What tractor would you buy...

[tylermckee]

So I'm currently renting a 6175R, with ivt. My intent is to run a trenching attachment, the machine needs around 175hp and MUST have cvt/ivt. Trencher weighs about 6k pounds on the 3pt.
The Deere runs it just fine, and I can purchase this one from the rental company for 150k with 1800hrs, it's in great shape and runs the trencher perfectly fine.
Question is what's the reliability like? Is there a cheaper machine I can get? It won't be accumulating that many hours, the trencher is extremely efficient, I run the trencher for 1-3 hours per day to make production numbers. For perspective I put 110 hours on the trencher in about 150 working days to install 60,000lf of fiber optic lines.
Only things I care about are that it's ivt, 175hp, and good visibility to the back of the machine.

 

[cathy liebchen]

Better to just rent. Nothing cheap in that weight class

 

[tylermckee]

Better to just rent. Nothing cheap in that weight class

Well I'm bidding on a 2 year timeline project, so even if we purchase I'll likely just sell at the end. I'll probably put about 600 hours on it. Renting I spend roughly 50k per year

 

[rockinbbar]

You would probably come out better by buying, doing the project then selling.

Might be some good tax benefits as well. Probably re-coop the money paid for the tractor, and might even make more than you paid when you sell, if you take care of it.

 

[aesanders]

The Deere will hold its value better than any other machine. JMHO

 

[rockinbbar]

The Deere will hold its value better than any other machine. JMHO

They hold value well, but I'm not certain they are any better than some other brands of large utility or farming tractors.

I recently added a new tractor and shopped JD hard. Took a very long, comprehensive look at an apples to apples tractor, and found out it was $27k more than the very comparable New Holland. That may not be much for a legacy operation who plans on leaving everything to upcoming generations, but for my purposes of keeping a tractor 10 years or so, it was more than I was willing to spend.

I also got $47k for a 100hp Case that was 10 years old and had several thousand hours. I paid $50k for the Case, brand new.. $3k for 10 years service wasn't bad.

 

[ovrszd]

They hold value well, but I'm not certain they are any better than some other brands of large utility or farming tractors.

I recently added a new tractor and shopped JD hard. Took a very long, comprehensive look at an apples to apples tractor, and found out it was $27k more than the very comparable New Holland. That may not be much for a legacy operation who plans on leaving everything to upcoming generations, but for my purposes of keeping a tractor 10 years or so, it was more than I was willing to spend.

I also got $47k for a 100hp Case that was 10 years old and had several thousand hours. I paid $50k for the Case, brand new.. $3k for 10 years service wasn't bad.

I agree JD costs more upfront than some brands. But I think you get it back when you sell or trade.

I think the only way an owner can claim a cost per year as yours in the last paragraph you have to NOT replace the item. If you didn't replace the Case, you did okay. If you replaced it you lost that gain in the inflated price of the new tractor. And that has been a steep gain over the last 2-3d years.

 

[rockinbbar]

I agree JD costs more upfront than some brands. But I think you get it back when you sell or trade.

I think the only way an owner can claim a cost per year as yours in the last paragraph you have to NOT replace the item. If you didn't replace the Case, you did okay. If you replaced it you lost that gain in the inflated price of the new tractor. And that has been a steep gain over the last 2-3d years.

I dunno.

I did okay with the Case, and plan to sell the New Holland once I get 10 or 12 years down the road. Knowing how I maintain and take care of equipment, I'll probably do okay with that New Holland too.

The reason I got 2 new tractors this fall was to continue my ag services business for another 10 years with as little downtime, repairs and parts issues as I can get by with.

Time in the shop on repairs, waiting for parts, etc. means I'm not making money with my equipment. Not that I won't have breakdowns, but at least I'm not starting with 10 year old equipment with lots of hours... It may be more reliable in the long run to operate newer equipment vs trying to keep old equipment running and making me money.

 

[aesanders]

They hold value well, but I'm not certain they are any better than some other brands of large utility or farming tractors.

I recently added a new tractor and shopped JD hard. Took a very long, comprehensive look at an apples to apples tractor, and found out it was $27k more than the very comparable New Holland. That may not be much for a legacy operation who plans on leaving everything to upcoming generations, but for my purposes of keeping a tractor 10 years or so, it was more than I was willing to spend.

I also got $47k for a 100hp Case that was 10 years old and had several thousand hours. I paid $50k for the Case, brand new.. $3k for 10 years service wasn't bad.

I was referring to the OP, who said he plans on only having the machine for 2 years. He already has found a John Deere that works. Safest bet IMHO, and would have the easiest time to sell after 2 years.

 

[ovrszd]

I dunno.

I did okay with the Case, and plan to sell the New Holland once I get 10 or 12 years down the road. Knowing how I maintain and take care of equipment, I'll probably do okay with that New Holland too.

The reason I got 2 new tractors this fall was to continue my ag services business for another 10 years with as little downtime, repairs and parts issues as I can get by with.

Time in the shop on repairs, waiting for parts, etc. means I'm not making money with my equipment. Not that I won't have breakdowns, but at least I'm not starting with 10 year old equipment with lots of hours... It may be more reliable in the long run to operate newer equipment vs trying to keep old equipment running and making me money.

Please don't misunderstand my position. I am not saying you didn't do okay. I'm just saying the inflated purchase price of the new tractors ate a sizeable portion of the inflated price you received for your old tractor.

Also in a paper trade deal I pay very little attention to the value they assign to my trade-in. I only pay attention to the difference paid. If I'm buying a similar machine as the one I traded in this difference paid is what it cost me to own that machine.

I tend to calculate this based on dollars per tach hour. If I put 1000 tach hrs on the trade-in machine and I pay $40K difference, my costs are $40 p/tach hour.

Again, inflation clouds the air in trades. The profit margin for the work performed by the old machine has to have inflated at a similar pace as all these dollar amounts or I have lost ground.

 

[rockinbbar]

Please don't misunderstand my position. I am not saying you didn't do okay. I'm just saying the inflated purchase price of the new tractors ate a sizeable portion of the inflated price you received for your old tractor.

Also in a paper trade deal I pay very little attention to the value they assign to my trade-in. I only pay attention to the difference paid. If I'm buying a similar machine as the one I traded in this difference paid is what it cost me to own that machine.

I tend to calculate this based on dollars per tach hour. If I put 1000 tach hrs on the trade-in machine and I pay $40K difference, my costs are $40 p/tach hour.

Again, inflation clouds the air in trades. The profit margin for the work performed by the old machine has to have inflated at a similar pace as all these dollar amounts or I have lost ground.

I hear you, and agree in most cases.

But I deal with my tractor dealer on "ACV" (actual cash value) when talking buying or anything involving a trade.

I get the lowest cash price I can out of him. That includes whatever incentives the manufacturer may have.

Then I will decide to opt the trade in. That way the trade value is what they are actually giving me for it. Lots of folks get taken in by over allowance when a trade is involved, but if you have a good dealer who understands you want real numbers, and no slight of hand BS where the figures are concerned, you can weigh what they are actually giving you for trade.

As far as the per tach hour, by business can be very seasonal, and when my clients call and ask if I can get on their project, if I have broken equipment in the shop for repairs, or waiting for parts, I don't make that money, and even risk losing the client because I can't get the work done. I just can't make money on a tractor that in the shop. That can cut the heart out of my busy season.

everyone has to consider their own needs and cost comparisons.

 

[ovrszd]

I hear you, and agree in most cases.

But I deal with my tractor dealer on "ACV" (actual cash value) when talking buying or anything involving a trade.

I get the lowest cash price I can out of him. That includes whatever incentives the manufacturer may have.

Then I will decide to opt the trade in. That way the trade value is what they are actually giving me for it. Lots of folks get taken in by over allowance when a trade is involved, but if you have a good dealer who understands you want real numbers, and no slight of hand BS where the figures are concerned, you can weigh what they are actually giving you for trade.

As far as the per tach hour, by business can be very seasonal, and when my clients call and ask if I can get on their project, if I have broken equipment in the shop for repairs, or waiting for parts, I don't make that money, and even risk losing the client because I can't get the work done. I just can't make money on a tractor that in the shop. That can cut the heart out of my busy season.

everyone has to consider their own needs and cost comparisons.

Good stuff.

In the end, difference paid is the only number that's concrete.

4 years ago my Township traded for a new grader. I was running the old one on a sizeable road project smoothing behind a large scraper. The new machine showed up and I got out of the old one and in the new one to continue work. Within 90 minutes it was broke down. Sure wished I had my old one back at that moment.

 

[dodge man]

I’m just thinking out loud here but could you get a construction type trencher for the same money and be better off?

 

[oldnslo]

I would go with a known machine that you know works and have some history of use before looking for an unknown tractor with unknown history that may work just fine or may not be as comfortable, have same view capabilities, etc.

Or like dodgeman suggests, would a dedicated trencher be a better choice?

 

[Williy]

Some information for the 6175R some problems and how to fix:

Google Search

I don't put information up because I don't like JD I put the information up
so you will have a knowledge of problems others are having with this unit'
and some put up information on how to fix the problems so you have a heads
up en case you have these problems

willy

 

[tylermckee]

I’m just thinking out loud here but could you get a construction type trencher for the same money and be better off?

Not likely, a previous contractor tried several other types of dedicated trenchers without much success. This attachment was 100k on its own, it functions a little different than the dedicated machines.

 

[kneedeep]

Might be a little high for a rental tractor, here are some to compare price

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