Gear drive vs hydro

[jake98]

Think this thread will ever get to the 'y's' ? Howcome it costs more? Not knowing, I'd guarantee yous that it's like lite beer. Weighs less, less moving parts, better for you, more better for them, so they charge more.

jake

 

[Reg]

Think this thread will ever get to the 'y's' ? Howcome it costs more? Not knowing, I'd guarantee yous that it's like lite beer. Weighs less, less moving parts, better for you so they charge more.

The price is higher because people will pay it, it is not clear that it costs more (to make).

With milk they can make more money by removing some of the fat.
1% or 2% milk is marketable as a health feature.
They make even more money by putting that removed fat into "half and half", whose marketable feature is probably "richness without excess fat".

Never mind that people will put both products in the same shopping cart on the same day and pay extra for both over regular "full fat milk".

I can't say I believe that any beer is in any way "better for you" or better for anyone else.
Better than acid or caustic soda maybe, but in no sense GOOD for anyone.

 

[jake98]

Man, it's been called cornflakes in a can. Used since the dawn of civ. because it's almost always safer than the water.

I wonder if anybody has an estimate of what a gear trans weighs compared with it's pistoned tormentor?

 

[scott_vt]

REAL MEN drive gear tractors with HAND CRANK to start. If you got and use an electric start on your tractor then you are just a poser and should sit down and shut up and let the BONIFIED REAL MEN with crank start lay down the law to those upstart HST kids.

Pat

Good Evenin Pat,
Absolutely agreed !!!

Darn, should have disconnected those darn electric lights first !

 

[patrick_g]

Good Evenin Pat,
Absolutely agreed !!!

Darn, should have disconnected those darn electric lights first !

Scotty, For you I will make an exception. You can comment on my transmission (and spinner-no spinner) even though you have electric lights A_N_D those high maint rubber tires.

Thanks for the pix of really nice old tractors.

Pat

 

[Reg]

Man, it's been called cornflakes in a can. Used since the dawn of civ. because it's almost always safer than the water.

I wonder if anybody has an estimate of what a gear trans weighs compared with it's pistoned tormentor?

Ahh yes, alcohol as an antiseptic/disinfectant, wine safer than local water, whatever excuse for a buzz.

"Cornflakes in a can" doesn't apply to REAL (European) beer, by law.

"Idiot soup" was one of my father's expressions, can't say I disagree.

 

[WilliamBos]

I would not give mu HST for any old gear tranny, would have to be something special, like a Dynashift, or a Dynastep(Vario).

 

[jake98]

Ahh yes, alcohol as an antiseptic/disinfectant, wine safer than local water, whatever excuse for a buzz.

"Cornflakes in a can" doesn't apply to REAL (European) beer, by law.

"Idiot soup" was one of my father's expressions, can't say I disagree.

My father threw the i word around too. We all try not to turn into someone else.
Not sure about the 'flavour' of your exp., but soup wasn't part of my education, in that sense..

Jake

 

[jake98]

Now I feel bad, gave Reg a negative flamin...
like an unflame. a flameout.

just got to thinking about the negitives since welding yesterday.
sure am glad the hot stuff (all around my shoes) was not on my trousers when i lifted the mask up.
made a couple welded patches on the ..auger.. (must be called the paddle?) of a no auger snowthrower...
blowers have a ? blower, throwers have a paddle up a creek i guess.
gotta go, beer's here. jake

 

[N80]

Patrick, I have to admit, when I read your post about your experience, I had two thoughts, crappy tractor (loader function) and not-to-good operator.

I have no reason to doubt that HSt would have made the work you are describing easier.

However, if we are going to talk about experience. I have pretty significant experience working around gear tractors in the hands of experienced operators. Primarily my B-I-L farmer. We have done countless tasks with him on his older, JD ag tractor with FEL. Everything from lifting and moving, and working on down cows. Barn construction. Cabin construction. Loading large bales of hay onto trucks and trailers. Lifting, loading and moving virtually anything you can imagine including various sheds and vehicles. And I can say without hesitation that I have never felt like I in a dangerous situation...and I've been doing these sorts of things with him for close to 20 years, so its been long enough to know and no longer be naive about it. He's good, and he's good with a gear tractor. And while I'd bet he'd be more efficient with an HST, not much more. And not a nit more precise or safe.

And here's the other thing. Over the last few years that I've been a tractor owner, he's come to trust me when I'm the one on the tractor and he's the guy on the ground. And he does not suffer fools or incompetence....which my wife clearly does...but that's a different story.

So sure, you've given a great example of a task for which an HST is just the thing. But the operator is still, in my opinion, the most important thing. Someone who is dangerous on a gear tractor is probably going to be dangerous on just about anything else.

And I have to be honest with you guys, I'm pretty down right now. I've been gone for about three days now and I just assumed this thread would die without my pointless blathering. But it looks like I'm not needed for that anymore. Sigh.

 

[jake98]

[OUOTE]:And I have to be honest with you guys, I'm pretty down right now. I've been gone for about three days now and I just assumed this thread would die without my pointless blathering. But it looks like I'm not needed for that anymore. Sigh


how does he say it? "I dont care whoooo you are..... THAAATS FUUUUNNY...

 

[WilliamBos]

Now if'n you be average Joe and feel a tractor is an implement that can aid you in doing whatever you wish to do then you don't give a damm about what type of transmission you be using as long as it does best what you wish it to do!

Amen to that!!

 

[jake98]

EGON Waxing poetic. I for one, am proud. How do we sing the anthem?
Jake

"Bag of rattlin bones, way away from home, what a what can I say I ? Been a bogglin minds all the days i find not a what not more than mine..." sing three more times then fall down...

not a jig..

 

[jake98]

Not sure you get eight smiley faces after bashing a Beechcraft.

 

[MossRoad]

Not sure you get eight smiley faces after bashing a Beechcraft.

The pilot's face looked more like this....

 

[tallyho8]

I've kept out of this thread long enough and now it is time for me to up my post count! After using an indeterminate amount of my time reading ALL of the previous posts it looks to me as this discussion revolves around the following main arguments:
1. Price
2. Reliability
3. Amount of HP loss with HST
4. Ease and speed of use

1. Price:
Starting with price, I will give MY opinions. I recently bought a L4400HST. There is NO set price for either. I keep hearing that an HST costs $2000 more than a gear model. This is simply not true. The MSRP may be $2000 more but few sales are at the MSRP. I shopped around before I bought my HST and found that dealers that had HSTs on their lot would offer me a lower price for one than dealers who had only gear models on their lots and the dealer with only a gear model on his lot would offer me a lower price on a gear model than a dealer with only HSTs on his lot. The lowest offer I had on an HST was only $500 higher than the lowest offer I had on an identical gear model. (And yes, I do haggle with my tractor dealer just as I do with a car dealer instead of paying his first asking price.)

Now, does it really mean that the tractor costs $500 more just because you pay $500 more for it? Not if you sell it 10 years from now for $1000 more than the gear models are selling for. And since HST models are so much in demand the resale value is much more. If it is a casualty, then your insurance company will pay you back more for it so it costs no more in that situation either. Even if you keep it the rest of your life and your heirs sell it for more than the gear tractor sells for, it isn't costing more, it just raises their inheritance. They get a tractor worth $1000 more instead of getting $500 more in cash.

Yes, a quality tractor can be an investment just as your home is. How many of you could have bought a home thousands of dollars cheaper than you did but decided to buy the better more expensive one instead. Even though you originally pay more for the home does not mean it costs you more because you get the money back when you sell it. (usually)

When I was young, back in my drag racing years, I always bought standards instead of automatics for the thrill of popping clutches and shifting gears and because it was the "manly" thing to do, and also because the standards were faster until 1965 when the Dodge hydro finally beat the gear models. My last standard was a 1982 Bronco that was very hard to sell because no one wanted a standard and I had to sell it much cheaper than the automatics were selling for. Now I see the same situations around here with gear tractors.

2. Reliability:
To be continued because it is 11:30 now and I need my sleep and besides, I can up my post count by continuing another day.

 

[Reg]

Probably more relevant on forkliftsbynet or beechcraftsbynet.
HERE we are/were talking about tractors.

WRT the point about price;
To ME (I am talking about MY perspective) it is NOT about the purchase price differential for same/similar tractor with hydro/gear trans.
Whether discounted, not invested in a failing economy (oops, don't save $1K or $2K to buy GM stock or get yourself into a bigger mortgage), passed to heirs as money or (by then) collectible tractor hardware.

It is about NOT having to buy a smaller and less powerful hydro tractor for approx the same money as the larger and more powerful gear tractor. (~35 vs ~40 was mentioned by someone).
It is also about NOT getting on the sales escalator, e.g. having fixed a limit of $xyK for the tractor and wanting as much tractor as I can get for that, the salesdroid presents a nmHP gear tractor. Once I'm convinced that anything smaller won't do all my chores as well or as quickly - zinger, for ONLY a few % more I can have a different trans. It is HARD to stick to the budget at that point and ask how much smaller of a tractor comes with that trans for the same price as the gear tractor we discussed a minute ago. C'mon, it only adds a few bux a month to the payments and at 0% for 72 months, etc.
Nope, I'm paying ca$h, but this is all I have.

GENERALLY the bigger, heavier, more powerful tractor for the same money is better value (Again, to ME !, for the tasks that I do) for a given dollar price.

It isn't about finding a pathological case in which one type of transmission has an advantage over the other and holding that up as representative of all the tasks that I am likely to do with a tractor.