Welding virgin needs direction ...

[dex3361]

I have done just a little mig welding so I really cant offer much here. I have stick welded for years no expert mind you but I get by. I have a AC/DC machine and will always have one. Small Hobart buzz box nothing fancy but it gets the job done. Here is a link to the unit I bought. Northern Tool Though I got mine at Tractor Supply.

 

[crazyal]

If you do decide to go with a 110v welder make sure you have a good 20 amp (30 amp is better) line with nothing else on it. They are pushing the edge on what a normal 110v circuit can handle. I've used a sp125 and found it a great little machine.

I think any of the 110v machine will weld anything you need to do. Remember you can weld multiple passes, very easy with MIG over flux core since you don't need to clean the weld before welding a second pass.Just use a grinder and angle the steel enough for the first bead to penetrate to the back edge (or center if your welding both sides) and then make a second pass to build it up.

 

[hizoot]

I can still remember my 5th birthday...:laughing: 50 years later

hey....didnt we go to different high schools together ?

 

[jayste]

Beppington, I think you've started in the right direction. Now I know the buyer should always beware but I got my mig off of Craigslist. A pawn shop posted it. It was brand new in the box. My Lincoln 180 is 220v but I'm sure there's one out there that would accomadate your needs. This one sold new for over $600 and I got it for $400 plus tax. I guys it does pay to shop around.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Depending on the size gas bottle, reserve a couple hundred bucks for the bottle if you buy and off course filling it. Rental will probably set you back a deposit and 10-15 bucks a month demerge cost. I find it better to buy the bottle. Larger bottles cost more, but are cheaper per cubic foot of gas to fill (labor to fill eats into the small bottles) and sometimes those pony bottles 35-50 cubic feet will cost as much as the 230 cubic foot to fill. But if you dont weld a lot, 60 cubic feet (standard size C -about 30" tall)is a good size to handle.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I too second Craigslist. While owning new and the comfort of a warranty are nice, welders (the name brand ones) are tough critters. If you only plan to weld recreationally I think you will never see the value of a warranty. Maybe you will put 20 or 30 hours on it in the first year. These machines are made for 2000 hours a year...

I guage my craigs purchase by the shop. If it is nice and clean and kept, the guy/gal is probably selling it to make room.

Also, go for a 220 v welder. I thought I would only weld 1//4" but I seem to only be welding 1/2" these days.

Carl

 

[picker77]

Even if you add a wire feed welder later for lighter metals and prettier welds, start with a good quality DC-capable 220V stick welder and 6010 or 6013 rods and an auto-darkening helmet. Your original post said you were interested in farm implement construction and repair, and 1/4" is at the light end of what you'll be doing in that area, with 3/8" being much more common and some 1/2" or even larger being required. I'm self-taught on a Lincoln 225 AC/DC bought from Sam's club 15 years ago, and using 1/16", 3/32", and 1/8" rod sizes it has done everything I need to do, farm-wise. I'd like to add a nice Miller wire feed rig for lightweight tubing and sheet metal, but the prices vs the only occasional frequency of use it would get just haven't been compatible with my wallet so far. But I certainly wouldn't trade my Lincoln AC/DC stick welder for one.

I'm definitely in agreement with those who say go with a 220V AC/DC stick welder to start with (DC capability is important, I run mine 99% on DC vs AC). Don't bother with a stick welder that runs on 120V. Good luck!

 

[Chilly807]

I'm at the other end of the spectrum, as far as preferences go. I agree that the 220V DC stick and 220V MIG is the ideal combination ( I can't argue much, that's what I have) , but the 110 MIG will be easier for a beginner to use, particularly on light material. There's more to go wrong with the wire feeder, so the warranty isn't a bad idea. I'd be iffy about buying a used one, I had no issue buying a used stick welder.

In an ideal situation, the OP would have 220V 50 amp service ready to go and the budget wouldn't be a concern. If you're going to stay under $1K you're usually buying one newer welder, and if it has to be 110V the MIG outshines the small 110V sticks.

I sold my Miller 135 for $500 to a co-worker, he got a pretty good deal in my opinion, and it gave me some cash to go shopping for other "essentials". I didn't give it away by any standards.

If Beppington is buying a helmet, decent gloves, wire brushes, and gas along with the 110 welder itself, it'll kick the good out of $1K by the time he's done.

There may be a rewire for 20A service too, most household stuff is 15A. It will run ok on 15A, but may trip the breaker at higher settings. Mine was as easy as running 12/2 armored cable to a 20A fuse in my panel, or could be changing a breaker to 20A instead of 15A as long as the existing wire can safely carry 20 amps.

Once he's up and welding with the MIG, there's time to add 220V service and shop for a good used stick, then you've got the best of both worlds. One machine excels at light material and tacking, the other deals with heavier stuff and building up material.

If I hadn't got my 220 MIG for free (another good story) I'd still have the 135 and a used stick, and in reality it's all I'd need, except I added the capability to use a spool gun with the 180 Miller.

My :2cents:

Sean

 

[Johnbro]

I bought a cheap HF 220v MIG on sale, but the other stuff really adds up quickly. AD helmet (HF), gas tank, gas, clamps, mig pliers, wire, replacement consumables, clamps, cart if you don't have wheels on your welder, grinder, wire wheels, clamps, welding table, leather apron, leather gloves, and did I mention clamps?:laughing:

If you go to weldingweb.com you'll find some long and useful info on usablilty of 120v MIG welders--the consensus is basically that they're good for sheet metal but not so hot for fab. I'd have to agree that a stick welder is the way to go for heavier steel. I used one when I was in my 20s in an auto repair biz and I don't think they're that hard to learn. Sure, wirefeed is easier but if you have an AD helmet and reasonable hand-eye coordination it's not rocket science. As long as you're ok with sound but butt-ugly welds you'll be fine.And you can buy the famous Lincoln tombstone welders on Craigslist for practically nothing all day long. HTH.

 

[beppington]

Wow more good info! I really want to get a new Millermatic with the Auto Set. I've never been one to have the patience to search for good used stuff or deal with the problems used stuff can have. Too often it seems to turn out, "There's a reason he sold it."

And yes I do still need an AD helmet. And gas bottle of course. Oh Santa ...?!?

My problem right now is figuring out where to weld. My 22x28 barn is full of my boat, & I have real options with that. My 2-car garage is full of a car & my truck.

So, good grief, it seems I need to add on to my barn just to weld!?! :confused2:

I guess I could weld in the driveway right outside my barn Maybe make 2 or 3 portable wind-blocker walls.

Question: I do have a 4x8 work table with a roof over it behind my barn. If I slapped a 4x8 piece of steel over the existing plywood work surface, being exposed to the elements, would that steel rust so quickly that it would be useless quickly? I guess I could get maybe a 3'x4' piece of steel & just lay it down out there only when using it? Bring it inside when not in use. I could use 4 bricks to set the steel up off the plywood. And if the worst happend & the whole thing burned down, not the absolute end of the world.

I also have much better access to be able to modify the electrical out there. (I have lites & outlets installed in the table now)

 

[beppington]

I bought a cheap HF 220v MIG on sale, but the other stuff really adds up quickly. AD helmet (HF), gas tank, gas, clamps, mig pliers, wire, replacement consumables, clamps, cart if you don't have wheels on your welder, grinder, wire wheels, clamps, welding table, leather apron, leather gloves, and did I mention clamps?:laughing:

If you go to weldingweb.com you'll find some long and useful info on usablilty of 120v MIG welders--the consensus is basically that they're good for sheet metal but not so hot for fab. I'd have to agree that a stick welder is the way to go for heavier steel. I used one when I was in my 20s in an auto repair biz and I don't think they're that hard to learn. Sure, wirefeed is easier but if you have an AD helmet and reasonable hand-eye coordination it's not rocket science. As long as you're ok with sound but butt-ugly welds you'll be fine.And you can buy the famous Lincoln tombstone welders on Craigslist for practically nothing all day long. HTH.

I anticipate welding not only tractor implements & utility trailer type stuff, but also artsy things, maybe gates, where the weld should look nice.

 

[robs660]

Hobart or Miller are your best bets in the under $1k market. I have machines from Miller Hobart and Lincoln and the only one I don't love is from Lincoln. The hobart handler welders are great for learning and getting started. If there is some way you can get 220v power your life / quality of weld / and electric bill will be better.
Good luck - I might also suggest getting a portable band saw dewalt or Milwalkee brand ones. They are really useful and for the price worth having around. you can do many things that you just dont want to do with a cut off wheel.

 

[Chilly807]

Question: I do have a 4x8 work table with a roof over it behind my barn. If I slapped a 4x8 piece of steel over the existing plywood work surface, being exposed to the elements, would that steel rust so quickly that it would be useless quickly? I guess I could get maybe a 3'x4' piece of steel & just lay it down out there only when using it? Bring it inside when not in use. I could use 4 bricks to set the steel up off the plywood. And if the worst happend & the whole thing burned down, not the absolute end of the world.

I also have much better access to be able to modify the electrical out there. (I have lites & outlets installed in the table now)

I use my garage for welding, or at least just outside the main door. I try to grind and weld so that sparks stay outside, grinding in particular is dirty work. The house rule is, someone has to be home for at least 2-3 hours after any welding or grinding finishes to keep an eye out for smoke and fire. If I can't guarantee that before I start, no work that day.

All I use for a welding table is a piece of 3/4 plywood on folding table legs. If it's going to be prolonged or starts to get the top too black from heat, I'll lay a piece of sheet metal on top for a heat shield. If there's any doubt as to the wood top being a source of fire, it stays outside. I'm starting to look for another one that can have a 1/4 inch aluminum top and folding legs to save space. There's always a risk of fire when welding, it comes with the territory. How you manage it is your choice.

There are two schools of thought as to welding locations. Either have it close enough you can keep an eye on it til everything is definitely cool, or have it far enough from anything valuable that if it does burn, nothing else will catch fire.

Sparks from a grinder will burn through the paint on a garage door, and rust will result. My new door in the old house was evidence of that.. I'm more careful now.

Welding outside with a MIG brings it's own problems, wind blows the shielding gas away. I've used flux-core wire before when I was exposed to the wind, now I'll dig the stick welder out.

Sean

 

[Willl]

I do most of my welding just outside the garage door. Have fears of a hot wondering BB camping in some corner and coming back to life.

"Auto Set". No thanks. Wasn't that difficult to learn where it should be set and then learn what it should 'sound' like while running to fine tune.

 

[patrick_g]

I see a basic conflict in that the OP has conflicting requirements.

1. has to run on 115 volts (assume 15 or no more than 20 amp circuit.)
2. must weld 1/4 inch steel

I have a Lincoln Weld Pak 100 which is a 115 volt powered MIG. I love it but... it does not do a good job on 1/4 inch steel. You need multiple passes, at best and will still feel like you want (to quote Tim the Tool Man Taylor) MORE POWER!!!

The Lincoln Weld Pak is 15 years old and has withstood considerable abuse. I highly recommend it for anyone wanting to do steel up to 3/16 or for easy tack welding setting up work for a stick welder.

I recently bought a Hobart Handler 210 (230 VAC powered) and it welds circles around my beloved Weld Pak. For a portable welder (handle on top and no wheels) the handler 210 is a potent machine. It weighs 77 lbs and with a large spool of flux cored wire 88 lbs. I made a stand/mount to hold it on my welding trailer for transport and use (if you can get close enough to the work) but made the hold down attachment easy to release so I can rove about away from the trailer (within 60 ft, length of my 240 volt 50 amp extension cord.)

You don't need continuous heat control (amps), tapped is fine if you have continuous wire feed speed control. Also if you will be welding outside you can skip the shielding gas as any decent wind blows it away. Flux cored wire is way better for windy welding and the flux cored wire only machines are cheaper. Shielding gas is great indoors and will give you prettier welds with less splatter and no chipping.

Whatever you decide to get... the key to good welding is learning from your mistakes and practice practice practice. A qualified coach is worth all the beer and barbecue they can handle. I always regretted not having a coach and never taking a class.

Pat

 

[Gary Fowler]

Let me make a statement on welding with MIG, TIG, SMAW, SAW or any other process for home use. Note that I said for home use. All these processes require multiple passes to weld if you are going to do a good job. Even the 480V rigs cant carry a 1/2" fillet weld and tie in to the sides and bottom of the weld puddle without cold lap unless you are a really experienced welder and even then it is not recommended. Very few welding procedures will allow you to run more than a 1/2" filler pass regardless of machine capability, process or wire size. MIG should be held to max of 3/8" even for the high amperage rated machines that can reach amperages so that the deposit is in spray mode rather than globular transfer which is what all the home machines do. The manufacturers claim of thickness that can be welded is a big crock and of no value to you in choosing a machine and I think Mark with Everlast will verify this. Look at the amperage rating and duty cycle to determine the ability of the machine. The larger machine, the larger fillet you can make with them by increasing the wire diameter and amperage to the electrode to the max the machine can handle up to a limit of what can be fused together. IF you carry too big of a filler pass, then it becomes a rope of metal layed on top and not fused to the parent metal or fused in spots but not solid fused weld metal.
When purchasing a welding machine, dont pay attention to the material thickness stated on the propaganda brochure, look at the duty rating for maximum amperage and get the one with the highest rating that you can afford. A 150 amp machine with a 75% duty cycle is more useful than a 250 amp with 10% duty cycle. Most placards with give you multiple listing for different amperages. A 200 amp machine with a 10% duty rating means that you can only run that machine for 1 minute then it needs to cool for 9 minutes so your rating is not doing you much good if you can only weld one 6 minutes out of an hour. That is the advantage you get with the larger machines, sometimes. Some of the HF machines have such a low duty cycle that they are of no practical use unless you are just tack welding.

I recommend that you watch for a used industrial stick rod machine that is 220/480 capable and install a suitable electrical circuit for 50 amps service. Watch on Craiglist or other local publication for a used Miller or Lincoln DC or AC/DC stick machine and get that as your primary welder. You can supplement that with your choice depending on how deep your pockets are. I got my Miller AC/DC and CC/CV (means I can run a wire feeder from this machine) machine from a fabrication shop that got rid of it because he rarely used it. I Got 100 feet of welding cable and machine for $450. When I built my shop I had a 220v- 50 amp circuit and plug installed for the welding machine at the front of the shop so I could do my work outside if needed and not have to run too far with the leads. I have a little 110v wire feed that was given to me that I have used maybe 3 times in 20 years for really light stuff. If when I retire and have lots of time to piddle, I may look at a wire feeder for my Miller.