Questions about tractor garage

[raykos]

Hi all,

My house was built with an attached 24'x24' garage, which I turned into a family room. Now, I'd like to build a seperate 24'x24' garage for my JD2305 and implements, and use the same technique for the roof as the original attached garage had. What makes this building method so appealing is there is no centrer load bearing wall; the garage is all open space. I've included rough SketchUp jpg to hopefully show what I mean.

The only thing I've been able to find is that it's a ridge board framed roof; but haven't been able to find anything about the 'W' type of truss underneath the ridge board? Can anybody lead me to more information about this type of roof construction with the 'W' truss? I'd like to duplicate this method and not use trusses.

There's been a lot of discussions about pole garages and barns vs. tradional stick building/framing; but, one of the things I couldn't find(maybe just didn't use the right search words) deals with insulating the pole type structures. It seems that in order to insulate a pole structure, you have to have tradional 16" or 24" OC framing inside, in order to hold the insulation and any wall material? So why not just build a frame structure to begin with?

If I could put up a pole type structure it would probably be easier, but then there's the issue of insulating; would I be building a frame structure anyhow?

 

[tommu56]

If you don't need the "attic" space use trusses they will freespan what ever you want to do.
Lay out the walls and tell the lumber yard plate dimensions and how much overhang you want and they will engineer it.

They need more information like roof and ceeling type and insulation.

If you want attic space you can have space made into the truss ask the lumber yard for info.


24' with 12" of overhang is usually stock around here they would go on 24"
centers.

Don't forget door height measure the roll bar and see what door height and work the wall height from that. It usually takes about 12" above door for track so if you have a 8' door you need 9' minimum on wall side to work that in. You will regret having door too low and having to lower roll bar every time you put it away.


here is a links to truss pictures
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/project_images/roof_trusses/Trusses%201.jpg

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/project_images/roof_trusses/Trusses%202.jpg

tom

 

[raykos]

Addendum:

Should have the word "metal" in front of "pole".

 

[MikeInEburg]

I agree with the concept of using trusses. It takes the guesswork out. Also, depending on how close to the house it will be situated, consider putting siding that matches the house. May cost more, but makes it visually more attractive.
Mike

 

[tommu56]

Is there a reason you don't want to use trusses?

To insulate pole buildings you use 4' wide faces rolls of insulation.

If you are insulating the walls you should insulate the floor.

What type of metal pole building frame ,siding?

I had a crew from Clinton county put my pole barn (wood frame metal siding) up with concrete floor done in 3 days less door I wanted 8' door and they had to order it. I figured it would have taken me 3 months on weekends to get it done.

It sounds like you want a
hunched slab floor with insulation.
stick built walls with insulation
stick built roof with out any center support
all can be done.

but more wood = more money

tom

 

[LD1]

Did you do that drawing yourself or find it somewhere on the internet.

The problem with it is there is 24' for open space that is unsupported where the roof needs to be. You will have to add rafters every two or so feet, and then you have basically built a truss, only a lot more inefficentally. As asked earlier, is there any reason at all why you wouldn't want to use a pre-fabbed truss. Around here a 24' truss made for 2' centers only runs about $30-$40 last I checked. For 24' you would need 13 of them which would only be 400-500 bucks. Well spent money for the time involved and the peice of mind.

To answer the question about conventional vs pole frame, from my experience the pole frame is a little stronger, due the the heavier lumber every 8 or 10 ft, and also a little cheaper to build because you don't have to have a footer dug and poured. As fot the insulation, instead of running 16" wide vertacally, you just buy 24" and run it horizontally along the walls. It is also a little easier to wire up as well since you dont have to drill holes every 16" through the studs.

 

[Just Bill]

I just finished a 24x36 stick built shop/storage building.
The walls are 9' 2x6, cieling joists are 12x24, roof is 2x6 with 8/12 pitch.
By adding 2 - 3' knee walls and 2 short walls inside I added a room that is 16x32 open storage with 4' crawl spaces on each side.
It maybe overkill but it sure is nice.

 

[LBrown59]

Hi all,

My house was built with an attached 24'x24' garage, which I turned into a family room. Now, I'd like to build a seperate 24'x24' garage for my JD2305 and implements, and use the same technique for the roof as the original attached garage had. What makes this building method so appealing is there is no centrer load bearing wall; the garage is all open space. I've included rough SketchUp jpg to hopefully show what I mean.

The only thing I've been able to find is that it's a ridge board framed roof; but haven't been able to find anything about the 'W' type of truss underneath the ridge board? Can anybody lead me to more information about this type of roof construction with the 'W' truss? I'd like to duplicate this method and not use trusses.

There's been a lot of discussions about pole garages and barns vs. tradional stick building/framing; but, one of the things I couldn't find(maybe just didn't use the right search words) deals with insulating the pole type structures. It seems that in order to insulate a pole structure, you have to have tradional 16" or 24" OC framing inside, in order to hold the insulation and any wall material? So why not just build a frame structure to begin with?

If I could put up a pole type structure it would probably be easier, but then there's the issue of insulating; would I be building a frame structure anyhow?

Foam insulate it or you could use blown.

 

[CurlyDave]

The last time I bought trusses, the finished, engineered (with PE stamped plans) trusses, were less expensive than buying the lumber and building them myself. This is the way to go.

If you want storage over the rafters, ask for an attic style truss, which will give you one long storage area in the center. A hatchway at the 1/4 and 3/4 points will allow storage of light items by using a stepladder. This is exactly the design I am using on my new detached garage.

 

[rambler]

As the others say, pre-made trusses are a commodity product these days & a lot cheaper than trying to make your own. And easier to get through any local building codes. The design you picture is a rather inefficient looking way to brace a roof, and so the rafters will need to be bigger than with a good truss.

Pole buildingg makers and most lumber yards can get their hands on fiberglass insulation in 6, 8, or 9 foot wide batts that you hang against the metal wall between the poles of the pole building. Place 2x4 horizontals across the inside every 2 feet apart, and screw your interior metal onto the 2x4s. Works pretty well, cost can be a little less than framing out a building on 16 or 24 inch centers.

--->Paul

 

[raykos]

Thanks to all for the responses, some good info & advise.

Yes, the idea of trusses is appealing; but unfortunately, here in central Pa. the price range is not $30-$40. Example, I called 84 Lumber and ask about prices of a standard truss for a 24x24 garage...they start at $65, and if I wanted 'storage' or 'attic' type, prices go way up. A 2x8x14 at Lowes is $9.68 & a 2x10x14 is $10.52; couldn't find any prices on 24' lengths. If I went with the 2x10's, 4 of them would be $42.00 vs. $65.00, or more.


'LD1'
I used Google SketchUp to make the drawing. I omitted all the roof rafters, because I wanted to show the 'W' type of truss I was wondering about. My house was built in 1968 & I don't know if that type of ceiling/roof construction was the method at the time, or if that was the way my contractor did it. Whatever the case, it's been fine for 41 yr's.

And, since it seems that wiring & insulation are no big deal for a metal building, I'm now looking into those, along with kits & prefabs.

Again, thanks for the info & advice, do appreciate it.

Ray

 

[powergod]

making your own trusses maybe a little cheaper but how much time does it take and what is your time worth. plus pre build trusses puts the math and load bearing ability on someone else

 

[tommu56]

There is 2 truss manufactures one near lockhaven one in cogan station nw of williamsport

check check the box stores too

There is some on line truss designs or stick frame it cealing rafters and roof joists sized right could span that with out a center support.

what about a steel girder running front to back with support at each end only


tom

 

[Builder]

Thanks to all for the responses, some good info & advise.

Yes, the idea of trusses is appealing; but unfortunately, here in central Pa. the price range is not $30-$40. Example, I called 84 Lumber and ask about prices of a standard truss for a 24x24 garage...they start at $65, and if I wanted 'storage' or 'attic' type, prices go way up. A 2x8x14 at Lowes is $9.68 & a 2x10x14 is $10.52; couldn't find any prices on 24' lengths. If I went with the 2x10's, 4 of them would be $42.00 vs. $65.00, or more.


'LD1'
I used Google SketchUp to make the drawing. I omitted all the roof rafters, because I wanted to show the 'W' type of truss I was wondering about. My house was built in 1968 & I don't know if that type of ceiling/roof construction was the method at the time, or if that was the way my contractor did it. Whatever the case, it's been fine for 41 yr's.

And, since it seems that wiring & insulation are no big deal for a metal building, I'm now looking into those, along with kits & prefabs.

Again, thanks for the info & advice, do appreciate it.

Ray

I build garages, additions and homes for a living. Just one question: When you say "W Truss" are you referring to the ridge pole being supported by the W-shaped ridge pole props?

I would suggest a pole barn if "looks" are not as important and a stick built garage if things like siding, brick, stucco are needed on the exterior. More expensive, but my higher income customers need their detached garages to match their higher end homes.



Me? I'd put a nice pole barn on a million dollar property in a heartbeat. I think they make a property look "agricultural" instead of snotty.

 

[raykos]

'Builder',

Yes, the 'W' truss I'm referring to is supporting the ridge board. I've included another view showing those supports and also another view of the 'L' shaped beam the supports and ceiling joists are nailed to. Again, I've omitted the roof rafters in order to see the 'W' support & 'L' beam.

'powergod',

I'm retired, so time isn't as critical as it used to be....but money sure is!

 

[MikeInEburg]

making your own trusses maybe a little cheaper but how much time does it take and what is your time worth. plus pre build trusses puts the math and load bearing ability on someone else

I second this. Not only do you need the raw wood, but the straps/connectors, nails and a great big space to put it together. And they all need to match.

If you don't want to use a truss, consider steel I-beams - one down the middle and one at each end (forming a giant sideways H). Trusses are still less expensive.

Mike

 

[Builder]

'Builder',

Yes, the 'W' truss I'm referring to is supporting the ridge board. I've included another view showing those supports and also another view of the 'L' shaped beam the supports and ceiling joists are nailed to. Again, I've omitted the roof rafters in order to see the 'W' support & 'L' beam.

That's nothing unique. The problem is, a lot of framing carpenters omit this type of angle brace in favor of a few simple vertical ridge pole prop.

Your "W" configuration ridge pole prop is nicely done and will keep the ridge pole straighter and stronger than vertical ridge pole props.

 

[tommu56]

Look at the parallel cord truss in the link earlier that is what you want use or to mimic
You could build one or check a truss mfg for that cost.

The biggest part is engineering it to carry the load

tom

 

[Duffster]

I don't understand why your trusses would be that much more money than they are here.

I just got two 40' trusses for 8' centers, with a custom tray and tail design, for unders $200 a peice delivered.

 

[bota7800]

Me? I'd put a nice pole barn on a million dollar property in a heartbeat. I think they make a property look "agricultural" instead of snotty.

That is the look I prefer as well.

There was a barn builder near where I lived when I was in CO that specialized in wood sided high end barns. I have seen his barns on multimillion dollar properties down in high priced Boulder, Colorado. They looked really nice because they were definitely barns, not more of the house, but did not look like a metal sided outbuilding either.