to make sure I am at the spec. Thanks.

 

[LD1]

After reading this thread, admittedly fast, and others on this subject to the point my eyes are about to lose focus, let me see if I have this right.

1) If checking pressure at the output for the loader I do not need to install a T to check the pressure (unless I intend to leave it there) Tractor is a B2920
2) Once the gauge is installed, I assume I need to move the loader lever to put max pressure on the gauge? Yes, I am presently on a kindy-gartner level with this hydraulic stuff. Attempting to learn though.
3) Does this relief valve also control the pressure at the 3 pt? Is there a separate relief valve for the 3pt?

I don't care to go beyond the spec, I just want to make sure I am at the spec. Thanks.

1. No tee needed. Just a gauge and female quick connect to plug into the loader valve.
2. Yes, you need to move the lever to function whatever port you hooked to.
3. Yes. System pressure is what yo are controlling/adjusting. You are just checking it at the loader as it is most convenient.

 

[J_J]

Checking pressure at the loader work ports does not check the 3pt.

You only have one relief valve and it uses shims. It is on the bottom of the loader valve. It is the relief valve for the tractor hyd system.

If you want to test the 3pt you need to find another gauge insertion point. Loader plug in will not work.

When the loader is in neutral, fluid only flows through the valve, so the gauge should be in a tee in the series flow path.

You have two supply tubes to and from the pump to the loader and they are connected using banjo fittings.

You could cut the hard line from the pump to the loader and install a tee using compression fittings and install a QD for the gauge or make the gauge a permanent item and mount it where you can see it to monitor and troubleshoot the hyd system.

 

[rswyan]

... You only have one relief valve and it uses shims. It is on the bottom of the loader valve. It is the relief valve for the tractor hyd system.

JJ,

I don't really know if that is accurate on that particular model.

FWIW, my tractor (B2910) has two PRV's (not counting the one on the rear remotes)

It's certainly true that the PRV on the loader likely sets the max pressure for the system (being first in the chain and furthest upstream) ... but it is also possible that if there is another PRV downstream of the loader valve - say for the 3PH - it might be set at a different pressure.