Well Trooubleshooting and Fix

Roadworthy · Sep 10, 2020

I've had water issues of late - not lack of water, inability to get it to the surface. I put in a new pump controller for my old pump and the pump failed. I had a new pump installed using my month old controller. All was good until it wasn't. After two weeks I had no water. Motor drew current but wouldn't pump. Controller checked out good per procedure inside cover. I thought locked rotor on pump motor. Well guy said current wasn't high enough for locked rotor and was puzzled. He checked with another well guy then replaced my month old controller (Franklin) with a new controller (Flowise). Problem solved. For those interested, I have a submerged type pump 440 feet below the ground. It's a five horsepower single phase 240 volt unit by Grundfos. My thought on the post is to illustrate that just because something is new (like my month old controller) it may not be good and the troubleshooting instructions may not be adequate to show a unit is good. My Franklin controller is shipping back to Franklin for evaluation. I'm hoping for some kind of refund as I'm currently using the Flowise controller and I sure don't need two!! I would not have wanted to be without water while my controller went back for warranty evaluation, either. I could have opted for the newer VFD type pump which are potentially more efficient but price a controller for one of them!! The controller is usually what fails and they are five to ten times the cost of a conventional unit.

Valveman · Sep 11, 2020

Roadworthy said:
I've had water issues of late - not lack of water, inability to get it to the surface. I put in a new pump controller for my old pump and the pump failed. I had a new pump installed using my month old controller. All was good until it wasn't. After two weeks I had no water. Motor drew current but wouldn't pump. Controller checked out good per procedure inside cover. I thought locked rotor on pump motor. Well guy said current wasn't high enough for locked rotor and was puzzled. He checked with another well guy then replaced my month old controller (Franklin) with a new controller (Flowise). Problem solved. For those interested, I have a submerged type pump 440 feet below the ground. It's a five horsepower single phase 240 volt unit by Grundfos. My thought on the post is to illustrate that just because something is new (like my month old controller) it may not be good and the troubleshooting instructions may not be adequate to show a unit is good. My Franklin controller is shipping back to Franklin for evaluation. I'm hoping for some kind of refund as I'm currently using the Flowise controller and I sure don't need two!! I would not have wanted to be without water while my controller went back for warranty evaluation, either. I could have opted for the newer VFD type pump which are potentially more efficient but price a controller for one of them!! The controller is usually what fails and they are five to ten times the cost of a conventional unit.

Glad you didn't fall for the VFD hype. VFD's are not more efficient. That is a lie they tell you to trick you into purchasing one of those Tar Babies. Like you said the controller, especially a VFD controller, is what usually goes out often. Most VFD's need a three phase motor to work with, which lets them sell you on a less expensive motor and smaller wire. However, this locks you into fixing the expensive VFD controller several times, as you you have to change back to a single phase motor and larger wire to rid yourself of the VFD. Usually after replacing about the third expensive VFD controller in a few short years, people figure out it is worth biting the bullet and switching back to larger wire and a single phase motor so they have something dependable and long lasting.

The standard Franklin controller and Flowise are identical, and they are repairable. You didn't need a complete new control box, probably just a start capacitor and relay. If your pump is cycling on and off a lot, the controller may have gone out for that reason and not have just been bad. Grundfos is a good pump and the standard single phase should last 30 years. However, you need a huge pressure tank or a Cycle Stop Valve to keep the pump from cycling on/off too much, which is what shortens the life of all pumps.
How a Pressure Tank Works and why you need a Cycle Stop Valve on Vimeo

Roadworthy · Sep 11, 2020

This whole game started when I noticed my irrigation cycling, indicating a failure of my Cycle Stop which I subsequently replaced. I know - replacing the diaphragm is usually all that's necessary but working in a hole I managed to cross thread the spring cage. Rather than fool with it I just bought a new one. You kind of nailed the reason I didn't go with a VFD pump - I've worked a lot of years as an electrician and am aware of some of the VFD pitfalls. I've also repaired my controller more than once. This go round I just got frustrated and bought a new one after 25 or so years of service. That was my mistake. Thanks for the feedback, though. My hindsight is fantastic!! By the way, I had two sixty or eighty gallon pressure tanks, too. It appears I've lost the bladder in one. I guess it's time to replace it after ten years. I just thought it would last longer.

Tractor Seabee · Sep 11, 2020

Roadworthy said:
This whole game started when I noticed my irrigation cycling, indicating a failure of my Cycle Stop which I subsequently replaced. I know - replacing the diaphragm is usually all that's necessary but working in a hole I managed to cross thread the spring cage. Rather than fool with it I just bought a new one. You kind of nailed the reason I didn't go with a VFD pump - I've worked a lot of years as an electrician and am aware of some of the VFD pitfalls. I've also repaired my controller more than once. This go round I just got frustrated and bought a new one after 25 or so years of service. That was my mistake. Thanks for the feedback, though. My hindsight is fantastic!! By the way, I had two sixty or eighty gallon pressure tanks, too. It appears I've lost the bladder in one. I guess it's time to replace it after ten years. I just thought it would last longer.

If the motor runs it is not the controller. Running motor = water out of the pump unless there is a problem with the mechanical parts of the pump. The amp draw should be a clue, If it is close to the FLAs it indicates a load (pumping water) if way below that the motor shaft has become uncoupled from pump internally. Solution; pull and replace the pump, they are not field repairable.

Ron

Roadworthy · Sep 12, 2020

I guess I didn't use enough words. The motor was drawing current through the windings but not spinning therefore no water coming up. The amp draw was under thirty but locked rotor should have been fifty. Start capacitor was in the circuit but run capacitor did not seem to be even with both overloads closed. It was a defective pump controller. On examination the motor connection terminal strip was burned. It appears to have been a factory defect. The seller will give me credit for having returned it.