Starting your tractor in the winter.

[RoyJackson]

I'm missing your point? Are you saying driving a tractor out of a warm garage a couple of times of year in winter is something else to worry about?
What's you condensation theory on the alternative of leaving it outside to change temperature with each passing day and night?

The point is to not just start the machine, move it out of the garage and then shut down. If you have a reason to start the tractor and work it, that's one thing...but to just start it to "start it" (with no task at hand) isn't a good thing. It takes heat and time to evaporate condensation.
Leaving the machine outside would be OK...I think most of us park them inside to prevent sun damage and such...or theft. But it's better if you have a block heater if you leave it outside...makes winter starts much easier.

 

[Egon]

I'm missing your point? Are you saying driving a tractor out of a warm garage a couple of times of year in winter is something else to worry about?
What's you condensation theory on the alternative of leaving it outside to change temperature with each passing day and night?

In the area I grew up in the Farmers who used their tractors DAILY found it better to keep the shop/garage/shed just below freezing due to condensation problems. Empirically gained data by others I have no reason to argue with. The same would apply to a vehicle.

 

[dave1949]

In the area I grew up in the Farmers who used their tractors DAILY found it better to keep the shop/garage/shed just below freezing due to condensation problems. Empirically gained data by others I have no reason to argue with. The same would apply to a vehicle.

I read something years ago that vehicles parked in a heated garage in winter rust more than those parked outside. I think road salt has a lot to do with that situation. Oxidation is an endothermic process, adding heat increases it, plus liquid water versus frozen water will improve the oxidation rate.

Maybe those old farmers' only heated space option was a barn full of animals and humid air?

 

[Egon]

I read something years ago that vehicles parked in a heated garage in winter rust more than those parked outside. I think road salt has a lot to do with that situation. Oxidation is an endothermic process, adding heat increases it, plus liquid water versus frozen water will improve the oxidation rate.

Maybe those old farmers' only heated space option was a barn full of animals and humid air?

The farmers I'm referring to had proper shops for their equipment.

 

[RaydaKub]

Rpm IS NOT directly tied to rpms and the number of turns.

Uhhh, is that a typo? Otherwise, please explain what you mean.

 

[TomSeller]

I have a few diesels that can start without their glow plugs at fairly cold temperatures. After reading this thread, I am thinking that I should glow them even though they do not need it to start.

 

[buickanddeere]

Uhhh, is that a typo? Otherwise, please explain what you mean.

ummmmm yeah that wasn't very good.

Wear IS NOT directly tied to rpms and the number of turns.

 

[buickanddeere]

I have a few diesels that can start without their glow plugs at fairly cold temperatures. After reading this thread, I am thinking that I should glow them even though they do not need it to start.

The glow plugs do not heat the entire engine. Just a wee heating element in a corner of the combustion chamber. Not even related to heating the engine with a block heater regarding wear or starter load..

 

[rsallen]

If wear is not related to rpms or to the number of turns (what in the world does 'the number of turns' mean?) then engines would last for ever.

Let's get this straight, every single revolution of an engine causes wear. I don't care how many different ways you want to cut it or how the revolutions are made whether by hand, starter, at idle or under load....you are going to have some wear on the engine.

Wear not related to the number of revolutions is one of the most inane things I ever heard.

 

[TomSeller]

The glow plugs do not heat the entire engine. Just a wee heating element in a corner of the combustion chamber. Not even related to heating the engine with a block heater regarding wear or starter load..

Totally understand that but it seems any heat would help.

 

[RaydaKub]

If wear is not related to rpms or to the number of turns (what in the world does 'the number of turns' mean?) then engines would last for ever.

Let's get this straight, every single revolution of an engine causes wear. I don't care how many different ways you want to cut it or how the revolutions are made whether by hand, starter, at idle or under load....you are going to have some wear on the engine.

Wear not related to the number of revolutions is one of the most inane things I ever heard.

I think what he is saying is that every revolution of the engine does not cause the same amount of wear as every other revolution. First turn of the engine after being dry for a month will cause more wear than any single revolution in the middle of a day's work. I *think* that's what he meant.

 

[TomSeller]

I think what he is saying is that every revolution of the engine does not cause the same amount of wear as every other revolution. First turn of the engine after being dry for a month will cause more wear than any single revolution in the middle of a day's work. I *think* that's what he meant.

Right, I recall studying this years ago. If I had designed a diesel tractor engine, I would have included a separate electric oil pump to be used similar to the glow plugs, to pre-oil the main engine parts. Then nothing would wear out. Haha

 

[DarkBlack]

If wear is not related to rpms or to the number of turns (what in the world does 'the number of turns' mean?) then engines would last for ever.

Let's get this straight, every single revolution of an engine causes wear. I don't care how many different ways you want to cut it or how the revolutions are made whether by hand, starter, at idle or under load....you are going to have some wear on the engine.

Wear not related to the number of revolutions is one of the most inane things I ever heard.

I was going to reply to him. Thanks for saving me the time

 

[TomSeller]

With good lubrication and mechanical design, metal to metal contact is avoided while running, but not when the engine is static or when starting.

Source: http://www.marinediesels.info/2_stroke_engine_parts/Other_info/hydrodynamic_lubrication.htm
"The rotating shaft drags a wedge of oil beneath it that develops a pressure great enough to support the shaft and eliminate contact friction between the shaft and bearing"

 

[rsallen]

Sorry Tom,
You could oil it any way to Sunday and it would still have a finite number of revolutions before it'd go beyond the tolerances it requires to operate.
Hate to burst your bubble. lol

Other than neglect or abuse the number of revolutions is the single biggest factor of wear.
Otherwise why would we keep track of milage in cars or hours of running a tractor?

 

[DarkBlack]

You must have missed the class in engineering school about linear statistics.
Rpm IS NOT directly tied to rpms and the number of turns.
Check diesel combustion chamber temp just prior to and during combustion with an engine operating at 800 vs 1200rpm.

You just don't get it. A cold unloaded diesel spinning is in an accelerated wear state. If you cold idle at a faster rpm, it may warm up faster,but what you don't seem to get, is that you went through more no-load, engine wearing revolutions to get there.
Don't just come back with more sarcasm. Go read about the generator engines damaged by low loads at 1,800 and 3,600 rpm's. I think you can find a wet stack fatality here on this site. I'll say it again. No load=no heat.

 

[TomSeller]

Sorry Tom,
You could oil it any way to Sunday and it would still have a finite number of revolutions before it'd go beyond the tolerances it requires to operate.
Hate to burst your bubble. lol

Other than neglect or abuse the number of revolutions is the single biggest factor of wear.
Otherwise why would we keep track of milage in cars or hours of running a tractor?

The primary engine wear occurs at start up when there is direct metal to metal contact. On normal operation, given the film of oil separating metal to metal contact, wear is greatly reduced, coming from impurities in the oils or imperfect mechanical design. The link I posted has been well documented in mechanical engineering for eons.

 

[DarkBlack]

The primary engine wear occurs at start up when there is direct metal to metal contact. On normal operation, given the film of oil separating metal to metal contact, wear is greatly reduced, coming from impurities in the oils or imperfect mechanical design. The link I posted has been well documented in mechanical engineering for eons.

That's an old generic explanation of one type of wear. Ever notice UPS trucks shut off at every stop-every day?

 

[TomSeller]

That's an old generic explanation of one type of wear. Ever notice UPS trucks shut off at every stop-every day?

It may be and old explanation, but it is 100% proven. UPS trucks shut down more for fuel savings, not as much to reduce wear. Not every revolution results in equal wear.

 

[rsallen]

Oh I have no doubts about that.
Nor any other of your points, but the fact remains; until the perfect non-fiction lubricant is invented, until the perfect alloys are invented and until we can machine everything to perfect tolerances, each and every mechanical device has a limited number of revolutions.