Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs?

Status
Not open for further replies.
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #321  
The greatest thing is we live in a country where we can chose who to buy from.
If imported goods are cheaper than the US made products, then people buy imports and US producers suffer, shut down or shift work overseas.
If imported goods are more expensive than US products, then US producers will hire more people to meet demand helping citizens.
More jobs means competitive wages to attract and keep workers.
I recently bought 60 fire extinguishers…

The USA made extinguishers cost $1 more per extinguisher.

I bought USA made.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #322  
Too bad we can't have free markets. And too bad we have a criminal government that inflates away the value of our fiat currency. We are ruled by a parasitic foreign cartel of bankers and corporations, no matter who is in office our circle of liberty shrinks and money and power keep flowing upwards.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #323  
An illustration of the typical effect of tarrifs:

View attachment 1906271

(I'm not saying they don't have any use at all, but they're usually surprisingly not well thought out)
Virtually nothing government does is well thought out, and doesn't do what it is supposed to do. Unless punishing us is the goal.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #324  
The tariffs may add some fixed costs to tractors, but that cost will most likely be far less than the decrease resulting from the restoration of American energy independence.

We should be seeing the price of oil drop back below $ 40 per barrel by June, 2025 after the pipelines thru Canada are reopened and drilling is resumed on Federal lands. That will more than cut fuel costs in half, saving much on transportation.
At least two things wrong with that assumption:

1. That Canadian oil will probably be subject to the tariffs imposed on imports from Canada. Oh, and importing Canadian oil doesn't promote "American energy independence."

2. While you can lead an oil producer to federal lands, you can't make him drill. And if he's already drilled, you can't make him pump. Oil producers have little incentive to increase production and thus lower profits.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #325  
I didn't want to mention any names because I don't want to start a flame war.

This was intended as a non-partisan comment on tariffs in general (which we may or may not get, I am not sure they can be imposed by executive order).

If you really want to be bored out of your mind, look up the Smoot-Hawley tariff act of 1930 which raised US import tariffs across the board to between 40 and 60 percent. The result of this was retaliatory tariffs, resulting in as much as a 30% loss in US exports. International trade dropped tremendously. Smoot-Hawley was one of the causes of the great depression, and the depression didn't end until mobilization at the start of WW2.

(If you don't learn from history, you are going to repeat it.)

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
The markets today are much different than those of 1930. We were a manufacturing country back then whereas now we are simply a consuming country with much less base manufacturing. A vast majority of what U.S. consumers buy today comes from China. Just try to find something that doesn't! It's not easy.

If you look back at the past 20 - 30 years, as manufacturing became concentrated in a few countries (mainly Korea then China) due to favorable labor rates and those countries governments incentives to have companies set up shop there, we have been slowly funneled into our goods coming from those areas. I know this firsthand as I worked for the international division of Frigidaire for 23 years and personally witnessed this happen, especially in Korea in the late 1980's then Mexico in the late 1990's. In that time however, tariffs have come and gone with little to no negative direct consumer impact. This has been for several reasons, the main one in recent times being that China has absorbed tariffs without raising prices. This is due to the gross trade imbalance between China and the U.S. today. So much of their economy rides on our purchasing power that they can't afford to sour that relationship. Further, tariffs can cause companies to relocate their manufacturing back in the USA or other more favorable countries like Mexico or even Thailand.

In the short term, U.S. consumers may see some impact from this policy however in the long term several positive outcomes are probable. One is that prices will come down due to competition. Once you remove the unfair advantage China has held for 30 years on trade, other areas will step up and compete for our business. Second, the quality will improve. Have you noticed the slow decay of quality in the last 10 - 15 years? Nothing lasts. We buy Christmas lights and they go bad every year so we buy them again. More money for China. We buy microwave ovens that used to last 15-20 years but now if you get 5 you're lucky. But we buy them again and China gets more money. However Finally, and I think more importantly, we as a nation need to get our eggs out of one big basket and diversify where our goods are made. What happens when anyone becomes dependent upon one source for the vast majority of what they need to live and survive? That one source has power over you that can be used against you. If that costs us a little more but releases us from a potential stranglehold and returns jobs to America, then the cost is justified.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #326  
I'll agree with much of your post until you try and call Social Security an "entitlement". The Social Security fund could have been and would be self supporting until the so called excess was skimmed off and put in the general fund coffers.
I paid into SS from the time I was 14 and working for my father on the farm, right up till I turned 65.
If that had gone into a growth fund it would have more then covered what I'll ever draw out. The ones that have never paid into the system and draw on it as a disability it certainly is an entitlement to them.
Also as far as the Medicare system goes I've been paying into that for a long time also, also for the Part B I pay $174.70 per month out of my pocket (going up to $185 for 2025) then I also pay for a supplement every month $266 per month then also $31 a month for prescription insurance also going up in January.
So people that call SS and Medicare an entitlement are correct in that we are entitled to it because we paid for ours and others.
It should not be part of the budget, it was theft when it became part of the annual budget.
I too paid into Social Security for many years. Even though I'm 75, and collecting, I'm still paying into the system because I remain self-employed as a farmer. They recalculate my benefit every year, based on the new addition to my earnings record. Because there were a few very lean years in that history, my benefit has been known to increase because I still work.
But I take exception to your assertion that if I had put that money into a private investment, I'd be better off. The truth is that it seemed like every time I managed to collect some savings, something came along to drain it away again. Those lean years I mentioned. The barn needs a new roof, the car dies, or weather cuts production. Something. The forced savings imposed by the government are keeping me solvent, now that I have enough "experience" that I can't do some of what I once could.
And BTW, the money that was "stolen" from Social Security was actually "borrowed." It became part of the National Debt. I seem to remember reading somewhere that we owe the largest portion of the National Debt to ourselves.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #327  
"The chief cause of problems is solutions." -- Eric Sevareid

Don't worry, TPTB will be fine....
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #328  
"The chief cause of problems is…”.

I love this!!!


Here’s a decades old article I really enjoyed reading:

How the World Works - The Atlantic
By James Fallows
DECEMBER 1993 ISSUE

In his op eds, Warren Buffett has spoken about trade a few times.
Here’s one:

America's Growing Trade Deficit Is Selling The Nation Out From Under Us. Here's A Way To Fix The Problem--And We Need To Do It Now. - November 10, 2003
 
Last edited:
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #329  
Years ago I paid less that $300 for a computer
I see a lot of the laptops are under $500 but
most of them must be at least 10 or more years
old as the speed is approx 2.5 mhz and dual core
rather slow Some of the new computers are 5 ghz
and 8 to 12 core

willy
I bought my first computer, an Atari 800, in 1985 at a garage sale for $25. It worked the way it was, but I soon tired of the tape drive that came with it and bought a floppy drive. Don't remember how much that cost. BTW, I still have it, and it still works, though I don't use it for anything but the occasional video game any more.
I bought a Windows 8 HP Pavilion a couple of years ago at another garage sale for $20. To be fair, the Pavilion's battery was no good, and had to be replaced. And I spent around $100 for a bigger SSD to replace the hard drive and for enough RAM to bring it to its max. Wiped out the horrible Windows 8 and replaced it with Mageia Linux. Works great. Does everything I ask of it.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #330  
Tariffs... a favorite tool of tyrants throughout history, which is simply a tax on the citizens, paid for by the instant inflation, yet offering a degree of separation so that the sheeple never associate it with the tyrant, but always somebody else. And they never work as planned, except for the tax part, which always works. Again, when the government says that it's for the good of the people, the lie every tyranny uses for control, always know that it isn't, but only for the good of the government and the elites running it.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #332  
I have been reading a lot of posts here. And there is a ton of insightful information & a lot of emotional responses as well. I try to look at the big picture & think the Majority can agree that there needs to be changes in the System before it is too late. Immigration, Economy, Heath Care, Education & Social Security to name a few. The Country cannot maintain the current path. And the Incoming Administration is going to make drastic changes. Let's hope for the good.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #333  
To paraphrase Anonymous "Be careful what you vote for."
Or perhaps more appropriately: "Be careful what you vote against." Seems people vote less for what they want than what they don't want: and we ratchet down the slippery slope that ends up delivering really poor "products."
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #334  
To be clear, according to reports the 25% tariffs will not be implemented, or if implemented will be removed, once Mexico and Canada stop the flow of illegal immigrants and fentanyl into the U.S. In other words, the next administration is going to use tariffs as a weapon to achieve economic and political outcomes which are in the best interest of America, fulfilling the America first policy. This is a great way for the next administration to effect foreign policy changes even before he takes office.

**checked 3 times for any political stuff.**
To be clear, people and things have been crossing boarders before there were boarders. Can’t see that tariffs will change that. Maybe we can talk about the domestic demands that fuel the proposed tariffs?
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #335  
I too paid into Social Security for many years. Even though I'm 75, and collecting, I'm still paying into the system because I remain self-employed as a farmer. They recalculate my benefit every year, based on the new addition to my earnings record. Because there were a few very lean years in that history, my benefit has been known to increase because I still work.
But I take exception to your assertion that if I had put that money into a private investment, I'd be better off. The truth is that it seemed like every time I managed to collect some savings, something came along to drain it away again. Those lean years I mentioned. The barn needs a new roof, the car dies, or weather cuts production. Something. The forced savings imposed by the government are keeping me solvent, now that I have enough "experience" that I can't do some of what I once could.
And BTW, the money that was "stolen" from Social Security was actually "borrowed." It became part of the National Debt. I seem to remember reading somewhere that we owe the largest portion of the National Debt to ourselves.
Everyone is different, my farm work since I retired is unpaid. So my doesn't increase any my wife is still working so hers does go up.
Back in my younger years in industrial construction I a few years when I maxed out my SS payments and my last 15 years were with a pretty good income.

And BTW, the money that was "stolen" from Social Security was actually "borrowed."
Borrowed and not repaid = stolen.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #336  
Mexican President said that Mexico is breaking up and dealing with two large groups of migrants before they reach the US border.

The plan isn't to actually implement tariffs. The plan is to use leverage, as always, to secure a better deal for the citizens of the US. I support using leverage to better our standing.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #337  
Everyone is different, my farm work since I retired is unpaid. So my doesn't increase any my wife is still working so hers does go up.
Back in my younger years in industrial construction I a few years when I maxed out my SS payments and my last 15 years were with a pretty good income.

And BTW, the money that was "stolen" from Social Security was actually "borrowed."
Borrowed and not repaid = stolen.
Not repaid - YET.
The day of reckoning is coming. When they do nothing, and what's left in the Social Security Trust Fund actually runs out, and benefits are reduced to 75% because less is coming in than is owed, then Congress will have to make up the difference from somewhere. Assuming, of course, that they wish to get re-elected.
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #338  
It appears we are soon going to have tariffs of 20% and more on anything imported from anywhere.

What does this mean for us here at TBN?

Unless tractors, accessories, attachments and parts get an exemption ("necessary services" or something), prices of imported tractors are going to go up by at least 20%. If we finance, payments will go up, since the tractors cost more, insurance (if applicable) will also go up.

Prices for used tractors will also go up (as if they aren't high enough already), just like the prices of used cars rose almost in lock-step with the increased prices and limited availability (from Covid) did on new cars.

As tractors become more and more expensive, we will either keep what we have longer or if we are in a business that relies on tractors, we will have to raise our prices when tractors and parts become significantly more expensive. Fewer tractors will be sold, because WE don't get a 20% raise to compensate for the 20% price increase from the tariffs.

Anyone who uses a tractor as a service (land clearing, mowing, etc.) will also have to raise their prices because their costs just increased.

This all means higher prices for lots of people, many of whom don't even realize there is a tractor somewhere in the "food chain" of goods and services they buy.

This affects Kubota, Kioti, Mahindra, some John Deere, and others. Deere moved part of their production to Mexico to keep the retail price down, and if they decide to come back, their prices will have to go up.

The issues with across the board tariffs are that they increase the cost of anything imported and WE pay these tariffs, not the manufacturers. Tariffs are a tax on US, and they are intended to discourage us from buying imported things, whether or not those things are even produced or available domestically.

A further problem is that when a domestic manufacturer is protected by arbitrary tariffs, they have ZERO incentive to improve their products (because there is no competition) and their prices can rise (again, because there is no competition). You may recall the "invasion" of Japanese cars in the 80s - Detroit had become totally complacent, and protected by tariffs, continued making and selling the same crappy cars they had been making for years. Eventually, they all went broke and had to be bailed out by the government, using OUR tax dollars to do it. (Yes, they eventually paid back most of the loans, and lots of jobs were saved. We may have to do it again because the current crop of Chinese electric cars are very good indeed, and amazingly inexpensive because they often are subsidized by their government.)

Arbitrary tariffs are a mistake. There is, however a rationale for targeted tariffs. If an overseas company is "dumping" their product at or below cost to put a domestic competitor out of business, that is a legitimate reason for a tariff. Interestingly, if it two domestic companies engage in a price war, there is no law against that, and in fact, it happens all the time.

After WW2, the US was the only real market for anything, nobody else had any money and they were busy rebuilding from the war. Now, however, there are lots of countries that can afford to buy imported stuff, and it might be very tempting to a tractor manufacturer (and not just to tractor manufacturers) to abandon what they see as a "hostile" market and sell to customers around the world instead.

Some of them MAY establish factories here, as Honda and Toyota have done, but some of them are simply going to say the US market just isn't worth the trouble and sell elsewhere. Establishing a local factory isn't done overnight, either.

In the interim, we'll have higher prices (new and used) and a narrower selection.

There is an old Chinese curse - "May you live in interesting times." We do.

(Kevlar and fireproof suit on!)

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
John Deere should have stayed in the US
 
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #339  
“Borrowed and not repaid = stolen.“

Isn’t the money paid out by many social security plans a combination investment proceeds and a pass-through of current workers’ contributions? So where current workers pay for current retirees does that also “= stolen”? (As in “stolen” from current workers to pay current retirees.)


How is Social Security Funded?

“Social Security is not a savings plan. What you pay into the system does not go into an account for your retirement. Workers in each generation finance Social Security payments for their retired elders and other beneficiaries. Down the road, their benefits will be paid for in turn by younger workers.“

 
Last edited:
/ Tractors and (upcoming) tariffs? #340  
As applicable as it is to farming, “you reap what you sow” applies in all life’s decisions. Unfortunately those decisions affect everyone, even those who had some common sense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Marketplace Items

2018 CATERPILLAR 259D SKID STEER (A60429)
2018 CATERPILLAR...
2011 MULTIQUIP LIGHT PLANT/ FUEL TANK TRAILER (A58214)
2011 MULTIQUIP...
CATERPILLAR SSL PR118M HYD POWER RAKE (A60429)
CATERPILLAR SSL...
2007 GENIE Z60/34 TELESCOPIC BOOM LIFT (A60429)
2007 GENIE Z60/34...
30 INCH TOOTHLESS BUCKET FOR MINI EXCAVATOR (A58214)
30 INCH TOOTHLESS...
RoadTec RP190 (A61307)
RoadTec RP190 (A61307)
 
Top