Why not sugar water in tires instead of beet juice?

[bmaverick]

What are you finding in a price per gallon, for the RV?

The best sale was $1 for 1-gallon back in 2018. Walmart was clearing the shelves of it.

Other sales were $1.59 and $2.19 compared to full price.

 

[Cougsfan]

First question I'd have asked is "What the heck grade of stainless are they made from?" Second would be "They did fire the idiot engineer who specced them yes?"

It irks me when people make smart-ass derogatory replies. Having spent 40 years as a food processing engineer, I have seen a lot of stainless steel that was badly corroded. From worse to better; 304, 304L, 316, 316L, and 317L, are the common commercial grades available suitable for corrosive conditions. All of them can and do corrode under certain circumstances. Cost becomes a major factor, availability from suppliers becomes a factor. Sometimes you can only use what you can get. The more exotic alloys like Titanium, Hastelloy and Inconel may be appropriate in a lab, but are seldom a practical or cost effective solution for most industrial installations (there are exceptions). Improper sanitation procedures by under-trained sanitation crews is a common and major factor. Perhaps the inexperience of an engineer might be a cause, but usually the stupidity of the engineer is pretty dang low on the list of factors.

Plastic components are often a better corrosion resistant solution, but sometimes you can't use plastic because of strength or temperature considerations.

In regards to the OPs situation; I'd be reluctant to use sugar water. There are to many unknowns. Corrosion may be an issue, especially if the tires are tubeless. If the concentration is high, I can see the sugar coming out of solution at cold temperatures potentially causing issues. It may work but has unknown risks. If you don't want to take the time and expense to go somewhere for beet juice, then windshield washer fluid is the probably the most affordable option that you can do fairly easily by yourself.

 

[Raul-02]

Titanium, Hastelloy and Inconel may be appropriate in a lab, b

I've often imagined the utility of a Boat hull clad in inconell. Imagine the Maintainance issues one wouldn't have. no barnacles. no corrosion, no antifouling painting, no zinc ingots.

 

[Cougsfan]

I've often imagined the utility of a Boat hull clad in inconell. Imagine the Maintainance issues one wouldn't have. no barnacles. no corrosion, no antifouling painting, no zinc ingots.

No money left in your bank account

 

[Raul-02]

I assume beet juice is used because of all the sugar dissolved into the beet juice.

Why do you assume that? Does the presence of Sugar inhibit corrosion? Beet juice has some natural corrosion inhibitiors.
In theory, you could use a water soluble and biodegradable Machining cutting fluid concentrate. Maybe a gallon per tire mixed with water. I was considering that and then I realized I already owned a huge steel box I wasn't using.

 

[orezok]

you need something to inhibit corrosion

I threw a couple of bottles of radiator anti rust in each water filled tire. Made for rubber and all metals.

 

[M59]

I've often imagined the utility of a Boat hull clad in inconell. Imagine the Maintainance issues one wouldn't have. no barnacles. no corrosion, no antifouling painting, no zinc ingots.

Raul-02,

Not to burst your bubble on NiCr bearing metals ( Inconell ) but they are subject to fouling. USN is focused on some really interesting surface texture types that prevent organic material from attaching to the surface as fouling costs a billion+ dollars a year to manage.

Little abstract for your viewing pleasure.

Newly Developed Antifouling Coating Alloys for Hydraulic Cylinder Applications

In a marine environment solid surfaces are subject to corrosion and fouling, which is the buildup of unwanted material such as algae and barnacles, that can impede the functionality of components. The application that this project focuses on are hydraulic cylinders. Eight alloys, including three...

digitalcommons.calpoly.edu

In a marine environment solid surfaces are subject to corrosion and fouling, which is the buildup of unwanted material such as algae and barnacles, that can impede the functionality of components. The application that this project focuses on are hydraulic cylinders. Eight alloys, including three newly developed alloys, were tested for marine fouling performance. Three of the alloys were primarily NiCr, these included Inconel 625, Metco 1720, and P105-X3. Four alloys contained varying amounts of Cu, and these were Monel 400, CuproNickel, Monel 450, and P76-X24. Finally, one sample of a Co-based alloy was also tested, Ultimet. Of the samples tested, Metco 1720, P105-X3, and P76-X24 were developed by Oerlikon Metco, a company that focuses on new alloy development, characterization, and testing. The other alloys are commercially available. The samples were immersed in the ocean at the Cal Poly Pier for nine weeks before being removed to assess how each alloy performed in a marine environment. Built up fouling was quantitatively measured by mass of fouling and surface area covered by fouling. Corrosion was assessed using mass lost to corrosion as well as visual inspection. Of the NiCr alloys, Inconel 625 was the least fouled with 0.5882g of fouling covering 28.29% of the surface, and P105-X3 was the most fouled with 1.7423g of fouling covering 48.66% of the surface. A correlation was found between amassed fouling and the presence of hard phases in the alloys. With the Cu containing alloys, the fouling resistance was largely controlled by the Cu content; more Cu resulted in better resistance to fouling. The exception was the P76-X24 with 16% Cu, which exhibited a fouling resistance equivalent to that of Monel 400 which has 30% Cu. The Ultimet was the most fouled sample with a mass of 1.7567g covering 61.23% of the surface.

 

[Cougsfan]

So a Copper bottomed boat may be better than an Inconel bottomed boat. I will keep that in mind the next time I want to put a new bottom coating on my yacht. But I would bet gold might work even better.

 

[M59]

So a Copper bottomed boat may be better than an Inconel bottomed boat. I will keep that in mind the next time I want to put a new bottom coating on my yacht. But I would bet gold might work even better.

In order of best to worst for metals capable of controlling biological growth ( fouling ) Lead, silver, copper.
EPA has banned lead, silver is way to expensive, so that leaves copper.

Ever wonder why older homes have a strip directly below a chimney that always stays clean? Erosion of the copper flashing around the chimney and running down the roof and kills algae growth on roof directly below chimney.

Gold being essentially nonreactive has no effect on biologics.

 

[Raul-02]

Not to burst your bubble on NiCr bearing metals ( Inconell ) but they are subject to fouling.

Awww Man and I had a 300 foot yacht planned

 

[Raul-02]

I threw a couple of bottles of radiator anti rust i

great idea. I didn't even know that this existed.

 

[SF82]

I hear you on environmental concerns, but it's probably not a problem.

People don't use regular old green poisonous ethylene glycol radiator antifreeze to mix with water for loading tires. It does look like Gatorade and it has a sweet attractive tasted.....But if it leaks, it kills growing things. Plus any animal that drinks it will die - although not easily. Kids are at risk.

RV antifreeze - the pink fluid stuff you put in pipes for winter storage - is what people use to mix with water for loading tires. It is propylene glycol. It has all the temperature & mixing advantages as the green radiator fluid, costs about the same, sits on the next shelf at the auto parts place, and best of all it is not-poisonous. In fact it is used in food prep.

I don't load tires myself. More trouble than it's worth for what I do.

rScotty

As someone just posted green poisonous antifreeze they put in their tires. This is what I meant. I'm aware of the safe versions but that doesn't reach alot of folks out there whether lack of caring or whatever

 

[oosik]

I have 1550# of Rimguard in my rear tractor tires. Non-corrosive, non-toxic, heavy. Installed on my new tractor thirteen years ago - not a moments problem.

 

[newbury]

Why do you assume that? Does the presence of Sugar inhibit corrosion? Beet juice has some natural corrosion inhibitiors.
In theory, you could use a water soluble and biodegradable Machining cutting fluid concentrate. Maybe a gallon per tire mixed with water. I was considering that and then I realized I already owned a huge steel box I wasn't using.

IF you had read the thread you would realize that the sugar content idea had been thrown out. Beet juice being sold for tractor tire filling is a leftover AFTER they take the sugar out.

 

[dodge man]

It seems like sugar water would get expensive.

 

[Raul-02]

IF you had read the thread

You say that as if you expect people to read entire threads.

 

[copytmpmzl]

I have seen the ads for beet juice for tires. I have not been able to find pricing. In order to get pricing I must fill out a form with all my info and then I will get a quote. But after speaking to a few folks they spent over 300 bucks per 11.2 x 24 tires. I assume beet juice is used because of all the sugar dissolved into the beet juice. Looking at my Yanmar YM2310 manual it says the tires can be loaded with 235 pounds of a calcium chloride and water solution. Water will dissolve, by weight, pretty much the same amount of sucrose, which is table sugar. Since water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon if I was to make a saturated solution of sugar and water I would need to buy 235 pounds of sugar. Really though, because of the way sugar is packaged in bulk I would need to buy 250 pounds. A quick look online resulted in me finding sugar for 80 cents per pound delivered. So 200 bucks for 250 pounds of sugar. But sugar dissolves 2.4 times, as much, by weight, as calcium chloride into water. So I would need to use more water and less sugar to get to the 235 pound weight shown in the manual. It looks like I can just add sugar water to my innertubes instead of beet juice. Is there a good reason(s) to not use sugar water instead of beet juice? Will it eat up my tubes? I don't get it garage flooring Raleigh. Since the sugar water is way less corrosive than calcium chloride I wonder why I have never seen a sugar water solution being mentioned for adding weight. Anybody here have any info on this?
Thanks,
Eric

I've searched online for information about adding sugar to water instead of salt.
A chemical solution can be easily made weighing up to 13 to 15 lbs per gallon BUT it doesn't stay fluid anywhere near as cold as the Rimguard brand mix.

Is there a way to figure a solution to make one's own beet juice or sugar-based fluid fill and have it usable as FLUID as cold as say minus 20 or 30?

What sat you Redsquare scientists??

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Why not Bama jelly? Would it be too sweet?

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

It irks me when people make smart-ass derogatory replies. Having spent 40 years as a food processing engineer, I have seen a lot of stainless steel that was badly corroded. From worse to better; 304, 304L, 316, 316L, and 317L, are the common commercial grades available suitable for corrosive conditions. All of them can and do corrode under certain circumstances. Cost becomes a major factor, availability from suppliers becomes a factor. Sometimes you can only use what you can get. The more exotic alloys like Titanium, Hastelloy and Inconel may be appropriate in a lab, but are seldom a practical or cost effective solution for most industrial installations (there are exceptions). Improper sanitation procedures by under-trained sanitation crews is a common and major factor. Perhaps the inexperience of an engineer might be a cause, but usually the stupidity of the engineer is pretty dang low on the list of factors.

Plastic components are often a better corrosion resistant solution, but sometimes you can't use plastic because of strength or temperature considerations.

In regards to the OPs situation; I'd be reluctant to use sugar water. There are to many unknowns. Corrosion may be an issue, especially if the tires are tubeless. If the concentration is high, I can see the sugar coming out of solution at cold temperatures potentially causing issues. It may work but has unknown risks. If you don't want to take the time and expense to go somewhere for beet juice, then windshield washer fluid is the probably the most affordable option that you can do fairly easily by yourself.

engIneers at Hobas pipe told me that they can make a pipe to carry any liquid, at any temp. they had bought the US rights to pipe 40% Hydrochloric Acid, at 185F.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I've searched online for information about adding sugar to water instead of salt.
A chemical solution can be easily made weighing up to 13 to 15 lbs per gallon BUT it doesn't stay fluid anywhere near as cold as the Rimguard brand mix.

Is there a way to figure a solution to make one's own beet juice or sugar-based fluid fill and have it usable as FLUID as cold as say minus 20 or 30?

What sat you Redsquare scientists??

You would have to dissolve seven pound of sugar in a gallon of water to get fifteen pounds per gallon. that is a lot. Not sure you could do it at room temperature. Guess I could take a gallon of water, and a ten pound bag of sugar, and put it in a five gallon cooler with my sou vide heater run it over night, and then run it through a filter to remove the sugar crystals and see how much a gallon of the solution weighs. If you had saturated a liquid solution at 50-F, you would have crystals forming at anything lower than 50-F.

But, if the crystals were small, I would expect them to go back in solution as you run the tractor, and agitate the liquid in the tire. And, I don’t think the sugar crystals would ablade the interior of the tire.

But I have a kind of memory, that sugar solutions are corrosive.