Unhooking pto with engine off?

[fixit]

Sound guy your last statment. Try and be carefull about the rest sums it up really

So just to be carefull i turn off the engine not just for to pto issue im about to climb in between 2 large bits of heavy machinery and couple it together if the key is in my pocket then the chance of getting hurt is less

Im not on the side of the safety police but i like to feel in control of what is happening around me it is just what you feel safe with isnt it:thumbsup:

I guess the more you use a machine the less likely you are to turn it off because it doesn't start on its own does it

but it could just like all your other examples:laughing:


Ps i don't think it turned off the angle grinder last time a changed the disc but then i do about 10 or so most days i never use to key either just tighten it up with the spindle lock in and pull on the disc and to remove i just give the edge of the disc a bump with the flat of my gloved hand with the spindle lock in. See were im going here the more you do it the safer it seems to be

Nothing like being complacent is there :confused2:

Cheers Chris

 

[RaydaKub]

See were im going here the more you do it the safer it seems to be.

You know, to a certain extent, that really is a true statement. It's the opposite side of the coin. When you first get the equipment, you are unfamiliar with it and how things can go together. You can make some mistakes in how it hooks up just because you don't realize that a certain order can make it more dangerous. Once you've done it 2 or 3 times, you avoid the silly practices and do it right; the safe(r) way. Of course, then on time 379, there is something unexpected and an accident happens.

I guess my recommendation is that someone teach you how the first 2 times, then trade the equipment off some time before attempt #378. :laughing::laughing:

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. it's all personal comfort level. I personally unplug my grinder to change the wheel, but think nothing about hooking up the stationary pto shaft of my running tractor.

( I actually don't un plug it. I have 3 quad boxes or power at my work bench, with 1 hot all the time, and 2 on switched circuits.. so all I do is hit the switch to kill the quad ).. therein is an issue too.. what if the switch fails

i don't begrudge anyone wanting to be more or less safe.. just be prepaired for the consequences to yourself ( or others )what you do when being more or less safe.

I'm a big rops preacher on some threads.. not their use.. but their modification. 90% of my tractors don't have rops.. no biggie.. but I'd rather run with NO rops.. than run with a modified rops. the modified rops may give me a false sense of comfort i am safe.. but that weld or series of drill holes i put in it may fail when it shouldn't have. thus, me, personally, Ilike a un modified rops.. or no rops. at least I know my chances either way..

soundguy

 

[JHTFarmer]

Soundguy, someone might make the same argument for cleaning loaded handguns. "It's a dangerous world guys, but I know what I'm doing."

Please give me one good reason to attach or detach a PTO implement with the engine running. "real men leave the engine running" isn't that reason.

 

[TripleR]

Agreed, we can't and most of us wouldn't want to live in a totally "safe" world, but we can eliminate some of those risks. Just because we can't eliminate them all does not mean we shouldn't eliminate as many as possible and still allow us to operate in and enjoy our usual environment.

While it can be argued that the risk of injury from hooking up a PTO while the engine is running is small, it is non existent when the engine is not running.

We all must determine for ourselves what risk level with which we are comfortable.

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy, someone might make the same argument for cleaning loaded handguns. "It's a dangerous world guys, but I know what I'm doing."

Please give me one good reason to attach or detach a PTO implement with the engine running. "real men leave the engine running" isn't that reason.

any good one.. Hm..

Ok.. my tractor battery is dead.. but the engine is running, if I shut her off to disconnect the pto shaft and drop the mower ( drag harrow or whatever cumbersome implement I have on there.. huge disc.. etc.. etc.. ) at the farm property, I have to walk 8m home to go get my truck and then drive back over, jump start the tractor and / or take tools with me to fix the charge system, then drive back home and walk 8m back to the tractor to bring it home, unless I also bring the trailer as long as it's free and not being used for something else.

could substitute 'starter died' in that same mythical story and pretty much accomplish the same thing.. except it would be even harder to get the tractor home then...

I'd say 'broke key off in ignition'.. but that ones a non starter for me.. too easy to hotwire a tractor to let loss of a key be an issue..... COULD be an issue for someone who don't know how to hotwire a tractor though.

there's your -non- 'real men leave it running' reason..


soundguy

 

[tcreeley]

Wouldn't it be better to have a buddy unhook the pto shaft while the tractor is still running and your foot is on the clutch? Then you could watch for lightening and warn him if it looked bad!:laughing::laughing::confused2:

 

[chipsndust]

I'll respond in this post similar as I did in the last one. (Especially for new or inexperienced tractor owners)

If your PTO is engaged by "pulling up a button" or "flipping a switch" (i.e., electrical vs. mechanical engagement) you should never connect or disconnect anything to the PTO shaft with the engine running.

Personally, I would shut the engine off regardless of the type of PTO.

I got time, a good battery, and bad luck.

 

[LastSTRAW]

Here is your reason (not a great one but the one I use) You leave the engine running because you need to raise or lower the 3 pt hitch to hook or unhook your equipment. You have one last thing to hook up and it is the PTO shaft. What do you do? Run around to the front of the tractor turn it off come to the back, hook it up, go back and restart? OR hook up the PTO and drive away?

The first is saferr the second is faster. I do both depending on the situation If I don't need the 3 pt hitch to lift, the tractor is normally off.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. I do the same. use the 3pt to help move things when hitching or un hitching.. again.. all what feels comfortable to the individual.

frankly I think it takes nads these days is to hop in a small car like a 'smart' or similar and drive around town with 9gallons of highly flamable liquid a few feet from your body, with less engine and acceleration under the hood than the average kids avt or dirtbike, and setting at a level where you can see the UNDERSIDE of the bed of the average 1 ton truck, and their trailer hitch is about at your head level

now that takes nads!

soundguy

 

[JHTFarmer]

This is a traumatic PTO amputation I took care of a couple of years ago. He was drilling fence post holes and the auger shaft was uncovered. The photo was taken minutes after we got him in the OR. Still has a tightly bound tourniquet on. Notice the bruising on the upper arm. The floppy spaghetti strings down below are nerves, they pulled out of the forearm. The shaft broke the humerus like a pencil lead. Whole thing happened in an instant. The guy said it didn't even hurt when it happened. Just felt like he got pushed real hard. They brought the elbow/forearm/hand in on ice. Not a chance in **** that could have been sewed back on.

 

[Soundguy]

And?

I can post some horriffic car accident photo's.....and yet I still drive to work...

life's not easy or safe.

Just to be clear though as it sounds like you brought an 'orange' to the 'apple' comparison contest.

Was your guy standing or working near that 'running' fence post auger? or was he standing next to a non running auger, when the clutch fell down, pto shifter snapped back, and then clutch jumped back up and the pto suddenly engaged, catching him off guard as a moment ago he had been standing next to a non moving shaft?

well?

soundguy

 

[JHTFarmer]

I give up. Some people just won't listen to reason and just argue just for the sake of arguing. You just can't fix stupid.

 

[Andrewnewy]

I don't really want to comment, as simply it's up to the operator what they want to do. I personally do it both ways, but what I did want to say, is working at a tractor dealership it's actually quiet amazing how many PTO clutch's we replace of all brands of tractor. I have seen them fail while tractors have been at idle with PTO's off. So it can happen, and mostly the operator is safe.
The most often time they fail is when the tractor is hot after it has been working (also the most common time to disconnect something)

The biggest danger with PTO's is once they grab hold your stuck and all it's going to do is wrap you up. Even at idle a PTO is still spinning at 100 rpm, so your talking less than a second for your body part to get mulched.

Really it's no different than wearing a seat belt, 99% of the time it doesn't make any difference , but that 1% when someone else hits you, it could save your life.

 

[cowski]

i have operated a tractor for 40 years and i have never had a pto start on its own ,even a electric one.i too have loaded dead and hurt people into helicopters and ambulances.but i am not recommending people not to drive.but i would recommend to everyone not to text and drive.running pto's are dangerous and deserve respect.i have hooked up pto's with the engine running and jhtfarmer you have not convinced me to stop.

 

[Soundguy]

I give up. Some people just won't listen to reason and just argue just for the sake of arguing. You just can't fix stupid.

calling me, whom I'm assuming you are refering to, stupid, is patently offensive.

stupidity is the lack of intelegence.

I don't lack intelegence.

Doing soemthing dangerous is not specifically stupid by definition.

I'm fully aware of the risks.

jumping out of a good airplane with some rope and silk on my back.. seems dangerous.. but not stupid..

our military do it all the time.. i don't think they are stupid.. I think they are aware of the risks and doing it anyway.

Just because someone does not agree 100% with what you say does not make them stupid, nor does it mean they will not 'listen' to reason.

I'm listening, I'm just choosing to make a different choice than YOU -want- ME to.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm exercising my point of view, and right to not be a clone of you, and think exactly like you do. IE.. I'm a self aware and self guided individual. Not a robot clone that thinks and says the same thoughts and words that exit your mind/mouth/keyboard.

I've had heart problems... I don't drink or smoke. That doesn't mean that my free will to not drink or smoke should overide someone else's free will to do so... reguardless of the fact that i think it's dangerous and has bad long term implications to their life. They are aware of the risks, and choose to do so.

as long as everything is in the open an on the table... it's nothing more than a 'choice' to do something or not do something.

Please don't call me stupid again.. because my brain waves are not duplicates of yours.

soundguy

 

[SPYDERLK]

This is a traumatic PTO amputation I took care of a couple of years ago. He was drilling fence post holes and the auger shaft was uncovered. The photo was taken minutes after we got him in the OR. Still has a tightly bound tourniquet on. Notice the bruising on the upper arm. The floppy spaghetti strings down below are nerves, they pulled out of the forearm. The shaft broke the humerus like a pencil lead. Whole thing happened in an instant. The guy said it didn't even hurt when it happened. Just felt like he got pushed real hard. They brought the elbow/forearm/hand in on ice. Not a chance in **** that could have been sewed back on.

I give up. Some people just won't listen to reason and just argue just for the sake of arguing. You just can't fix stupid.

For some reason you are failing to display an understanding of the difference between spinning and stationary shafts. To you they apparently equate in some way.
larry

 

[Soundguy]

For some reason you are failing to display an understanding of the difference between spinning and stationary shafts. To you they apparently equate in some way.
larry

watch out larry.. you'll be dubbed 'stupid' next, for pointing out the obvious facts of the matter....

i've got no dog in this hunt. I do what i do, and seeing a picture won't change my mind much. again.. I've seen horrific car accidents.. yet i manage to force myself to dive to work every day.. because i sure as heck ain't walking

JHT is failing to recognize the difference between 'informed decision' and 'ignorance'.. if one is ignorant of certain facts, and gets hurt, it's a different matter philosophically vs one who is aware of the danger and gets hurt.

I wouldn't want to drive a car around a circle at over a hundred miles an hour whizzing past and thru other cars... but I don't begrudge jimmy johnson from doing so.... I think it's dangerous... the potential for loss of life for MANY people is constant, however.. I don't for a minute think any of the drivers are ignorant or stupid... merely informed and proceding...

soundguy