Which type of welder would be best for my needs?

[Shield Arc]

Shieldarc, I just got my first inverter. Gonna play with her after work today! Yahoo! The first one showed up broke and I just got another yesterday. Only played with it a little bit and it got late on me,

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but from what I see already me likey!!!!!!

About 10-years ago a member here arranged for a bunch of us to tour Miller's testing facility in North West Chicago. We got to play with any machine Miller had on site:cool2:. I played with a Syncrowave for awhile. Walked out of that booth into a booth with a Dynasty. A Miller tech showed me how to run it, I fell in love! Just had to have one. Even got to run a Pipe Pro that day.

The first Miller arrived broken? Really? I would hope the issue was a shipping problem and not a manufacturer's defect at this price level.

Yep it happens to the best of them. My $5,500.00 Lincoln V350-Pro didn't work right when I first got it. 1-hour drive each way to the repair center for repairs!

 

[weldermike]

The first Miller arrived broken? Really? I would hope the issue was a shipping problem and not a manufacturer's defect at this price level.

I got a few short welds out of it playing with the settings and it threw itself into dc stick mode and would not come out. It wouldnt even work in dc stick. Miller took immediate excellent care of me tho and sent me a new unit asap. Ill post some weld pics and a report after I tune it to my liking, all I ever ran was transformer machines so it all new to me yet. But I like the way she feels already. I only took one pic so far,I gotta play with the balance I think.

 

[weldermike]

The Dynasty's were inverters and the Syncrowaves were conventional machines and now they have inverter Syncrowaves. What's up with that?

Had me baffled as well, but it was perfect timing for me. My smaller tranny syncro died on me again, 2nd time in 6mths and my next machine was gonna be a syncro 250. I just wasnt financially ready for that and my lws gave me a smoker of a deal on this guy. Saved me about 3g And the cool thing about this one is it only weighs 133lbs. One half of it is a storage compartment.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

It looks a little like the "new" stripped down versions of the dynasty's that were being offered, or the new 280...that never was. Wonder if this was the reinvent. It looks like they are sandwiching the synchros inbetween the diversion and the dynasty's now.

I'm interested to see how these take off.

 

[Shield Arc]

Wonder why Miller dropped the Dynasty 300? Then came out with the 350. Why not have the 200, 300, a 450, or 500, then the 700?:confused3:

 

[Arc weld]

I think maybe the Dynasty 300 was updated to the 350 and in the process they improved the stick welding performance on it? Since you are lacking in machines, I think you'll have to buy a 350 and see if there's any difference.

 

[sdef]

I have pretty much decided on the Everlast PA 160STH as the best bang for my buck. But while viewing the Everlast site, I noticed some machines have a requirement noted that in order for the welder to be used with a generator, the generator had to be rated as "clean power", the Power I-TIG 200, for example. This comment is not in the online manual for the 160STH, but I do not know if that means anything or not at this point.

For the next year or so, I will have to run any welder from my standard 8.5kw generator. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of whether or not the 160STH requires a "clean power" generator? My concern is both for welder performance and warranty support.

I sent Mark @ Everlast a PM about this several days ago and have not heard back. I assume he is unavailable, as he promptly replied on Labor Day to my initial questions concerning this welder's pricing.

 

[gwdixon]

The way it sounds, you don't think your generator has clean power. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a concern about whether the welder requires it.

You may consider concentrating on the generator instead of the welder because any welder would prefer clean power - as would your house, computer, electronic gear, etc. if you plan to use it in a power outage.

You should note your generator's brand, year of manufacture, serial #, and output (8.5KW). The information about "clean power" may be on the brand's website or may show up in a Google search.

Most Hondas are clean power but Mark may have to research your brand and model. It is asking a lot to know the characteristics of every make and model of generator offhand.

 

[k0ua]

Put an Oscilloscope on the generator (under load) and take a look for yourself.

 

[sdef]

"Clean power" as used by Everlast seems to be more of a certification, which is why I need their specifics, and it is not listed as a requirement on most of their products. My generator runs my household items just fine, well pump, AV system, etc. However, the UPSes for the PCs do not like it as the frequency is not as stable as line current, which is typical of most generators.

If a welder, any welder can't be powered by a "normal", run of the mill generator which has wider specifications than line current, I will simply forego a welder purchase until I get into my new home with 400 amp. service and shop. I certainly do not need to try to learn to weld on a machine that will be changing its output as the input current changes. Nor do I need to deal with any potential warranty issues due to power input.

 

[cowski]

i am using one of marks 140 welders on my generator ,with no problems .but i have not used it a lot. look up the variance on your generator and ask mark if he thought it would work.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

sdef,
My apologies. I DID write a reply, but apparently I got interrupted by a phone call or something, and absent mindedly closed it out before I hit send. I hope an open reply here will suffice.
Many inverters will require a clean power supply. Generator companies put a rating on their units. Usually it is defined as 10% or less total distortion in wave form harmonics. Inverters are basically a computer. If you wouldn't run your big screen lcd or your nice new laptop on it, don't run a welder on it. We are not alone in this requirement. I can think of several customers I have talked to that had a Lincoln inverter and tried to run it off their generator, and it would actually shut down when it was plugged in and turned on. If you had a scope to put the genset on, you could tell what sort of waveform is being put out. Honda gensets create a waveform that is typically cleaner than power company wave forms. What cowski said is true, because some older generators put out a good wave form, but then again, some didn't.

With the generator, the ouput on an inverter wouldn't change much, but likely would with a transformer.

 

[sdef]

Thanks Mark. I actually thought you may have had some time off if you were working the holiday or may have taken vacation; I was working, on-call. What you described happens to me often in the fast paced, labor short environment I work in. I had 69 hours last week and no I do not get paid extra for it.

I do know how to use an O-scope, as in a past life I used to design, prototype and repair circuit boards at the component level, but do not have access to one these days. The generator is a Devilbiss GEN-VE8000, which is a 8k/10k and not the 8.5k I thought it was. I do have the factory manuals and the specifications do not cover THD, which may be an indication in itself. They only specify 100% duty cycle and a power factor of 1.0, along with current and temperature ratings, engine RPM, nominal voltage and nominal frequency. I have looked on the Internet for additional information, but all I can find is parts information.

I am not going to purchase a higher quality generator just to run a welder for a relatively short period of time as I will have a standby power system at the new house. The same thing goes for a motor welder.

So in the end, it looks like I may have to put off a welder purchase until I get into the new house/shop.

Thanks to all who have replied. I have posted a few requests on TBN and usually receive valuable responses.

 

[gwdixon]

Before you give up all together maybe you can rent or borrow an oscilloscope. Might even check a pawn shop.

We don't want to lose you now! :thumbsup:

 

[k0ua]

O scopes on ebay for $100 or less. You dont need a fancy one.. old analog 20mhz scope would be fine. or even something less.

 

[deereman75]

I recently got two oscilloscopes for free. Both old school analog crt scopes.
One is a Tektronix 516 (2 channel, early 60s unit, about $40,000 new in today's money)
The other is a Sencore ps163, which also doubles as a vectorscope.

Deals are out there. See if there is a HAM radio club in your town, and if there is, go to their swap meet. You could easily get a good old one for under $50.
They are really fun units.
If you know any old guys who are into ham radio, ask them. All the radio operators I know have a basement full of stuff.
The guy I got my two scopes from still has 4 or 5 more old scopes around..... LOL

 

[k0ua]

There are actually young guys into Amateur Radio too

James K0UA

 

[deereman75]

Oh I know, I am one. I am currently working on my HAM ticket, and I am planning to have it by years end.
The reason I said old ham radio operators is they are the ones with huge piles of old radios and assorted test equipment, and often want to get rid of some of it.

 

[sdef]

I recently got two oscilloscopes for free. Both old school analog crt scopes.
One is a Tektronix 516 (2 channel, early 60s unit, about $40,000 new in today's money)
The other is a Sencore ps163, which also doubles as a vectorscope.

Deals are out there. See if there is a HAM radio club in your town, and if there is, go to their swap meet. You could easily get a good old one for under $50.
They are really fun units.
If you know any old guys who are into ham radio, ask them. All the radio operators I know have a basement full of stuff.
The guy I got my two scopes from still has 4 or 5 more old scopes around..... LOL

Oh, this brings back the day... I do believe that Tektronix is what I used, along with one of the first, small, truly portables. I seem to recall it only weighed 5 - 8 pounds or so and had a tiny screen- maybe 3" or so. The government defense departments can afford most anything.

 

[k0ua]

Oh I know, I am one. I am currently working on my HAM ticket, and I am planning to have it by years end.
The reason I said old ham radio operators is they are the ones with huge piles of old radios and assorted test equipment, and often want to get rid of some of it.

When you get your ticket I would be happy to work you. I like voice and digital modes, I am a pretty lousy CW operator, even though I passed the 20 wpm test a long time ago. I might be able to help you with cheap antenna ideas or operating tips.. contact me if you like

James K0UA