electrical requirements for Miller 211

[HCJtractor]

The more I read, the more confused I am about what I need for my Miller 211 Welder, which is a dual 120 or 230 V, supplied with two plugs. In the 230 V mode, it appears the Amperes Input at Rated Load Output is 24.3. Ideally, I know a dedicated 50 amp breaker is ideal. However, my shop already has a 30 amp circuit, although with a different style plug. My question is can I make a short extension cord to be used as an "adapter" with a 20 amp male plug on one end and a Nema 6-50 female on the other, using appropriate heavy cord? This way I could leave the shop wiring as is.

I am wondering if there is an alternative to running an entire new 50 amp circuit to be able to use this welder in the 230 V mode.

 

[kennyd]

I am wondering if there is an alternative to running an entire new 50 amp circuit to be able to use this welder in the 230 V mode.

In my mind, this answer is NO. DIRTFT (do it right the fist time)

 

[_RaT_]

I am somewhat confused on your question. All you need is a circuit rated for 30 amps and even at that, the duty cycle will actually never allow this circuit to get hot. Why a 50 amp breaker being ideal, you won't trip a 30 amp @240V if your max current is correct for the Miller 211.

If you needed a cord that was adaptable, there are 30 amp 120V plugs. I also thought that Miller had this adapter as part of the welder when it was purchased.

The more I read, the more confused I am about what I need for my Miller 211 Welder, which is a dual 120 or 230 V, supplied with two plugs. In the 230 V mode, it appears the Amperes Input at Rated Load Output is 24.3. Ideally, I know a dedicated 50 amp breaker is ideal. However, my shop already has a 30 amp circuit, although with a different style plug. My question is can I make a short extension cord to be used as an "adapter" with a 20 amp male plug on one end and a Nema 6-50 female on the other, using appropriate heavy cord? This way I could leave the shop wiring as is.

I am wondering if there is an alternative to running an entire new 50 amp circuit to be able to use this welder in the 230 V mode.

 

[crazyal]

The more I read, the more confused I am about what I need for my Miller 211 Welder, which is a dual 120 or 230 V, supplied with two plugs. In the 230 V mode, it appears the Amperes Input at Rated Load Output is 24.3. Ideally, I know a dedicated 50 amp breaker is ideal. However, my shop already has a 30 amp circuit, although with a different style plug. My question is can I make a short extension cord to be used as an "adapter" with a 20 amp male plug on one end and a Nema 6-50 female on the other, using appropriate heavy cord? This way I could leave the shop wiring as is.

I am wondering if there is an alternative to running an entire new 50 amp circuit to be able to use this welder in the 230 V mode.

I ran my Lincoln 255 MIG off a 30 amp circuit for 10 years without a problem. I couldn't upgrade the wiring so I was stuck. Never once tripped a breaker. The welder came with a Nema 6-50 connector (rated for 50 amps) so when I built my garage I ran 100 amp service to it and I finally got it on a 50 amp circuit.

If I'm reading your post right Miller requires a 40 amp circuit but it has a plug on it for a 50 amp circuit. It requires 24.6 amps at max power at 230v. Since breakers are designed to trip at about 20% less than what they are rated for a 30 amp breaker may trip at 24 amps. However the chances of you tripping it are slim to none. I would verify that the existing wire is the correct gauge for the breaker (since there is a chance that you will be operating near the maximum rating). If so then you will be fine if you do as you suggest, make a cord out of thicker wire as an adapter/ extension.

However if you forget and buy something that will use more than the 30 amps your breaker is rated for you will trip it. You'll also risk the chance that if the breaker is defective you could start a fire. Of course it's the same risk you face if you plug something like an AC that requires a 20 amp circuit into a circuit with a 15 amp breaker.

 

[Willl]

Ditto on Kenny.

Do you have room in your box for another dual breaker ?

 

[HCJtractor]

I agree to the "do it right" theme, however I am not sure of what is right is for this welder. I need to call Miller for clarification. It never states what size breaker to use in 230 V mode. In 120V, it list "Amperes Input at rated load output" at 20, but the supplied plug is a 15A style and it clearly shows it plugged into a NEMA Type 5-15P plug. Isn't this a 15 Amp circuit? The Nema Type 5-20P plug isn't even included, as this is an optional item. So I assume I can operate this on a 15 A circuit, in the 120V mode.

In 230V mode, the plug Miller supplies has "20A" stamped on it, but is the Nema Type 6-50P style. In the "Electrical Service Guide" for 230V input, it list "Max Recommended Standard fuse Rating as 25 for Time delay fuses and 35 for normal operating fuses. It list minimal input conductor size as 14 AWG. For "a "circuit breaker" it says to use "a breaker with time-current curves comparable to the recommended fuse." No other mention is made for recommended breaker size.

So this is what is confusing to me. The only thing that indicates the need for a 50 A circuit is the plug style. The 6-50P outlet I bought at Home Depot says 50 A. The plug supplied with my welder is stamped with 20A.

This welder is the low end for a 230V in power. It tells me I can use a 14AWG extension cord. So it seems that a 50 A circuit is overkill.

So back to my original question. Can this be operated safely on a 30A circuit, and if so how do I plug it in. I realize changing the outlet to a 6-50R on a 30 A circuit is not proper (but would probably work fine if this is the only tool ever used), so thats why I wondered about an "adapter"

 

[HCJtractor]

If you needed a cord that was adaptable, there are 30 amp 120V plugs. I also thought that Miller had this adapter as part of the welder when it was purchased.[/QUOTE]

Two plugs came supplied, a Type 5-15P for 120V and a 6-50P for 230V

 

[HCJtractor]

I ran my Lincoln 255 MIG off a 30 amp circuit for 10 years without a problem. I couldn't upgrade the wiring so I was stuck. Never once tripped a breaker. The welder came with a Nema 6-50 connector (rated for 50 amps) so when I built my garage I ran 100 amp service to it and I finally got it on a 50 amp circuit.

If I'm reading your post right Miller requires a 40 amp circuit but it has a plug on it for a 50 amp circuit. It requires 24.6 amps at max power at 230v. Since breakers are designed to trip at about 20% less than what they are rated for a 30 amp breaker may trip at 24 amps. However the chances of you tripping it are slim to none. I would verify that the existing wire is the correct gauge for the breaker (since there is a chance that you will be operating near the maximum rating). If so then you will be fine if you do as you suggest, make a cord out of thicker wire as an adapter/ extension.

However if you forget and buy something that will use more than the 30 amps your breaker is rated for you will trip it. You'll also risk the chance that if the breaker is defective you could start a fire. Of course it's the same risk you face if you plug something like an AC that requires a 20 amp circuit into a circuit with a 15 amp breaker.

How did you plug in your Miller 255 MIG into a 30 amp circuit? That is my confusion.

 

[HCJtractor]

Ditto on Kenny.

Do you have room in your box for another dual breaker ?

Herein lies the problem. I am using this welder in a friend's garage. He has a230 V outlet there for occasional use. I need to verify the breaker size, but I assume it is a 30A. The existing outlet obviously doesn't mate with my Miller welders plug. Since I am borrowing his space, I am not at liberty to rewire his garage ideally. I can always use it at the 120V mode there, but would rather have the increased power of 230V if it can be done safely.

Could I run this welder off a 8000 W generator? My generator has a 230V outlet, 30A locking plug style. Same question, if so, how do I plug it in?

 

[Sumpter]

To do this the legal way and the right way you need to size your breaker at 125% the load you have and 220 is always better than 120. It is also cheaper in the long run. Less amps are used which mean less power used.

If you have 24.3 amps X 125% that comes to 30.375. The next larger size breaker should be used and that is 40 amps. A 50 is to large and will not protect the circuit properly. You will still use a 50 amp plug since a 40 amp is not made. Your wire size should also be no smaller than a #8.

 

[_RaT_]

The idea is that you should not load a circuit to more than 80% of the breaker rating in other words, a 20 amp breaker should not be continuously loaded over 80% of 20 amps or 16 amps. The exception here is "continuous load". Loading a 30 amp breaker to 24 amps is fine for a welder because I know the duty cycle on the welder you have is not 100% and thus the wire has a cooling period
Your welder has a duty cycle that does not allow it to be continously loaded. Duty cycle plays a role in selecting wire size, its not always just the breaker. A good example of this is the HVAC circuit on your home that runs the compressor, rarely does the wire size match the breaker size, that is, 12 gauge/20 amp 10 gauge/30 amp etc. If you have a 30 amp 240V circuit using number 10 wire, you have the built in assurance you need that the wire is protected. Remember that you rarely weld at the top of current range and on many welders, your duty cycle is reflected by this. It gets complicated, people here always simplify it to wire size to breaker size must match but that is just not the case. That being said, it will less likely result in a fire when you oversize the wire and when that wire is protected by a suitable size breaker.

For your reading fun; http://books.google.com/books?id=8c...duty+cycle&source=bl&ots=2bgqjM8WlG&sig=q9i14

Herein lies the problem. I am using this welder in a friend's garage. He has a230 V outlet there for occasional use. I need to verify the breaker size, but I assume it is a 30A. The existing outlet obviously doesn't mate with my Miller welders plug. Since I am borrowing his space, I am not at liberty to rewire his garage ideally. I can always use it at the 120V mode there, but would rather have the increased power of 230V if it can be done safely.

Could I run this welder off a 8000 W generator? My generator has a 230V outlet, 30A locking plug style. Same question, if so, how do I plug it in?

 

[rjmack]

why not just swap his 240v receptacle with yours while you are using the shop and then swap it back when you are done?

how long does it take to re and re 4 wires?

120v is a joke.

 

[Willl]

Is this your welder ?

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o239988j_mil.pdf

Believe it says 24.3 for rated input amps.

I'd whip up a adapter plug to run off your friends outlet and not look back.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Somewhere in this thread, the OP said that the owners manual stated that the MAXIMUM size fuse or breaker to use was 30 amps so he has a 30 amp breaker which is the max needed. Get a male plug to match the receptacle you want to use and put it on your power cord and start welding. I would avoid adapters and such as many of those will overheat and you really dont know what they have used to make them. Dont overthink the situation with the supplied plugs, disregard the plug issue furnished with the machine. GO with the rating that is specified and put on a 30 amp plug to fit the source and you will have no problems. If the breaker should trip, then it is doing its job, protecting the wiring and your machine, but I dont think you will have an issue with tripping on that machine.

 

[_RaT_]

I agree Gary. The one thing about welders is the huge benefit you get from the user not welding non stop for hours on end. Its not like your running an electric heater for hours or more non stop where the wires supplying the current never get a chance to cool. That is a situation where you must always provide 100% sizing from the wire size chart. What I am curious about after visiting the Miller site is why he does not just use the MVP cordsets that were provided.

Somewhere in this thread, the OP said that the owners manual stated that the MAXIMUM size fuse or breaker to use was 30 amps so he has a 30 amp breaker which is the max needed. Get a male plug to match the receptacle you want to use and put it on your power cord and start welding. I would avoid adapters and such as many of those will overheat and you really dont know what they have used to make them. Dont overthink the situation with the supplied plugs, disregard the plug issue furnished with the machine. GO with the rating that is specified and put on a 30 amp plug to fit the source and you will have no problems. If the breaker should trip, then it is doing its job, protecting the wiring and your machine, but I dont think you will have an issue with tripping on that machine.

 

[_RaT_]

If this is true then I am converting everything to 240V including the clock radios. If I go to 480V do I save even more on power? How about right off the pole?

I'll assume a given device consumes 1200 watts, a hair dryer for example.

12000 volts x .1000 amps = 1200 watts

480 volts X 2.5 amps = 1200 watts

240 volts X 5 amps = 1200 watts

120 volts X 10 amps = 1200 watts

Dang, its still not true


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumpter
.... and 220 is always better than 120. It is also cheaper in the long run. Less amps are used which mean less power used.

I certainly hope that this statement was a senior moment.

 

[rjmack]

.... and 220 is always better than 120. It is also cheaper in the long run. Less amps are used which mean less power used.

so you may use just as many amps (overall) with 240v, but being able to distribute the load must result in some cost savings? it certainly makes the physical wiring task a lot easier, not to mention the difficulty of trying to find a 20a/120v plug that will fit into a 20a/120v receptacle. the 90* spade is always on the wrong side in fact i have been to home depot and the receptacle doesn't match the plug there either.

i have never had anything but bad luck trying to weld with 120v. i have a 120v 'stick' machine that i bought at canadian tire, paid $100.00, it's utterly useless... that i would happily take $5.00 for just so as not to have to fess up that i paid $100.00 for it and ended up taking it to the dump.

 

[rjmack]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...7-electrical-requirements-miller-211-nema.bmp

cool:thumbsup:

 

[crazyal]

How did you plug in your Miller 255 MIG into a 30 amp circuit? That is my confusion.

Simple. I just made an extension cord that plugged into the 30 amp outlet that I could plug my welder into. Since the garage was detached from the house and was wire with two lines going to it, a 20 amp 110 line and a 30 amp 220 line it would have required digging up a patio and running new cable to put anything bigger in. The house only had 100 amp service and had an odd ball panel so that would have needed replacing as well since the only breaker that was rated above 30 amps was for the electric drier.

At first I monitored the current but when it never reached 30 amps I just counted on the breaker doing it's job.

 

[kennyd]

220 is always better than 120. It is also cheaper in the long run. Less amps are used which mean less power used.

\

Like the others are saying, you don't pay for amps used, you pay for watts.