What is with impliment makers?

[TheMan419]

I am looking at a couple of tillers. I cannot find anything acceptable used at a price that makes sense to not buy new.

So looking at new ones. Most of them on line have a copy of the manual. I look at those to determine what else I need to get (i.e. one of them needs a 1 1/4 wrench/socket which I don't have).

What gets me is they all specify to "fill gear box with xxx oil" (xxx being the type of oil they want). NONE of them tell me the QUANTITY that I need. Just fill it up to a certain point. No guidance is that a quart, 4 gallons.... what is it?

Arrgh.

Sorry. Rant over.

 

[Texasmark]

Takes a gallon for the 72" TSC tiller I bought a couple of months ago for $2k. Does the PTO and the tiller drive boxes. Did a lot of shopping and the TSC is as good as most unless you move up into industrial units and obviously they are built for industrial usage and are more robust with increased cost. Each mfgr. I viewed, did the bracing a little different but all had chain drive and 6 tynes per hub for a total of 54 HD tynes.

I don't see the need for an industrial and I have been grinding up rock hard black clay with no sign of anything being over worked. I would recommend the gear drive and that is all I have seen for sale around here. Just like back in the early days of hand operated tillers, gear drives is all you had. Then somebody decided to make them cheaper and tried chains....tried the same thing with 3 pts. Guess what.....

Recommended oil is 80W-90 but after having gear problems with light oil on a tractor, I use 85w-140 in all my farm gear boxes that call for gear oil. Course if I lived in Canada I might opt for the former for easier starts and then again I might not. We're not talking about an internal combustion engine oiling requirements here, we're talking about a HD gear box.

On filling consult the owner's manual for"fill and" "full" ports. Again, this is a gearbox which are not designed to be filled to the top. On most, "full" is like one third or forth the height of the chamber and there is usually a little pipe plug at the full level for setting it.

 

[TheMan419]

Actually I am looking at the TSC as well. I will end up going with 60". I get HOW I fill with oil. Same process as my rotary mower. Just would be nice for them to tell me I need a gallon so I know how much to buy!

I would agree quality wise since I am not tilling for a living the TSC one will suffice. I do not need to spend double on one that is built more solidly.

I was hopeful to find a used industrial one that was price more along the lines of the TSC or KK new one... but alas around here they still want way more than the new TSC one for used industrial.

 

[fried1765]

Actually I am looking at the TSC as well. I will end up going with 60". I get HOW I fill with oil. Same process as my rotary mower. Just would be nice for them to tell me I need a gallon so I know how much to buy!

I would agree quality wise since I am not tilling for a living the TSC one will suffice. I do not need to spend double on one that is built more solidly.

I was hopeful to find a used industrial one that was price more along the lines of the TSC or KK new one... but alas around here they still want way more than the new TSC one for used industrial.

Take a look at the website for Blain's Farm & Fleet.
Their prices are always great (sales even better), and their shipping is usually cheap.
They usually ship from their warehouse in Janesville Wi.
I have a 60" KK tiller from them, and they beat the pants off every other sellers price!
Their price, right now, on a 60" KK tiller, is $1555 plus shipping, but they do have sales also.
No tax either, on an interstate sale.
I have 4 KK implements, 3 of which came from Blain's (ship dist. 1200 miles).
I live very near a TSC store.
My KK tiller is DEFINITELY better built than the TSC tiller!

Another option is Agri-Supply in North Carolina.
They sell a 60" "tillovator" (has excellent reviews) for $1320 plus shipping (they NEVER do have sales). No tax!

 

[fried1765]

I am looking at a couple of tillers. I cannot find anything acceptable used at a price that makes sense to not buy new.

So looking at new ones. Most of them on line have a copy of the manual. I look at those to determine what else I need to get (i.e. one of them needs a 1 1/4 wrench/socket which I don't have).

What gets me is they all specify to "fill gear box with xxx oil" (xxx being the type of oil they want). NONE of them tell me the QUANTITY that I need. Just fill it up to a certain point. No guidance is that a quart, 4 gallons.... what is it?

Arrgh.

Sorry. Rant over.

Buy a 2 gal. jug of whatever oil meets specs.
You will get an owners manual with the tiller.
Follow the manual instructions.
Keep it simple!

 

[Texasmark]

.My KK tiller is DEFINITELY better built than the TSC tiller!

Look a little closer. Not WAY better, just different ways to support what needs to be supported if you are talking about the yellow one. Same gear drive and 6 tynes per hub. If you are talking about the red one then yes, like it's setup for a quick hitch and the 3 pt hookup is sturdier, but check the price. It's commercial/Industrial. I looked at KK too and have half a dozen of their products over the years.

 

[fried1765]

Look a little closer. Not WAY better, just different ways to support what needs to be supported if you are talking about the yellow one. Same gear drive and 6 tynes per hub. If you are talking about the red one then yes, like it's setup for a quick hitch and the 3 pt hookup is sturdier, but check the price. It's commercial/Industrial. I looked at KK too and have half a dozen of their products over the years.

Who said "WAY better"?
Not me!
I live 6 miles from a TSC store, and see their tillers FREQUENTLY.

 

[DieselBound]

I would reckon that the manuals should state how much total oil capacity, but how much you MAY need to add could vary due to several factors (not filled for delivery; partially filled; randomly filled- assembly line issue; leaks; changing manufacturing processes etc.). Usually it should be "ensure proper fill level" and refer to how to check/verify.

I'd like to see manufacturers using sight glasses of some sort. But, I dunno, maybe it's really not much of an issue, just like with rotary cutters (where one really only needs to check at the start of a season).

I find that I can look at various brands of something until I'm blue in the face and the real deciding factor, after I've ascertained that I'm on-track with my selections meeting my basic list of requirements, is in hearing what others find from operating the equipment. Most of the time it's nuances, but sometimes there are things that I find that I wouldn't want to live with and equipment that has those negative characteristics are weeded out.

I've got perhaps a bigger challenge in regards to selecting a rototiller. I am not sure whether to shoot for one for my NX, in which case I'd be looking at something in the higher range (industrial), or for my B7800 (smaller scale, so not as heavy duty). On the NX front I'm leaning toward something from EA, as I have had really good luck with EA and EA tends to carry good stuff and to provide excellent support.

 

[TheMan419]

I would reckon that the manuals should state how much total oil capacity, but how much you MAY need to add could vary due to several factors (not filled for delivery; partially filled; randomly filled- assembly line issue; leaks; changing manufacturing processes etc.). Usually it should be "ensure proper fill level" and refer to how to check/verify.

I'd like to see manufacturers using sight glasses of some sort. But, I dunno, maybe it's really not much of an issue, just like with rotary cutters (where one really only needs to check at the start of a season).

I find that I can look at various brands of something until I'm blue in the face and the real deciding factor, after I've ascertained that I'm on-track with my selections meeting my basic list of requirements, is in hearing what others find from operating the equipment. Most of the time it's nuances, but sometimes there are things that I find that I wouldn't want to live with and equipment that has those negative characteristics are weeded out.

I've got perhaps a bigger challenge in regards to selecting a rototiller. I am not sure whether to shoot for one for my NX, in which case I'd be looking at something in the higher range (industrial), or for my B7800 (smaller scale, so not as heavy duty). On the NX front I'm leaning toward something from EA, as I have had really good luck with EA and EA tends to carry good stuff and to provide excellent support.

But that is my point. The manufacturer knows the capacity of the gear box they created. When you change the oil on your car the manual specifies 5 quarts of oil (or whatever). Now that is not exactly 5. You need to check and it might be 4.75 or 5.2 quarts. But at least you know the approximate quantity to buy at the oil store.

All the manuals I have looked at state to remove the plug and just pour in oil until it is up to the fill level indicator plug. No problem I can do that. Just give me an idea if that should be a gallon of oil, 1 quart, what? That way (a) I know how much to buy and (b) if my fill is +/- >10% off I need to look to see if there is a problem. Is there a leak somewhere or something?

If you have no idea how much oil should be going in you have no way to determine if there is an issue.

Of course if you buy used your millage may vary because you have no idea what the prior owner did or did not do.

 

[DieselBound]

Well, if the manuals don't have it and it's an issue then look elsewhere. Or, one can look to get into the engineering or tech-writing departments of one of the troubling manufacturers and whip them into shape!:laughing:

Seriously, yes, I get it that this is a vent, but sometimes one has to move on. Contact EA or someone like them and ask them- they carry a few different brands and know each really well.

I've gotten hung up on this kind of thing MANY times, I totally understand. But, it's the world we live in and I've got work to do, work which eventually tells me to just buck up and figure it out.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would buy a few quarts of 85-140 gear oil and move on. This isn't worth considering or getting frustrated about. Save that for tilling up your phone line or backing the wife's car over the stump you should have removed.:laughing:

 

[TheMan419]

No I was just ranting. I have selected the tiller that I want and the lack of information regarding oil is not going to change that. It is just silly that they don't provide the information.

 

[TMGT]

Have you tried the "old school" method and called the manufacturer to ask?
Most companies use gearboxes manufactured by another company that may change over time, or the manual covers multiple models.
Sometimes it's better to not have the info listed rather then have inaccurate info on things like this.

 

[mcfarmall]

As TMGT stated, NOT listing the capacity of the gearbox in the manual saves money and warranty claims for the manufacturer. They can use anybody's gearbox (whomever is cheaper at the time) on their equipment and simply state in the manual "fill gearbox with SAE 90 gear oil." The owner fills the gearbox with enough oil to the proper level and that's it. The manufacturer doesn't have to re-print the manual just because they changed gearbox suppliers. Not a silly move on the manufactures part, it's a smart move that saves $$ and paper and wages spent on technical writers salaries.

 

[M5farms]

Is the gear box bigger than a gallon jug ? is it bigger than a 2.5gal jug ? I have not put oil in anything new in quite some time so I don't know if gear boxes have changed but you fill it till it runs out the side hole , I assume the manufacture figures the buyers should know that.

 

[TheMan419]

Is the gear box bigger than a gallon jug ? is it bigger than a 2.5gal jug ? I have not put oil in anything new in quite some time so I don't know if gear boxes have changed but you fill it till it runs out the side hole , I assume the manufacture figures the buyers should know that.

It's not a question of knowing to fill the dang thing to the side hole. (A) the manual is clear on that and (2) it ain't my first implement. The issue is knowing how much oil to buy.

I get the fact that they would then have to change the manual if they changed gear boxes. I guess it is just another instance of the world thinking a half *** job is good enough.

 

[M5farms]

It's not a question of knowing to fill the dang thing to the side hole. (A) the manual is clear on that and (2) it ain't my first implement. The issue is knowing how much oil to buy.

I get the fact that they would then have to change the manual if they changed gear boxes. I guess it is just another instance of the world thinking a half *** job is good enough.

Maybe 99% of the population can figure out how much oil is needed without having to be told.

 

[jenkinsph]

It's not a question of knowing to fill the dang thing to the side hole. (A) the manual is clear on that and (2) it ain't my first implement. The issue is knowing how much oil to buy.

I get the fact that they would then have to change the manual if they changed gear boxes. I guess it is just another instance of the world thinking a half *** job is good enough.

So lets say the manufacturer says to add 17.8 oz. of hypoid 90 to the gear box instead of leaving you clueless. You buy a quart of this gear oil and want to fill the gear box. Are you going to screw up a measuring cup to get this exact measurement? I'm not, I will fill to the mark and move on. Combine this with not being able to buy the 17.8 oz. container and will say you are overthinking this. If you are going to have equipment with gear boxes I recommend you keep a couple of extra bottles of oil in stock.

 

[Spindifferent]

I agree that it is frustrating to not be able to find this important info from some manufacturers. It may well be a reflection of the quality of the manufacturer...

That said, I have a Woods TCR68 tiller and the Operators Manual clearly notes both the Gearbox Oil Capacity and the Chain Case Oil Capacity along with the specific type of oils to be used in each. The specs are: 1.2 QT SAE 80W-90 and .78 QT SAE #00 for gearbox/chain case respectively.

You may have to actually call the manufacturer to request the info. This is poor customer service in my mind.

 

[TMGT]

So having to contact a company about technical data is poor customer service and means it's a lower quality product?
I'm sorry I can't seem to follow the logic.