PLEASE HELP-Electric Brakes

[flyingcow]

Disclaimer---I know very little about electric brakes. I have done a fair amount of wiring on my tractor trailer. Have a light tester, etc.


Bought a used GN. 22ft w/4ft beaver. The trailer brakes did not work. It's about 15yrs old and had been sitting for 5yrs. Wiring tested solid, magnets were replaced. It had the breakaway switch. But that wiring was brittle. For the sake of time, it was eliminated. But the guy working on it, wired the new battery(truck battery CCamps approx 1000, this trailer has a winch on it) directly to the "hot" wire controlling the brakes. He was told to do this? claims that the electric brakes work off of the ground side. Doesn't make sense to me, but again, i know nothing about electric brakes. Well, i've still got no brakes. towed it home 10 miles, low and behold, my brakes were slightly hot. I assume since the brakes are wired up to the battery on the trailer, it's a little stray volts doing their thing?

My pickup. Hook trailer up to pickup. Lights work, etc. But there is a weak ground. Turn signals on, clearance will do the weak signal dance too. You've all seen it. I will fix this. No biggie for me, owning and operating a big rig.

The pig tail plug on the pickup all points test good. All i have is a light tester. Put tester on brake lead, light will get brighter the harder you push on brakes pedal. release brakes in pickup, light goes out.

I know I have to get a solid ground. I plan on disconnecting the battery off of the brakes,or should I? The mechanic was told by another mechanic that this battery had to be hooked up to make trailer brakes work properly. Still, to me, doesn't make sense.

Please any help from someone thats in the know. If this thing had air brakes, I'd be allset. :thumbsup:

Also, the green light on controller does light up, blinks(ground problem), but it's on. No red light when brake pedal is pushed.

Thanks

 

[MasseyWV]

That doesn't sound right. If your brakes are hot, it could mean that they are engaged all the time or that your brake controller/wiring has a problem. Look at your trailer wiring, it should resemble the diagrams shown on the links below. Note that your color coding may be slightly different.

Trailer Wiring Diagrams | etrailer.com

Trailer Wiring Diagrams, Johnson Trailer, Colfax Wisconsin

 

[Travelover]

Brakes should only be powered from the tow vehicle brake controller for normal use. The battery on the trailer is wired through a break away switch to energize the brakes if the trailer comes loose.

Brakes should be grounded with one terminal and powered off tow vehicle controller with the other terminal. There is no positive and negative in the electromagnet in the brake actuator. It is probably worth your while to run a a separate ground wire from the brakes back up to the trailer connector rather than trying to keep a good ground on the steel frame.

 

[brokenknee]

Disclaimer---I know very little about electric brakes. I have done a fair amount of wiring on my tractor trailer. Have a light tester, etc.


Bought a used GN. 22ft w/4ft beaver. The trailer brakes did not work. It's about 15yrs old and had been sitting for 5yrs. Wiring tested solid, magnets were replaced. It had the breakaway switch. But that wiring was brittle. For the sake of time, it was eliminated. But the guy working on it, wired the new battery(truck battery CCamps approx 1000, this trailer has a winch on it) directly to the "hot" wire controlling the brakes. He was told to do this? claims that the electric brakes work off of the ground side. Doesn't make sense to me, but again, i know nothing about electric brakes. Well, i've still got no brakes. towed it home 10 miles, low and behold, my brakes were slightly hot. I assume since the brakes are wired up to the battery on the trailer, it's a little stray volts doing their thing?

My pickup. Hook trailer up to pickup. Lights work, etc. But there is a weak ground. Turn signals on, clearance will do the weak signal dance too. You've all seen it. I will fix this. No biggie for me, owning and operating a big rig.

The pig tail plug on the pickup all points test good. All i have is a light tester. Put tester on brake lead, light will get brighter the harder you push on brakes pedal. release brakes in pickup, light goes out.

I know I have to get a solid ground. I plan on disconnecting the battery off of the brakes,or should I? The mechanic was told by another mechanic that this battery had to be hooked up to make trailer brakes work properly. Still, to me, doesn't make sense.

Please any help from someone thats in the know. If this thing had air brakes, I'd be allset. :thumbsup:

Also, the green light on controller does light up, blinks(ground problem), but it's on. No red light when brake pedal is pushed.

Thanks

I would strongly recommend you reconnect the brake away brake switch. If you are at all in commerce and get stopped roadside this is an "out of service" condition. That means your trailer goes nowhere until the violation is corrected.

 

[MasseyWV]

I would strongly recommend you reconnect the brake away brake switch. If you are at all in commerce and get stopped roadside this is an "out of service" condition. That means your trailer goes nowhere until the violation is corrected.

The following link, with diagrams, shows a typical breakaway switch/battery installation.

Breakaway Kit Installation for Single and Dual Brake Axle Trailers | etrailer.com

 

[flyingcow]

Thanks guys. I'm 99% sure that i had power going to brakes from that battery. Just haven't time to put in garage, and check. i will pull power away from the battery.

Thanks for the diagrams, will look at this afternoon. I've done quite a few rewiring jobs on my big truck. generally, schematics are easy for me to understand.


Eventually i will wire up breakaway, just wanted to know if that as to be in place for brakes to work. To me, it shouldn't matter. Just need some backup from someone in the know.

FWIW, I'm not worried about DOT and getting tagged out of service. In this region, they go after the big trucks. But i will eventually get it hooked(maybe temporarily) up so I can get a inspection tag.

I just need to rerun/check the grounds. If anything i will run a ground strap from trailer to frame of pickup.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Guys are right here. Get it wired right and a brake away. They are about $15 at a rv dealer, tsc, ect.

Chris

 

[MasseyWV]

Eventually i will wire up breakaway, just wanted to know if that as to be in place for brakes to work. To me, it shouldn't matter. Just need some backup from someone in the know.

The brakes are powered from the tow vehicle and don't need the breakaway setup to work. However, I strongly advise that you connect it, because the wiring is not complicated (3-4 wires) and if your trailer ever comes loose, you'll be very glad that you did.

The brakes are all tied together in parallel, with one wire going to ground, and the other wire going to a main bus wire leading back to the brake controller in the tow vehicle. When the breakaway system is tied in, the battery charging wires go to positive and ground, while the brake activation lead goes to the breakaway switch, then on to the main brake bus wire. It sounds complicated but when you see the diagrams, you'll realize that it's very simple.

 

[flyingcow]

MasseyWV- thanks for the diagrams. Much help! What was explained to me from the mechanic was wrong. Thanks for the input. i always assumed that the breakaway would put power to brakes in the event of a disconnect.

And yes you're right Diamond Pilot. Do it right the first time.

Everything i had in my head matches up with the wiring diagrams that MasseyWV supplied me with. Once i get this puppy straightened out and put a coat of paint on it, plus put my tractor on it, i will post a couple of pics.

this unit has a nice winch mounted on it also. get that working right once everything else is done


:thumbsup:Appreciate the help.:thumbsup:

 

[flyingcow]

Also been thinking about the ground. On top of making sure the wiring is grounded right, the B n W ball has a good coating of never seize on it. Not helping the grounding issue. May end up with a small ground strap.

 

[gengine]

All my trailers are grounded through the ball, as well as the plug, and seems to be more than enough.

 

[flyingcow]

All my trailers are grounded through the ball, as well as the plug, and seems to be more than enough.

The ball is a hideaway hitch. I think the lube i put on it is not letting it get a full ground. Good sunday afternoon project.

 

[MasseyWV]

Also been thinking about the ground. On top of making sure the wiring is grounded right, the B n W ball has a good coating of never seize on it. Not helping the grounding issue. May end up with a small ground strap.

Some trailers already have a ground wire, but not all, and sooner or later, corrosion will likely end up affecting the ground points. That said, if it isn't equipped with a ground wire, I like to attach a ground wire to the ground lead of the connector, and run it down the length of the trailer, so all ground points can be tied into it.

If the trailer connector doesn't have a ground wire, get one that does, because grounding through the ball can cause problems, especially if a layer of rust, grease, or other material hardens to form an insulating layer.

Also, I like to solder all connections and cover them with shrink wrap tubing to ensure a water tight connection. Those crimp-on connectors commonly used on trailer wiring are cheap junk, and will usually fail sooner rather than later.

 

[flyingcow]

Thanks Massey. 3 or 4 points of contact good enough? Thats a simple enough job

 

[MasseyWV]

Thanks Massey. 3 or 4 points of contact good enough? Thats a simple enough job

I'm not sure what you mean by points of contact. Do you mean for the ground? Please explain and I'll try to clarify if necessary.

 

[flyingcow]

I'm not sure what you mean by points of contact. Do you mean for the ground? Please explain and I'll try to clarify if necessary.

Yes ground. I just envisioned running a ground strap the length of frame, with 4 points of contact.

 

[Travelover]

Yes ground. I just envisioned running a ground strap the length of frame, with 4 points of contact.

You need a good ground at each brake and at each light coming from the tow wiring plug-in connector. The ball is a mechanical connector, not an electrical connector, except by accident.

 

[crazyal]

If you have a welder (or a friend with one) do yourself a favor. Go to the hardware store and pick up a couple of stainless bolts, nuts, and washers. 1/4"-20 will work. Take a grinder and remove any paint and rust near every place a wire grounds to the frame and weld (mig works great) the head of the bolt to the steel.

Paint the weld and the bare steel on the frame but not the threads of the bolt. I would put one were the 7 pin plug grounds on the trailer, where the brakes ground to the frame, and anywhere a light grounds. Once you do this the only problem you'll ever have with grounds is the connection between the truck and trailer.

 

[MasseyWV]

Yes ground. I just envisioned running a ground strap the length of frame, with 4 points of contact.

I see what you mean now but if it were me, I wouldn't run a ground strap like you propose because it would still be prone to corrosion, regardless of how many points of contact it had.

A separate ground wire, attached to everything that needs a ground, is a much more reliable solution. IMO

 

[Travelover]

........A separate ground wire, attached to everything that needs a ground, is a much more reliable solution. IMO

:thumbsup::thumbsup: