Welder electroquted Sad...

[aczlan]

I don't know if 220 in Europe is different but they have far fewer problems with electrocution at home. Maybe theirs is a true 220 while ours is piggybacked double 110.

In the US, 110v is always 110v from hot to neutral and 220v from hot to hot (and it alternates from +110v to -110v in relation to neutral 60 times per second, with 220v one side is at +110v while the other is at -110v).
The EU spec is 220v from hot to neutral and it alternates from +220v to -220v (in relation to neutral) 50 times per second, so if a higher voltage is more dangerous, theirs should be more dangerous.


Aaron Z

 

[IslandTractor]

In the US, 110v is always 110v from hot to neutral and 220v from hot to hot (and it alternates from +110v to -110v in relation to neutral 60 times per second, with 220v one side is at +110v while the other is at -110v). The EU spec is 220v from hot to neutral and it alternates from +220v to -220v (in relation to neutral) 50 times per second, so if a higher voltage is more dangerous, theirs should be more dangerous. Aaron Z

It's not the voltage so much as the cycle rate per second that is dangerous. As I recall, 60 cycle is more likely to interrupt normal heart rhythm than 50 cycle. i'll see if I can find a reference.

 

[IslandTractor]

It's not the voltage so much as the cycle rate per second that is dangerous. As I recall, 60 cycle is more likely to interrupt normal heart rhythm than 50 cycle. i'll see if I can find a reference.

It is a bit more complicated. Lower cycles per second are less dangerous but I'm not sure the difference between 50 and 60 cycle is great. 25 cycles per second is tolerated much better. DC is low risk as there is no cycling.

Amperage matters too. Paradoxically, with cardiac fibrillation risk, lower amps are worse than higher.

And, remember that cardiac events are only one way that electricity kills. Thermal burns from truly high power sources do more damage.

 

[drizler]

Sad. I wonder why the deputy and family did not break into the facility rather than waiting for a person to show up with a key? With his car there in the lot, it would be reasonable to assume he was in the facility. It doesn't say how long that wait was, but response time could make a difference in many situations if not this one.

That's exactly what I was thinking. That deputy had plenty of reason to force a door . They don't have to wait for someone to show up if it takes all night.

 

[TomSeller]

Dead is dead. Thinking that AC is less dangerous because you can let go " because the power oscillates " is an interesting theory.

Enough said

 

[brain55]

This is an interesting debate on AC vs DC. I'm not an electrical engineer so I only know what I've been taught and hope that I'm not taught wrong. I received factory Cushman training on their 72v ZEV like what NYPD used for their "meter maids". They spend a lot of time cautioning us about "DC death" on these high voltage/high amperage machines. One of the first things you did when working on them was to raise the cover that also mechanically split the batteries into 2 36v packs to reduce the electrocution risk. They continually warned us about how dangerous that much DC current could be. I have no reason to doubt them.

I also had a welding teacher that opened the back of a 480v welding machine and got electrocuted and lived to tell about it. Apparently it contracted all of his muscles and he spent 6 months in the hospital recovering and many years relearning some motor functions and lots of psychotherapy to overcome the ringing in his ears. He seemed fine by the time I had him as a teacher.

 

[CNC Dan]

I don't know if 220 in Europe is different but they have far fewer problems with electrocution at home.

Europe. I didn't catch that.
Yes, I think Europe 220 volt system is different than North America 220 volt system.

 

[drizler]

I don't know if 220 in Europe is different but they have far fewer problems with electrocution at home. Maybe theirs is a true 220 while ours is piggybacked double 110.

That Euro 220 still bites really bad. When I was stationed over there I had an old brass lamp in my room. One of those nice tall ones. If you grabbed that thing just right and flicked the switch it would bite you hard. Not just a snap but that real bite that left your whole arm numb for a while.
I would say the real reason for fewer electrocutions is the 2 small round electrode holes recessed into the wall . They are about 1/4 the size of our blade configuration so it's that much easier to stick the knife, wire or whatever in it.

 

[MossRoad]

According to some facebook posts on the News site, an elleged coworker said "It happened 5 min before we clocked out so nobody noticed. He was in a steel box 100 foot long in the middle so he couldnt be seen."

 

[MossRoad]

I've been bit by 120, 240, 208, and a couple others... all more than 20 years ago and all in metal cabinets that wires had rubbed and made the cabinets 'hot'. None of them were fun. No physical damage. Darn lucky to not get it worse. I now have a habit of checking the cabinet to ground with a meter before working on things.

I've also been shocked with an arc welder. Kneeling on a piece of work, clothes soaked from sweat, putting in a new stick without turning off the welder. Not pleasant. Don't do that anymore. Again, that was years back.

I suggest anyone interested in learning welding take some welding classes at your local community college, or from a professional welder. Well worth the investment. :thumbsup:

 

[TomSeller]

I recall showing an electrician where to terminate wires and for some stupid reason I reached out and touched two phases of a 480V live circuit. Fortunately I was wearing rubber soled shoes and it was finger to finger. It bit pretty good, about like 120V to a good ground which I have done more times than I care to admit. Those were back in the day of working circuits hot. I knew many old timers who tested voltage with their fingers. "Yeah, that is 480".

 

[aczlan]

I would say the real reason for fewer electrocutions is the 2 small round electrode holes recessed into the wall . They are about 1/4 the size of our blade configuration so it's that much easier to stick the knife, wire or whatever in it.

That and the newer "europlug" is designed so that the metal part of the pins is inside the socket before it gets energized (as seen below):

Source: Europlug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aaron Z

 

[Dave M7040]

My story is going to tell you a lot about my age (old). Isolation transformers. They were installed in most bathrooms before the days of GFCI receptacles, usually in the light over the mirror where there was a two prong plug to provide power for an electric razor. I saw them in an industrial environment where we would have to work inside large steel tanks. A 110 volt to 110 volt transformer was placed just outside the entrance to the tank to provide power for lights and hand tools like grinders. The idea with an isolation transformer is that you cannot get a shock by touching a hot wire and a ground such as the tank as the only current path available on the isolated side of the transformer is if you touch both wires of the transformer which is unlikely in an accident situation. Without the isolation transformer, the whole steel tank becomes a path to ground and you are surrounded by it. In your home, the faucets are a path to ground (with metallic plumbing) if you do not have the isolation transformer. Welding machines that incorporate a transformer act like an isolation transformer but unfortunately the ground clamp is not insulated and what you are welding is connected to the isolated side of the welding transformer.
I hope we get some real details of the accident so we can all learn and be safer.
Dave M7040

 

[k0ua]

I doubt we ever know what happened to the unfortunate weldor.

 

[Soundguy]

I am aware of the small milliamp needed to cause cardiac arrest but it just isn't there for a properly functioning welding machine. .

I wonder if it was a fault in t he power cord side of the weling machine...

 

[IslandTractor]

I doubt we ever know what happened to the unfortunate weldor.

I suspect OSHA will put considerable effort into the investigation. This is exactly the sort of thing that justifies their existence. If there is a lesson to be learned they need to dig it out.

 

[Soundguy]

I doubt we ever know what happened to the unfortunate weldor.

sadly...

 

[tcartwri]

That and the newer "europlug" is designed so that the metal part of the pins is inside the socket before it gets energized (as seen below):
View attachment 392557
Source: Europlug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aaron Z

They also switch virtually every wall socket in your home. So the socket isn't usually hot when you plug something in.

 

[roadhunter]

Working on floating boat docks getting shocked is pretty common for the guys doing the welding. Its' really fun when you are welding away and then a wave crashes into you completely submerging you and your weld for a couple of seconds.