Well Hardware

[Dennisfly]

I am having a new house built and the contractor installed a canister type filter (about 3/4 gallon) downstream from the diaphragm pressure tank. I was thinking that it should be installed upstream so that the pressure tank doesn't fill up with sediment. Any thoughts on this? Its a brand new well and not yet pumping so I don't know the quality of the water.

Also, if one pressure tanks is good are two better? I was thinking about installing a second one in series to save the well pump from cycling so often. Is my thinking right here or am I all wet (no pun intended)?

 

[ronjhall]

My system is set up the same way.
If the filter becomes blocked (someone forgot to replace filter element) Pump would be cycling off and on with just a small use of water. Since the outlet for the tank is at the bottom of tank it should stay clean.
You may want to consider a pair of 20" X 4" filters if only a single filter is being put in line.

 

[RICHARDG]

I believe for stated reasons,,all filters go between tank and outlet,,,,yeah you can put in more pressure tanks,,,but the best would be just get a bigger one,[if it will fit,,you can find out most of this online,,under water wells or diaphram water pressure tanks,or something like that,,I've looked it up before,,yeah,,get it right if you are just installing stuff,,less you use pump,the longer it will last,,although mine was in ground 12 years ago when we bought this place and it still works,[knock on my head],,and on top of that,,air tanks bladder had a hole in it for a year before I figured it out,,so it was cycleing constantly for a year or more.. thingy

 

[Dennisfly]

Thanks! I never thought about what would happen if the filter clogged. I'll go online to look at well hardware for multiple tank info.

 

[SCB]

I have to agree with your assessment of the filter placement. I am currently replacing my system, and will put the filter before the pressure tank. Ron has a good point about the pump cycling if the filter is clogged, so I will have to be dilligent in my maintenance. However, I can attest to having a pressure tank full of sediment, and my outlet is on the bottom of the tank. So the sediment will get there. One thing to consider is that if you put the filter inline before the tank, make sure that it is after the pressure cut-off switch. If you don't and the filter is clogged, the pump will continue to run until it hits it's overload cut-off. Yes you can put two tanks in also, but I would run them parallel instead of in series. But if you have room for a larger tank, that works just as well with less plumbing to do.

 

[kensfarm]

I would def. check the filter & well pump specs.. gpm limits. If your 1/2 hp well pump kicks out 25 gpm.. and the filter can only do 10 gpm.. it seems like you would over work your well pump.

When I had my well pump replaced.. the well guy installed a bigger tank in series w/ my original.. he said it would cut down on the cycling of the pump.

 

[SCB]

Kensfarm,
I'm a little confused about the pressure tanks being in series. The ones I have seen have only one fitting on the tank. Do your tanks have more than one fitting on them? If not, It seems that the plumbing would have to be in parrallel. Maybe I'm missing something? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Dennisfly]

I take series to mean that the water would flow from one tank into the other one and then to the house. Parallel would mean there would be a "Y" and the water could flow simultaneously through both pressure tanks, though I think it would take the path of least resistance. The series sounds more logical to me. The plumbing would be up to you or the installer. I believe all of the tanks only have one inlet and one outlet.

I went to Sears where they sell water softeners and filters and they said the filter should be after the pressure tank. I also read the instructions on one of their filters and it said to install it after the pressure tank. No one offered an explanation as to why this should be done.

 

[SPIKER]

actually you CAN'T install them "IN-SERIES" as they do not go THROUGH the tank only into one tank so they will be in the same LINE but basically in PARALLEL and or a T or Y config. it is better if you have a BIGGER HOUSE to use 2 tanks one at each end of the house if water runs back and forth. that way you have more even pressure from both ends of the lines...

anyhow it SHOULD be tank then filter as other mentioned... it can build up some sediment but usually you should flush the system every so often (monthly, bi-monthly or 90days) by OPENING an outlet which SHOULD BE tied in at the pump/tank/pressure switch valve body. this will DUMP the water in the tank and flush out any thing that gets in there.

the 2nd tank down stream of the filter would only need a single 1/2" or so line into it the primary tank will have the pressure switch, pump outlet line, primary tank inlet fitting, and primary drain valve/hose shut off valve.

Mark M

 

[kensfarm]

"I take series to mean that the water would flow from one tank into the other one and then to the house"

Yes.. this is how they set it up.. the new tank's pressure valve controls the well pump.

 

[SCB]

I'm still confused how you can have the water go in series from one tank to the other with only one fitting on each tank.
Spiker, I understand why they want the filter downstream from the tank. It allows sediment to settle to the bottom of the tank and gives longer filter life. I would rather backflush the filter than drain the pressure tanks monthly. Have you heard of any downfalls to having the filter upstream of the tanks, provided that the pressure switch is upstream of the filter?

 

[dbelisle]

As sediment collects in the filter it will make the pump work harder or blow a seal, thus it could shorten the life of the pump if the filter is before the tank. And if you put it there and after the pressure switch and before the tank you could end up short cycling the pump. So yes, you can put it there and it will work , but no good Plumber is going to do it or would a manufacture stand behind there product .

The only thing I will install between the pump and a pressure tank is a check valve.

When you come out of a tank you use a tank tee. That fitting has two outlets that allow you to use 1 inch or 3/4 inch fittings, that is how you would series two tanks together.

What is hardest on a motor is the starting cycle , so a bigger tank or two tanks will cut down on the cycles and that will help extend the life of the pump.

Dave in NH
Belisle Plumbing and Heating

 

[Egon]

The only thing I will install between the pump and a pressure tank is a check valve.

What is the reasoning behind this??

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Junkman]

The check valve holds the water from returning to the well and relieves the starting pressure on the pump. I started a discussion about this subject last year. I finally resolved my problem of sand in the water heater by installing a sediment filter after the tank before it goes into any plumbing. This is an expensive filter, but requires very little maintenance. Just empty the canister monthly by using the valve at the bottom of the canister and draining water into a milk jug. The filter costs about $300. If you want to put a secondary filter on the line, then be prepared to do filter changes. The larger the filter, the better they work. I suggest that you have a water sample tested first and then decide what type of water treatment you need before doing anything. Just remember that the sediment that comes from the well will clog any appliance that you have in the house, such as the water heater, water softener, etc. That is the reason to have the sediment filter right after the tank. If you have an existing home and don't know if there is a sediment problem, look in the toilet tanks. If you find sand in the bottom of the toilet tank, they you have a problem. I didn't think about this until my water heater started to bang every time the burner came on. The heater manufacturer clued me into what was the cause. The only bad part is that once it is in the tank, there is no way to remove it. I was draining water from the water heater tank on a regular basis, but the drain doesn't come off the bottom, but a couple of inches above the bottom. That is why the sediment never came out.

Here is the THREAD......

Here is the filter that I used.... F76 Sediment Filter.......

More information on filter.....

 

[dbelisle]

You install a check valve on the inlet side of the expansion tank to maintain the pressure on the system. That way your not relying only on the check valve down in the well, on the pump, to maintain your system pressure.

Most check or foot valves used in domestic water systems have a soft seated check with a spring to hold them closed. They can and due fail, or debris can get caught under the check. If you have a second check at the tank and one of the checks fails, your system will still work fine.

Also if you have only one check or foot valve and it fails, you could create a backflow situation that could drain the entire house , pressure tank and maybe even the hot water heater ,toilet tanks or any other cross connection back into the well.

People will buy the fluid master 200 instead of the 400 to replace a toilet fill valve to save a buck.

((( The 400 has a check valve built in the 200 doesn't. )))

I am not interest in drinking mister tidy bowl. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

You will find even on new homes, on a Municipal water system, that there is a double check valve just before the water meter where the water enters the house to prevent backflows.

If it is a shallow well with a foot valve for the check , you put a second check on the inlet of the pump and not on the tank. Some jet pumps even come with the check build right into them.
I will also install a tee with a plug before the check to make it easyer to prime the jet pump system.

That's the reason for the second check valve at the tank.

Dave in NH

 

[California]

"Well Hardware" seems like the right thread to ask my question...

I discovered the original well right where I should have expected it, next to the water tower and straight below the windmill's plunger connection.

I need a new cover to shield the open well pipe. It measures about 5.75" ID. Is there some sort of standard plug or cap intended for this purpose? Where would I order it?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Egon]

Thank you.

Egon

 

[turnkey4099]

To sort out some questions that haven't really been made clear.

Two tanks:

Series: Input to tank one, oulet of tank one to input of tank two, outlet of tank two to house system.

Parallel: Pump to T - one leg to tank one, one leg to tank two.

As for operation. It really makes no difference at all altho in series any sediment will have a tendency to settle in tank one.

Reason for putting filter after the tank: The filter causes a restriction in the flow. You do not want the pump working against that. It adds wear and tear to the pump.

Harry K

 

[Dennisfly]

dbelisle,

Thanks for the professional input. It makes sense.



turnkey,

I like the way you explain things, simple and straight forward.

 

[SCB]

I will second the thanks!!! Nice to get good info from you all. I will install my filter after the pressure tank and advised.