Which Welder?

[otlski]

I am in the market for a new welder. I have MIG welded on and off for 25 years, always with wonky over-worn machines. The latest is a 1970's MIG my FIL gave me before he passed. The feed controls, amperage setting, and gun are all problematic and any welding I do now has about a 20% chance of being problem free. I will give this one away to a hardworking smart young man who works for me. He will get it running well enough.

I want to get a wire feed welder MIG/flux-core. Because of tank-certification dance I am inclined to stick with flux-core at this point in time. Portability is not a priority. Dual 120/240 V is not a priority; 240 V will be fine. I required 3/8" mild steel in a single pass but like the idea of 1/2" in a single pass. My usage is as a landowner, maintaining tractors, implements, trailers, and fabrication. I am hardly ever in a hurry when welding so throughput is not a concern. I am not likely to want to weld aluminum, convert to TIG, or add a spool gun.

I was considering the Lincoln Power MIG 210 - looked the the right price, right machine.
Lincoln Electric Powermig 21 Mp #K3963-1 - - Amazon.com

Until I read a review suggesting the Hobart IronMan 230 as an option.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_47864_47864

I would likely purchase either from a local vendor, not Amazon or other on-line vendors.

The Hobart capability of 1/2" single pass and the superior duty cycle sounded attractive. Reading reviews seems to be biased against Hobart products - generally unhappy with the build quality. However, the Hobart IronMan 230 gets generally good reviews except for the lack of infinite adjustability.

So the Lincoln can't do 1/2" in a single pass but obviously can do it in several passes (three?). Is there any compromise in weld strength by doing it in several passes. Keep in mind I am not a pro.

What overall thoughts do you guys have on these two choices? Which one would you get and why? What other welders are in the same class and price range that might be a better choice?

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

If you need portability, the small Lincoln.

If you don't, then the big Hobart gets my vote easily.
Hobart Welder - IronMan 23 Mig welding Tips - YouTube

I have a similar machine since early 2000's in the Miller millermatic 210. Full size machine, tap voltage. My brother has been trying to get it from me ever since

I am partial to big heavy machines in the shop. They have an excellent track record as my oldest one is from 1963.

I have Inverters too, they are nice, but I know one day they'll quit and be thrown away.

 

[newbury]

Just think long and hard - Will you ever need to run on 120V? 240V is best, but if you HAVE to run on 120 for some reason the Lincoln will work.

 

[pgk]

You mentioned that portability or being able to run 120v isn't a issue I would probably go with the Hobart. Don't get me wrong the 210 gets rave reviews from most everyone that has one, my brother just picked one up so could have on the job site and he loves it. Like Dave mentioned good ole transformer power supplies are tried and proven to go the long haul. Inverters are great for their features and portability but when they break they are usually more expensive to repair. I have a old Dynasty 300DX that I should probably knocking on wood, but everytime I power it up she keeps on chugging.. Knock, Knock..

Pete

 

[yomax4]

Also remember to look at the "Actual" output on the sticker or plate on the welder. You can't go by the number that is with the Model. The Miller 211 is actually 150 amp output for all practical purposes. No way it will do 1/2" plate single pass. Good Luck in your search.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Also remember to look at the "Actual" output on the sticker or plate on the welder. You can't go by the number that is with the Model. The Miller 211 is actually 150 amp output for all practical purposes. No way it will do 1/2" plate single pass. Good Luck in your search.

This. Exactly. The number games some of the companies play is on purpose and designed to confuse and bewilder the buyer. Duty cycle ratings are also rarely mentioned at maximum output...which most people don't even think about with a critical eye when comparing.

 

[cqaigy2]

This. Exactly. The number games some of the companies play is on purpose and designed to confuse and bewilder the buyer. Duty cycle ratings are also rarely mentioned at maximum output...which most people don't even think about with a critical eye when comparing.

Or think will matter until they have to wait for 20 minutes to put in another 5 minutes of welding. Go ahead, ask me how i know. :confused3:

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Also remember to look at the "Actual" output on the sticker or plate on the welder. You can't go by the number that is with the Model. The Miller 211 is actually 150 amp output for all practical purposes. No way it will do 1/2" plate single pass. Good Luck in your search.

That's actually why I like the full size machines like my old millermatic 210 - modern equivalent is the the 212.
160 A, 60% Duty Cycle
185 A, 40%
210 A, 30% Duty Cycle

That's much better than the 211 which is 40% at 150 amps.

Don't get me wrong, if I needed it to be portable and plug in, I'd get an inverter.
But I have my miller bobcat 225 and suitcase so portable is covered if I don't need to plug in.
I do have inverter tig/stick machines though - they are great machines

Or think will matter until they have to wait for 20 minutes to put in another 5 minutes of welding. Go ahead, ask me how i know. :confused3:

Been there...too impatient for that

 

[otlski]

Thank you all for your advice. The Hobart output rating is 175 amps at 25.5 volts at a 60% duty cycle. And, in not an apples to apples comparison, the Lincoln is rated for 200 amps at 24 volts at 25% duty cycle.

Question, over what allowed period of time are the duty cycle ratings? Can I run a bead for two contiguous minutes, let it rest for six minutes, and repeat? Can I run a bead for 15 minutes, let it rest for 45 minutes? Both are 25% duty cycles but are very different demands on the equipment.

 

[otlski]

Okay, so the Hobart data sheet has a chart that shows output at 240 amps at 30% duty cycle. That's apples to apples enough for me. I still have the question in the post above though.

 

[BukitCase]

Duty cycle is based on a 10 minute period - so a 30% duty cycle at a particular current would be 3 minutes weld time, 7 minutes "finger twiddling" time... Steve

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Along with the 10 min period knowledge, it's also helpful to know that many machines carry their rating at 104°F.
So at lower ambient temps, the duty cycle goes up.

From ESAB while referencing a 40% duty cycle at 285 amps:
"We evaluate duty cycle at a specific ambient temperature葉ypically 104 F. In cooler ambient temperatures, duty cycle increases. For example, when welding at 70 F, you could experience close to a 100-percent duty cycle耀pecifics will vary by machine and actual parameters, but welding in cooler temperatures definitely boosts duty cycle."

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Actually it's higher now if the product goes to Canada. The 104F/40C rating will likley begin to fall away since it's easier to certify all product to the same standard for both countries. I think the new standard is 117. Why, I don't know since the last time Canada saw 117F temps was probably when a T Rex roamed the earth. Many of our machines are now rated at the higher standard.

Keep in mind duty cycle is out of 10 minutes. Some people argue this should be a statement of infinity. But a product rated at 100% duty cycle at 10 minutes does not mean it is at 100% duty cycle at 15 minutes..though I've heard some argue that at the machines 100% duty cycle rating a product should run indefinitely.

 

[cqaigy2]

I'd be ok with 100% duty meaning you can weld all day at 117F, but i'd sure don't like being in that kind of heat while welding. My duty cycle is much shorter.

 

[yomax4]

I'd be ok with 100% duty meaning you can weld all day at 117F, but i'd sure don't like being in that kind of heat while welding. My duty cycle is much shorter.

Yeah, My duty cycle is 10-20% @ even 70 degrees.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Yeah, My duty cycle is 10-20% @ even 70 degrees.

That's not quite where mine is. But I think age is making mine go down. Either that or the mild heatstroke I had makes me more sensitive. If it's above 90, I am not welding anymore unless it has to be done and I have a fan blowing on me. It sneaks up on me. I"ll be fine one minute, and all of sudden I feel it working itself up into a frenzy in no time.

 

[WranglerX]

That's not quite where mine is. But I think age is making mine go down. Either that or the mild heatstroke I had makes me more sensitive. If it's above 90, I am not welding anymore unless it has to be done and I have a fan blowing on me. It sneaks up on me. I"ll be fine one minute, and all of sudden I feel it working itself up into a frenzy in no time.

Stay hydrated.... You get to intense on welding and forget to drink liquids, better liquids are one that contain electrolytes as sports drinks (Gatoraid)...

Live in foothills of calif and see 90-100° temp daily through summer....

Dale

 

[cqaigy2]

If you've had heatstroke you are more sensitive to heat and more susceptible to a repeat so be careful Mark.

 

[k0ua]

Yesterday I did a couple of hours of welding in the sun at 85 degrees, and I noticed the beads I was making while they started out good, after about an hour they started to really suck. It didn't help that a lot of the last ones were overhead, and the fact I got some splatter down just above my welding sleeves and burned thru my shirt and into my arm. That felt really nice, then I noticed I was so exhausted I was kinda wobbly on my feet. I had to sit for a while. I think the heat and old age is catching up with me. About 20 or 30 degrees cooler would have been nice. My "duty cycle" seems to be a lot less than the welding machine.

 

[otlski]

Once again, thanks to all for your opinions. In the past week I had three welding sessions with the old MIG which went flawlessly until today when the feed went erratic prompting me get moving on the replacement.

I have learned a few things from this thread and given it a lot of thought. I am highly likely to go the Lincoln 210 route or similar. Given the general recommendations not to weld over a 1/4" thick mild steel in a single pass; I know that I am not good enough to bypass that "rule". In the end the value of being able to weld the thicker cross-sections with the Hobart seemed a false advantage. The Lincoln with its better controls and more versatile setup guidance seems the best fit for me. I did in retrospect come to value the notion of portability and 115 VAC operation. I do most of my work in the woods in steep and very rocky ground; remote repairs have been needed.

So, given the choice of the inverter style, I have a few more questions. First, what would be the closest offering that Everlast has that is most similar to the Lincoln 210 MP? I find that Everlast has so many choices it is hard to understand which one might be a comparable capability machine. Second, a knowledgeable guy I work with is suggesting that I consider a much less expensive machine, citing that for $500-$800 less money than the Lincoln, and going "off brand", you can get the same current/duty capabilities. His recommendation is the AHP brand.
AHP AlphaMIG 25, the $95 25 AMP MIG! Complete In Depth Overview! - YouTube
Maybe not that exact unit but something similar. I argued that reliability might be compromised but he disagreed having owned one for a bunch of years.