Skidding logs

[Short Game]

I've never had a pair of chaps. I have gotten a chainsaw into my britches three times (all, many years ago). Two of those times I was wearing Levis and long-johns. Once, it was just Levis. The two times, I cut holes in both the Levis and the long-johns, but not my skin. The other time, I cut the Levis and got a minor cut in my skin. I got more careful. :laughing:

All three of those times I was bucking limbs. Now I buck limbs with a PTO buzz saw.

I know an expert tree faller/tree remover. He weighs about 120 but does his on-the-ground limbing with about a 40 inch bar. He says it's so he doesn't have to bend over. He's the best at tree work of anyone I know, but he's still had a couple of broken legs and arms, some knocked out teeth, and a broken back (among other things) over his career. His latest broken leg was about a year ago. He's had to give up the competitive tree topping contests, but he's still traveling the country by invitation to do log rolling at the logging shows.

When I get a tree that worries me too much, he's the guy I call.

 

[Baby Grand]

The alders we have here are especially prone to barber-chairing. The worst of them are the smaller, but tall ones. I know one quadriplegic who can attest to this. However, my closest call came from a fairly large big-leaf maple. It was hollow and had an unseen crack in it. When it jumped off its stump, it landed right where I had jumped from, as I hurled my saw.

For those who don't know, barber-chairing happens with trees that are leaning enough that they split their trunks before the back cut gets close enough to the undercut for it to hinge to break and the tree to fall. The part of the trunk above the uncompleted undercut flies upward as the trunk splits up the log. The part that splits away from the log, springs straight up in the air and when the hinge does finally break, the inertia of the upper, splitting away side, jerks the butt end upward. The top of the tree falls short of its full length and the butt end usually lands several feet backward past the stump, trying to reach out and touch someone.

Here's a tip for leaning trees that you think could possibly barber-chair: take a logging chain and wrap it tightly around the trunk just above where you are going to do your cuts. I use a whole 20 foot chain and take as many wraps as it can reach, and hook it back into itself. This way, if the trunk splits, it can't spring apart. I've done this many times. The guy who told me about it was 8 years older than the 20th century and had worked many years in the woods.

Clever. I'll have to remember that one!

 

[Gordon Gould]

I've never had a pair of chaps. I have gotten a chainsaw into my britches three times

Some things boggle my mind :confused2:

 

[s219]

Here's a schematic of the Coos Bay cut, which can be used to take down a leaning/loaded tree without threat of barber chairing. This is out of my notebook of felling tricks:

Cut #1 is a slightly shallow notch or face cut (maybe 20% diameter). Cuts #2 and #3 come in from the side and can be stabilized by wedges as needed. Cut #4 is your final back cut.

The Coos Bay removes outer holding wood that acts or leverages against the central grain to create shear, and also removes much of the central grain, only leaving a hinge and small perpendicular back strap that forms a "T". You can cut away at that back strap and the tree will gradually begin to go over. There may be a mini barber-chair within the small strap, but it's been isolated to a small grain region far from the outer holding wood, so it's not of significance.

My personal experience is that the Coos Bay T is versatile given a range of tree and bar sizes you may run into, and it also slows down the final felling action for a bit more control. I even use this when cutting a downed tree with a large rootball attached, which can barber chair horizontally and/or violently swing the rootball back into the ground. With a Coos Bay, you can slowly control that cut (I'd still brace the rootball in most cases).

There is also a variation of this cut which replaces the T with an upside down triangle.

 

[Short Game]

Some things boggle my mind :confused2:

Sorry. I didn't mean to do that to your mind. Hey, I rode diesel submarines and motorcycles too. Didn't have any chaps then either. For a long time now, I have stopped cutting my britches. Doing that makes me nervous.

 

[g0rd0]

another diesel submariner, be still my heart. Wich class did you ride? I rode HMCS/M Okanagan a "O" boat built in 65 by the brits for the Canadian navy.

 

[Short Game]

another diesel submariner, be still my heart. Wich class did you ride? I rode HMCS/M Okanagan a "O" boat built in 65 by the brits for the Canadian navy.

Just one boat, a GUPPY III conversion.

Okanogan? Is that like Okopogo?

 

[Tollster]

Knee feels better,I was able to burn a pile yesterday, I kept the chain sawing to a very minimum and really wanted to wear my chaps,but they irritate my stitches. Needless to say,i was very cautious with any cutting.

 

[bcp]

From my logging folder, found somewhere on the internet:

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Any tractor is infinitely better for skidding logs than doing it by hand.

Trust me, skidding 12 foot, 12 to 15 inch logs a quarter mile with chains and a shoulder harness is hard work. And that's with a half dozen 2 foot lengths of 3 inch saplings for rollers.

And yes, I've never claimed to not be totally nuts.

 

[Dead Horse]

here is the rig I baked up. I use it when I have a few quick pulls to do and don't need to rig up the farmi skidding winch.

 

[deezler]

here is the rig I baked up. I use it when I have a few quick pulls to do and don't need to rig up the farmi skidding winch.

Looks pretty functional to me!

For a log skidding newb such as myself, are any 3-pt arm plates like this available retail? No welding skills or equipment here, sadly.

 

[Gordon Gould]

See posts 18 and 34. You can get a cross draw bar and tractor hooks at TSC. Post 18 shows these parts and in post 34 Arrow shows the same parts mounted on his tractor. Dead Horses unit is a a little nicer in that he has welded on grab hooks to the cross draw bar instead of using pin on tractor hooks. So he gains a little height. He has also made his so it does no rotate which might make it easier when rigging up.

 

[3238dpw]

This is my favorite idea
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IlfQ89fGzs&feature=channel]New Cat 1 tong demo.avi - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dead Horse]

for reference here is the way the rig is lashed down so it does not rotate. This is very important in ensuring a consistent hook up and pull. keeps the chain from backing out of the hook, and keeps the bar from swing back and forth during the pull.

choker chains hook right up tight. I back the rig up to the logs, drop the bar right down on the logs, hook up tight and raise the lift enough to get the butts off the ground. Then off we go.

 

[goeduck]

Here's a schematic of the Coos Bay cut, which can be used to take down a leaning/loaded tree without threat of barber chairing.

GREAT tip, thank you.

 

[Creamer]

Here's a schematic of the Coos Bay cut, which can be used to take down a leaning/loaded tree without threat of barber chairing. This is out of my notebook of felling tricks:

Cut #1 is a slightly shallow notch or face cut (maybe 20% diameter). Cuts #2 and #3 come in from the side and can be stabilized by wedges as needed. Cut #4 is your final back cut.

The Coos Bay removes outer holding wood that acts or leverages against the central grain to create shear, and also removes much of the central grain, only leaving a hinge and small perpendicular back strap that forms a "T". You can cut away at that back strap and the tree will gradually begin to go over. There may be a mini barber-chair within the small strap, but it's been isolated to a small grain region far from the outer holding wood, so it's not of significance.

My personal experience is that the Coos Bay T is versatile given a range of tree and bar sizes you may run into, and it also slows down the final felling action for a bit more control. I even use this when cutting a downed tree with a large rootball attached, which can barber chair horizontally and/or violently swing the rootball back into the ground. With a Coos Bay, you can slowly control that cut (I'd still brace the rootball in most cases).

There is also a variation of this cut which replaces the T with an upside down triangle.

I am having difficulty imagining how to get cuts 2 & 3 lined up well enough to make 4. Of course I guess if they were off some the chain would just recut although if it was off just a little a it would make the chain run to one side.

 

[Creamer]

This is my favorite idea
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IlfQ89fGzs&feature=channel]New Cat 1 tong demo.avi - YouTube[/ame]

That looks like a real slick idea!

 

[Gordon Gould]

I am having difficulty imagining how to get cuts 2 & 3 lined up well enough to make 4. Of course I guess if they were off some the chain would just recut although if it was off just a little a it would make the chain run to one side.

There are two things that make that cut safer on leaners. Barber chairing occurs because you have very strong tension across the entire tree which is holding the tree from tipping forward. At the hinge you have strong compression from the weight of the tree. As you make a conventional back cut the tension in the wood between your cut and the hinge increases because the cross section of wood holding the tree gets smaller. If the difference between the tension wood and compression wood at the hinge gets to large the tree splits apart vertically - barber chairs. When you make the coos cut the wood above the two side cuts are no longer attached to the butt. Therefore all the tension is relieved above the cuts. The tension is increased in remaining center wood. But, the thing that makes it safer and less apt to barber chair, is that there is no single line all the way across the tree with strong compression on one side and strong tension on the other. The second think that makes the coos work is that there is less wood to cut in the back cut so you can cut it faster. It takes time for the tension forces to build as you cut so the faster you cut the less time tension has to build.

Now to answer the question. The two cuts don't have to line up perfectly. They can be way off and you will still relieve the tension in the section of butt above them. This is the primary goal. But the closer they match the faster you can make your back cut which is the secondary goal.

If your bar is long enough you can bore all the way thru on cut 2 and then cut all the way back. Be careful boring thru that the hinge is right. This is my preferred method. But there is no single method you can use on every leaner. These methods are designed for solid trees with no signs of rot. Rot in the crown could well mean the tree is hollow. Be extremely careful !!!

gg

 

[Creamer]

There are two things that make that cut safer on leaners. Barber chairing occurs because you have very strong tension across the entire tree which is holding the tree from tipping forward. At the hinge you have strong compression from the weight of the tree. As you make a conventional back cut the tension in the wood between your cut and the hinge increases because the cross section of wood holding the tree gets smaller. If the difference between the tension wood and compression wood at the hinge gets to large the tree splits apart vertically - barber chairs. When you make the coos cut the wood above the two side cuts are no longer attached to the butt. Therefore all the tension is relieved above the cuts. The tension is increased in remaining center wood. But, the thing that makes it safer and less apt to barber chair, is that there is no single line all the way across the tree with strong compression on one side and strong tension on the other. The second think that makes the coos work is that there is less wood to cut in the back cut so you can cut it faster. It takes time for the tension forces to build as you cut so the faster you cut the less time tension has to build.

Now to answer the question. The two cuts don't have to line up perfectly. They can be way off and you will still relieve the tension in the section of butt above them. This is the primary goal. But the closer they match the faster you can make your back cut which is the secondary goal.

If your bar is long enough you can bore all the way thru on cut 2 and then cut all the way back. Be careful boring thru that the hinge is right. This is my preferred method. But there is no single method you can use on every leaner. These methods are designed for solid trees with no signs of rot. Rot in the crown could well mean the tree is hollow. Be extremely careful !!!

gg

Thanks Gordon! I have used the boring cut on trees that are large enough. I like the concept of that one better but like you say there are different situations and therefore different techniques to accommodate those situations.

As is normal I learned something today from this site!