Welding Question

[DanD78]

You might try another brand of wire such as Lincoln or ESAB. Smaller wires will not hold as much flux as larger. Cheeper is not always better. You should not have to spend all your time on prep work before welding.

Try keeping a short arc and the amps cut back to where you get a nice wet puddle.

Dan

 

[LD1]

I can also reccomend not to use brakekleen either.

I have never done it until this past weekend, when I was working on building my dump bed, and after drilling some 1" holes with the drill press ( we use gear lube for drilling oil) I used brakekleen to remove the excess oil and metal chips. I let them air dry for about 5 min, crawled under the truck and welded them. The fumes were enough to gag a maggot. Very srong and pungent.

 

[J_J]

While looking up brake cleaner, I found that manufactures use different compounds in the products, so the products are not all the same ingredients. Some will make you sick, others hard to breathe, and some even produce a poisonous gas when heated.

I have used it before, but will rethink on it's use. I would suggest Dawn detergent, scrub, then rinse and let dry.

 

[boxygen]

I remember the article that someone posted not long ago in one of the forums about using brake cleaner and welding. It was eye opening. The issue was with welding with Gas, specifically argon mixing with one of the chemicals in brake cleaner and combusting creates a very potent mixture of white smoke that takes a very tiny bit to cause very serious neurological issues that can last hours, days or permanent. If inhaled the effects will start instantly. If I remember correctly the OP was welding with flux core so that wont be an issue and it takes somewhat of a "pefect storm" to get the cumbustion and chemicals together but the risk is significant. Supposedly, this is addressed in the MSDS of a can of brake-cleaner, but how many of you have read it? I dont even recall in getting one with a can of cleaner. I couldnt find the post with a quick search.

 

[towmotor]

Read up on the ill effects of oxygenated (burned) brake cleaner.

There's no way I'm going to persist in my opinion, just to be right.

The possibility, it turns out, of igniting trapped pockets of liquid brake cleaner (and probably other solvents) when welding is the real issue.
I've never noticed a problem because I always managed to remove all of the liquid cleaner before welding.
But, when working on old, rusty stuff, there are lots if little crevices where the stuff could hide.
My conclusion is that possibility, in itself, is enough to avoid using brake cleaner in the future; I'm not usually a very lucky guy.
I was this time.

Thanks to zman for bringing this up.

 

[Danno1]

.


I remember seeing that link. The brake cleaner turned into Phosgene gas when heated. But like another poster said, there are many different formulations of brake cleaner.


.

 

[Egon]

For the OP: Have you tried turning up the heat a bit?

 

[nunyabinis]

Obviously, don't use brakekleen:

Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article



I'll have to check the active ingrediant on Carb Cleaner

 

[Chilly807]

Dan78 had a good point, try shortening the arc a bit. I've got a Miller 180, used to have a Miller 135.

I use a tri-mix gas called Auto-Weld (Praxair) for most of my steel welding, but I've used flux-core with good results outdoors. I think what you're getting is too cold a puddle of metal which allows the melted flux to form pockets. If the arc is shortened a bit, the puddle stays hotter and forces the flux to the outside where it belongs to protect the weld from contaminants.

You may have to drop the power a little to prevent burn through once you shorten the arc, but you'll get better penetration and a cleaner weld.

Also, try a weaving motion with the arc, straight lines are more likely to give you problems with puddle temperature and weld profiles.

Chilly

 

[redharley]

I would not want to do all this extra scubing ,cleaning,or extra grinding would make welding no fun at all after a while. If you have a torch outfit it will only take a few seconds of heat to prep your steel or better yet add co2 to your outfit like mentioned before or for thicker stuff get a stick welder takes a little getting use to but worth the effort.

 

[bobodu]

Torches,brake cleaner,preheating,grinding,different wires,gases....$900???


Arc welder!!

 

[Reg]

I don't get it.
Are you saying that you get a crappy root pass and then just wash weld over it to make it LOOK pretty ?
If not I apologize for my misunderstanding.

We do ALL KNOW that gouging it out and starting over is the right thing to do, right ?
Anything else is just about certain to fail - assuming.... well, all kinds of things that are normal practice, such as it needs to be a however many pass weld.

 

[Egon]

such as it needs to be a however many pass weld.

Pictures would be excessivelly expensive for this type of situation.

 

[nunyabinis]

I don't get it.
Are you saying that you get a crappy root pass and then just wash weld over it to make it LOOK pretty ?
If not I apologize for my misunderstanding.

We do ALL KNOW that gouging it out and starting over is the right thing to do, right ?
Anything else is just about certain to fail - assuming.... well, all kinds of things that are normal practice, such as it needs to be a however many pass weld.

Basically you are correct. Crappy root pass using either a Z pattern or a circular pattern with the torch.

I can then clean the slag off and weld right back over the top of the root weld (as if it wasn't there) with either a Z pattern or a circular pattern and it "cleans it up" as you say, has no porosity and leaves a very nice looking deep weld.


Words don't do justice to just how "crappy" the root weld is on this new 1/4" thick metal. I'll post some pics when I get the chance.


And yes, I know the correct procedure is to gouge out the original weld but I was "experimenting" and the item I was welding, a rifle bench, really isn't going to be under any appreciable load. But I plan to build a road scraper like a GradeMaster and I'd really like to figure out the problem before I start welding on something that WILL have a big load applied.

 

[nunyabinis]

Here's a picture of the finished rifle bench I was doing the welding on. You can see the old wobbly wooden bench in the background. The metal bench does NOT wobble.


I know it has nothing to do with tractors but variety is the spice of life and I wanted to practice on this metal with an easy project before I jumped into the road scraper project.


Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of the "crappy" root passes. I'll have to make more crappy welds and take pics.

 

[sizzami]

actually sandblasting is what drives impurities into metal ,well more into the crack or joint you are trying to weld, sandblasting should be used as a last resort , especially if you are repairing a crack.

 

[ben2go]

Here's a picture of the finished rifle bench I was doing the welding on. You can see the old wobbly wooden bench in the background. The metal bench does NOT wobble.


I know it has nothing to do with tractors but variety is the spice of life and I wanted to practice on this metal with an easy project before I jumped into the road scraper project.


Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of the "crappy" root passes. I'll have to make more crappy welds and take pics.

That's a great looking set up you made.I can't add anymore than others have already added about the welding issue.

 

[nunyabinis]

That's a great looking set up you made.

Thanks. I designed it so that when you sit in a regular height chair the butt of the rifle stock fits right into your shoulder pocket. The rear of the bench top is beveled on both sides so that a righty or lefty can use the bench with ease. The legs are buried two feet deep. Makes for a darn solid rest.

 

[swines]

Use a flap wheel along the weld pass area to clean it if you're using hot rolled steel or tubing. Then use acetone to clean the metal. You'll be surprised at the dirt + oil the acetone will pull off the metal. The acetone will flash off the surface rapidly and leave a residue-free, clean, surface to weld.

 

[esimmons]

A while back I purchased a Millermatic 251 MIG welder that I run .045 flux-core wire through. I always grind/polish the area I intend to weld before laying a bead, however, I've noticed that on some brand new 1/4 inch steel I bought that the first bead always looks terrible with open "bubbles" that form once the weld hardens. I can go back over the same area a second time and the weld looks perfect. It's almost as if the first bead evaporates some sort of contamination and "prepares" the metal for the second pass.

Is there some sort of contamination on the surface of the metal that I'm not completely removing when I grind/polish the metal? The metal has some sort of think oily coating on it that I assume is supposed to keep it from rusting. What's the best way to clean that off before I lay a bead?


Thoughts?

Most new steel is coated with a cosmoline-type material at the factory to prevent rust.
One of my first jobs at a welding shop was to soak a rag in laquer thinner and wipe down all the material we were about use for a particular job. You need to wipe it down before grinding. Otherwise the grinder just smears it around, as well as produce heat, which opens the pores and drives the oil into the steel. Laquer thinner in 5 gal. cans is pretty cheap compared to grinding discs and welding wire.