Wireless networks -- How secure are they?

[Dargo]

I agree with Bob about the limited range for high speed. Also, depending upon the construction of your house, the distance may be even more limited. I owned a computer company up until a few years ago and have always had the "latest and greatest" in my house. For a while, that included the best WiFi network. My problem was that I had to have 2 repeaters just to get the signal throughout my house. Forget it outside even with illegal boosters along with the repeaters!

My wireless network was really secure. I couldn't even get into it! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif It took some work and learning a new talent to crawl in tight spaces and the fine art of using a fish tape to wire my house, pool house, and barn, but I like it much better than the wireless setup. I have some of the best available wireless equipment, along with a booster that has since been banned by the FCC for having too much power. It is not illegal to own and use it, they just had to quit making it. It's all packed back in it's original box if anyone is interested. It includes all information as to how to encrypt your network so nobody without professional eavesdropping equipment can tap in.

You can be reasonably secure using the encryption measures provided with the equipment, but don't believe that any of it is 100% secure. If you are broadcasting, it can be received with the right equipment and knowledge. The only way to be totally secure is to be wired. Then, if you are on a full time internet connection, that is not guaranteed secure. Even the best mechanical and software firewall systems can be defeated.

I'm not trying to make anyone paranoid, but I can get into most systems that people think are secure. And, I've been out of that business for years. Wireless works fine if you are not that far from the source, and if you do not have much metal in the construction of your house. Steel beams and the like play havoc with wireless systems. I'm currently over 600' from my source and have no problems at all. There again, I'm wired. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[ShaleniFarm]

Henro,

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ... unauthorized use of your wireless network would be little different from someone's unauthorized use of you phone line, which is easily accomplished at the phone junction box on the side of you house (just open, unplug one wire, and plug in a standard telephone...)
)</font>

It is quite different, due to the lack of "physicalness" of wireless technology. No one has to "touch" anything or even trespass to use the wireless signal. Unlike tapping into your phone junction. (Plus there are federal laws against that...)
Most of the techs I know and boards I read indicate that it is up to the source to protect itself. Not sure where the law will end up, (or has already ended up.) But, if you broadcast an "open net", it is on you to protect it.

Have a good one,
Neil.

 

[MikePA]

More information from the Comcast Acceptable Use Policy follows. BTW, I am not a Comcast subscriber. I imagine most other broadband providers have similar provisions.

To allow others to use your broadband Internet connection, whether by accident or design, would probably be considered theft of service.

Info from Comcast site...

As a Service customer, it is your responsibility to secure your computer equipment so that it is not subject to external threats such as viruses, spam, and other methods of intrusion. Failure to comply with these or any other Comcast policies could result in the suspension or termination of your Service. If you do not agree to comply with all of these policies including the AUP, you must immediately stop use of the Service and notify Comcast so that your account may be closed.

Security
You are responsible for any misuse of the Service, even if the misuse was committed by a friend, family member, or guest with access to your Service account. Therefore, you must take steps to ensure that others do not use your account to gain unauthorized access to the Service by, for example, strictly maintaining the confidentiality of your Service login and password. In all cases, you are solely responsible for the security of any device you choose to connect to the Service, including any data stored or shared on that device. Comcast recommends against enabling file or printer sharing of any sort unless you do so in strict compliance with all security recommendations and features provided by Comcast and the manufacturer of the applicable file or printer sharing devices. Any files or devices you choose to make available for shared access on a home LAN, for example, should be protected with a strong password or as otherwise appropriate.

Also prohibited is...
(x) connect multiple computers behind the cable modem to set up a LAN (Local Area Network) that in any manner would result in a violation of the terms of this Policy or an applicable Service plan;

 

[Hank]

<font color="purple"> With a directional antenna, our wireless network works 17 miles away </font>

I am 32 miles from my wireless ISP's radio, on a mountaintop that is also 1 mile higher than my elevation. From that mountaintop, the WISP backhauls over three more 30+ mile hops to get to their land-based T3. My typical wireless Internet speeds are 1Mbps down and 256Kbps up.

 

[gws]

Moss, just to play devils advocate here, but for a rural homeowner (which most of us on TBN are) who don't have houses within a couple hundred feet of their own house (again that includes most TBN users) and with the distance limitations of most of the 802.11 networks I guess I fail to see how security is a real problem for the typical TBN user who might install a wireless network.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
I can connect to my neighbors router a mile away with a 2ft dish, I can hear it but not hold a connection with a small yagi (beam). If I would add a preamp and amp I can go longer ranges. We have a local ISP with wireless access, He covers out 20 miles from 3 transmitters sites.I can hear his site all over the state when flying in small plane and can connect much of time. Granted the line of site is good, but dont think the 150ft limit is a real world limit. Only a marketing one.
)</font>

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I think there is some confusion here. There is a difference between the wireless internet service providers and an in home local wireless network using 802.11 protocals.

 

[OkeeDon]

I looked at the Adelphia terms of service, and they are nowhere near as draconian as those cited from Comcast. As far as bandwidth, they reserve the right to either limit or add a surcharge, but are doing neither in my area currently.

Here is the sharing paragraph: "Assignment or sharing of Adelphia Broadband Service. You agree that You shall not use the Adelphia Broadband Service as an Internet service information provider (“ISP”). You agree that you shall not resell, share, give away, redistribute, sublicense or otherwise distribute the Adelphia Broadband Service or any portion hereof to any third party in any manner without the prior written consent of Adelphia.
For example, but without limitation, You may not provide Internet access to others through your connection, host shell accounts, provide e-mail or news services to others, or send or store a news feed."

As you can see, they are primarily concerned with your acting as an ISP and reselling the service. They do have the phrase about sharing or giving away the service to a "third party", but it's apparent to me from the tone of the paragraph that a "third party" is an arms-length transaction, not a friend, guest or family member.

With regards to Comcast's hugely restrictive term about networking, Adelphia simply says they won't provide support for such a use. They don't even attempt to forbid it.

When we move to Okeechobee, I plan to use outdoor antennas to broadcast the wireless service over my entire property. I expect to have occasional guests stop by with their RV's, and plan to permit them access to my system. Of course, friends or family who stop by with their laptops will also be granted access. Because our property is long and narrow, however (about 1200' x 300'), and because the long side is next to a state highway, I will setup WAP or whatever it's called to require at least a password to get access. I hardly expect droves of cars to be parked on the swale along the highway, using my internet connection. Like now, 99% of the time will be used by my wife and I. If I brought everyone I knew with a wireless connection together at one time, it would be a total of maybe 12 computers and if everyone was surfing as fast as they could, I doubt we would exceed the bandwidth of one teenager downloading music.

In other words, it's simply a non-issue.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> I hardly expect droves of cars to be parked on the swale along the highway, using my internet connection. </font>

OK, but if you see a silver Volvo out there and want to meet me feel free to bring me coffee. Black, no sugar. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif A muffin would be nice too.

 

[MossRoad]

Now you're talkin'... Don's Internet Cafe. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[OkeeDon]

My son-in-law (next door to my Okeechobee property) talked to the state trooper who sometimes uses his driveway as a radar spot. The trooper said he'd appreciate the broadband access and would be likely to spend a lot more time there... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[gws]

The only thing different is the the sign on procedure. Same cards, some freq, same protocols.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I think there is some confusion here. There is a difference between the wireless internet service providers and an in home local wireless network using 802.11 protocals.
)</font>

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue"> "The only thing different is the the sign on procedure. Same cards, some freq, same protocols." </font>

Something I'm curious about. When I take my laptop near a wireless network, it automatically detects it and offers to try to sign me on. Do the community-wide wireless networks (WISPs) work the same way? If so, what a heck of a free marketing deal that is for the WISP...

 

[gws]

THe community wide systems, wifi cafe etc are the say way. Most however also force your first web access to be re-directed to their local web page for either further instructions or at a minimum rules for using there network.

 

[jpr62902]

Thanks for all the info, everyone. Gatorboy, I would have hardwired everything if I had exercised a little forethought, but since I didn't and I already finished my basement, wireless is the way I'd prefer to go now. Also, I'm trying to exercise some belated forethought for our next house, if we don't build and just buy someone else's money pit.

 

[sendero]

Lots of good info here, and mostly reflects my experience.

I have six computers at my house, spread all over. I was able to wire all but two. They are in a wing that is really hard to get into the attic, I tried a couple times and decided it wasn't worth it.

I'll just say this - I'm a computer junkie from back before most people had any idea what a "personal computer" was. I love computers, I love the net, and up until a couple years ago made my living programming them.

I you have no choice, use a wireless network. But they are an unmitigated pain in the posterior as far as I'm concerned.

First, despite claims of high throughput and little graphs showing great signal strength - the internet performance of the boxes on the wireless network is just noticably less than those that are wired.

Second, you can make a wireless network secure, but it is work. And if there is one little thing you don't know or don't do right, it is not secure.

Third, and this could be specific to my hardware (DLink AP and LinkSys cards), the thing is just not all that stable. I find myself having to re-init the access point periodically. Sometimes one of the boxes forgets its WEP encryption code and I have to re-enter it. This is probably a software issue on that particular machine, but it is a PITA nonetheless.

Wireless is great if you have no other choice. But it would never be my first choice /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> It is quite different, due to the lack of "physicalness" of wireless technology. No one has to "touch" anything or even trespass to use the wireless signal. Unlike tapping into your phone junction. (Plus there are federal laws against that...) </font>

Neil, now I could be wrong, but somehow I think I heard that it is illegal to listen in on wireless phone conversations...

No why would it be legal for someone to tap in on a wireless access point without authorization? Seeing the the way things work in this country I would not doubt you may be correct though.

But it does sound like this is the same as saying if I don't lock my front door, then I am responsible when a thief comes in and does bad things...Again I don't doubt that this argument has probably been used to get a thief off the hook in a court of law... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Henro]

sendero,

We are almost two sides of a coin. I find this interesting every time I run into this kind of situation...

In our case we also have six computers, and all but one are connected to the access point wirelessly. Two are laptops. I also have a pocket PC now, that is wifi enabled and it is also tied to the internet via a wireless link.

We did standardize on hardware though, and the cable modem and wireless router/access point are Linksys. As are most of the cards in the PCs. I forget what my daughter is using in her MAC, and the pocket PC has wifi built in...

Anyway, we don't find the speed bad at all. And the ability to tie into the internet without cables laying across the floor is priceless, with the laptops and so on. Things have been really almost totally reliable. Once in a blue moon we need to reset the router or cable modem. It has been so long since I had to do it I forget which I did last.

For us, wireless is great, regardless of the other choices out there.

I like computers as a tool, but hate them when they make me think...like when they stop working and require hours of problems solving and learning things to get them working again, while all the time knowing that what was learned will be long forgetten before it is needed again...

In a nut shell, I'm a wireless fan... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> Third, and this could be specific to my hardware (DLink AP and LinkSys cards), the thing is just not all that stable. </font>
This is your problem, mixing brands. I've had 2 wireless systems, (Orinoco 802.11b and now Belkin 802.11n) where the AP and the cards came from the same manufacturer. No problems.

 

[ShaleniFarm]

Bill:
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ..why would it be legal for someone to tap in on a wireless access point without authorization? )</font>

Excellent points. As I said, I still think this is an open issue. Perhaps the only difference to snatching cell or wireless phone signals is the federal rules against it. As one website says " </font><font color="blue" class="small">( The FCC told me that they don't know of any federal or state laws that make it illegal to log on to an open network. )</font> " Is a "public" access point de facto authorization to use it?

Bottom line (for me, anyway) is this: There are public and private wi-fi nets. Don't try to break into a private one. It is up to the broadcast end to decide whether they are private or public. Believe me, there are ways to lock it down enough and ways to track who is trying to get in.

Time will tell on whether any laws get passed. Until then, if you have a wireless setup, protect it a little. If not, you can expect someone (without going into distance limitations) to try and sniff your wi-fi.

Have a good one, /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Neil.

 

[gws]

Neil, now I could be wrong, but somehow I think I heard that it is illegal to listen in on wireless phone conversations...
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Its illegal to listen to cell phones but legal to listen to cordless phones.
)</font>