Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[hoozie]

For how long? 1 GW for 15 minutes or 1 GW for 8 hours?

This evening is 6GW for ~6 hours so far.

 

[Redbug]

An interesting article...

When Winter Storm Fern swept across much of the United States in mid-January 2026—bringing snow, ice, and sustained sub-zero temperatures from Texas to New England—millions of Americans braced for power outages.

Coal plants responded exactly as they are designed to do: steadily, predictably, and at scale. In the Midcontinent Independent System Operator (MISO) region, coal supplied as much as 40% of electricity during peak hours.
Wind generation declined as turbines iced over or were curtailed for safety. Solar output fell sharply as panels were covered by snow and daylight hours shortened. Hydropower faced limitations from frozen waterways and constrained inflows.

Winter Storm Fern Proved Coal Is Still the Power Grid’s Reliable Backbone

When Winter Storm Fern swept across much of the United States in mid-January 2026—bringing snow, ice, and sustained sub-zero temperatures from Texas to New England—millions of Americans br

www.realclearwire.com

 

[Hay Dude]

An interesting article...

When Winter Storm Fern swept across much of the United States in mid-January 2026—bringing snow, ice, and sustained sub-zero temperatures from Texas to New England—millions of Americans braced for power outages.

Coal plants responded exactly as they are designed to do: steadily, predictably, and at scale. In the Midcontinent Independent System Operator (MISO) region, coal supplied as much as 40% of electricity during peak hours.
Wind generation declined as turbines iced over or were curtailed for safety. Solar output fell sharply as panels were covered by snow and daylight hours shortened. Hydropower faced limitations from frozen waterways and constrained inflows.

Winter Storm Fern Proved Coal Is Still the Power Grid’s Reliable Backbone

When Winter Storm Fern swept across much of the United States in mid-January 2026—bringing snow, ice, and sustained sub-zero temperatures from Texas to New England—millions of Americans br

www.realclearwire.com

Oh come on….We all know solar power is the answer to all electric power generation needs.
Get rid of all coal & gas NOW.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

I have never talked about climate science.

"Climate Science", must be a hoax! Because they can't even predict the weather with consistent accuracy.

 

[mark in portugal]

All science is a hoax, what did it ever prove?
Those scientists are all unelected atheists. Many are not even American.
For all we know, the sun goes around the earth and outer space consists of phlogiston.
Who knows? Smoking might be good for you.
ALcohol too. Don't believe those so called "doctors" who want to ruin your fun. They're all being paid by teetotalers.

 

[sd455dan]

OK, but it’s still an “if” and it’s still “plans”. Nothing of great significance has been built or is producing the solar panels YET.

I have always been a “I see better than I read” type of person.

So far, most of the existing green energy infrastructure was made overseas. This does little to help American energy workers, except assist them in losing jobs.
It’s also bad for national security because we don’t have control over parts & technology to build or maintain them.

I hope they get it done, Last year scaling storage battery production was majorly being ramped up and the semi production line. Now switching the Fremont plant over to robots. They did drop the ball on the solar roofs but have

Already started production and delivery of the Buffalo made 420 watt panels

Again new solar panel plants employing Americans in America utilizing American tech is a Good thing.

Solar sux on rainy days, that said today was pretty sunny and my system made over 70 KWH of power today. Still not enough to even zero the power bill.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Keep an eye out for used panels. They lose capacity over time, so get replaced. I just saw a place in Eugene that is selling hundreds of used 3x5 panels for $30 each. They were originally 270 watt panels and have been discontinued by the manufacturer.

BRING | Eugene OR

BRING, Eugene. 11,146 likes · 498 talking about this · 1,182 were here. Our region's go-to destination for salvaged and surplus building materials, garden supplies, tools, and more! Since 1971, we've...

www.facebook.com

 

[edgarrian]

I hope they get it done, Last year scaling storage battery production was majorly being ramped up and the semi production line. Now switching the Fremont plant over to robots. They did drop the ball on the solar roofs but have

Already started production and delivery of the Buffalo made 420 watt panels

Again new solar panel plants employing Americans in America utilizing American tech is a Good thing.

Solar sux on rainy days, that said today was pretty sunny and my system made over 70 KWH of power today. Still not enough to even zero the power bill.

That's great to see manufacturing of solar panels coming to the states. I was quoted solar for my property here in indiana about 8 years ago. It was expensive then and I recently got quotes within the last year. And its even more. I see that several countries are much cheaper on residential solar. Im pretty active on LinkedIn and even foreigners comment how expensive the states are with concern to residential solar.

The first quote I had done included a detailed breakdown of what they were charging for. It was going to be ground mounted. I was going to need a trench that was about 100ft from the panels to the house. They were charging 4500 just for the trench. It did not include the conduit or line. Just the trench. Im in excavating. I do it on the side and full time. I can rent a mini for 300 and dig the trench in an hour. So i brought this up and asked if they were charging this much for a short trench what else are they over charging on. Mind you the company is reputable out of indianapolis. The conversation didnt go well. I get you have to make money but it would appear to me that residential solar here in the area is trying to take advantage of homeowners.

So i have not pulled the trigger. I would have been a cash customer and in the end i decided to just invest as the returns on money invested are a better option over residential solar.

So im certainly not again solar. I like the idea. I just think its out of line in this area for sure. Im sure its different in other areas of the country.

 

[ponytug]

That's great to see manufacturing of solar panels coming to the states. I was quoted solar for my property here in indiana about 8 years ago. It was expensive then and I recently got quotes within the last year. And its even more. I see that several countries are much cheaper on residential solar. Im pretty active on LinkedIn and even foreigners comment how expensive the states are with concern to residential solar.

The first quote I had done included a detailed breakdown of what they were charging for. It was going to be ground mounted. I was going to need a trench that was about 100ft from the panels to the house. They were charging 4500 just for the trench. It did not include the conduit or line. Just the trench. Im in excavating. I do it on the side and full time. I can rent a mini for 300 and dig the trench in an hour. So i brought this up and asked if they were charging this much for a short trench what else are they over charging on. Mind you the company is reputable out of indianapolis. The conversation didnt go well. I get you have to make money but it would appear to me that residential solar here in the area is trying to take advantage of homeowners.

So i have not pulled the trigger. I would have been a cash customer and in the end i decided to just invest as the returns on money invested are a better option over residential solar.

So im certainly not again solar. I like the idea. I just think its out of line in this area for sure. Im sure its different in other areas of the country.

Well, it is out of line here, too, but that's not unique to solar. Many of the contractors who I ask to bid on work here give me a "cost is no object" type of bid. The better ones are reasonable and will say "don't ask me to do the trenching, as I can't get it done for less than $5k, given the costs of my employees. I suggest that you do it for me." That came up on a recent solar quote here. But I remember when we were getting married, someone pointed that there are a lot of unscrupulous folks in the wedding services business as so many customers are starry eyed one time customers, with not much opportunity for repeat business.

All the best,

Peter

 

[edgarrian]

Well, it is out of line here, too, but that's not unique to solar. Many of the contractors who I ask to bid on work here give me a "cost is no object" type of bid. The better ones are reasonable and will say "don't ask me to do the trenching, as I can't get it done for less than $5k, given the costs of my employees. I suggest that you do it for me." That came up on a recent solar quote here. But I remember when we were getting married, someone pointed that there are a lot of unscrupulous folks in the wedding services business as so many customers are starry eyed one time customers, with not much opportunity for repeat business.

All the best,

Peter

Thats the truth. Funny I negotiated the price of our wedding. My wife was in disbelief that I would even consider doing it. That was 13 years ago. Nothing is off limits in my eyes. But your right. The one time customer on her wedding day. will pay anything if she (loves it)!! Not me.

I dont buy the whole i can't get the trenching done for less than 5k. Lets be honest. Its a quick way to make 4 thousand dollars. Dont get me wrong. When i bid jobs. Im bidding to make money. But i find solar contractors to be just as bad or worst than those in the wedding industry.

 

[ponytug]

Just to be fair to the contractor in question: The "I can't get it done for $5k" comment was in the context of please don't ask me to do the trenching, please do it yourself and save yourself the money. I appreciated the candor.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Phil Timmons]

That's great to see manufacturing of solar panels coming to the states. I was quoted solar for my property here in indiana about 8 years ago. It was expensive then and I recently got quotes within the last year. And its even more. I see that several countries are much cheaper on residential solar. Im pretty active on LinkedIn and even foreigners comment how expensive the states are with concern to residential solar.

The first quote I had done included a detailed breakdown of what they were charging for. It was going to be ground mounted. I was going to need a trench that was about 100ft from the panels to the house. They were charging 4500 just for the trench. It did not include the conduit or line. Just the trench. Im in excavating. I do it on the side and full time. I can rent a mini for 300 and dig the trench in an hour. So i brought this up and asked if they were charging this much for a short trench what else are they over charging on. Mind you the company is reputable out of indianapolis. The conversation didnt go well. I get you have to make money but it would appear to me that residential solar here in the area is trying to take advantage of homeowners.

So i have not pulled the trigger. I would have been a cash customer and in the end i decided to just invest as the returns on money invested are a better option over residential solar.

So im certainly not again solar. I like the idea. I just think its out of line in this area for sure. Im sure its different in other areas of the country.

Price is generally compared on a $ per DC Watt basis.

Sort of like Gasoline at a $ per Gallon basis.

Current (US, Q1, 2026) Numbers you are looking for:
(full install and turn-key)

-----------------------------------
$1 per Watt. Good Numbers = quick ROI

$2 per Watt. Not bad, especially if doing other improvements or work (e.g., New Electric Service, and/or Carport or Pergola, and/or EV plugs or chargers tossed in).

$3 per Watt. Keep shopping.
-----------------------------------

Keep it OFF THE ROOF, and it can keep costs down.

 

[edgarrian]

Price is generally compared on a $ per DC Watt basis.

Sort of like Gasoline at a $ per Gallon basis.

Current (US, Q1, 2026) Numbers you are looking for:
(full install and turn-key)

-----------------------------------
$1 per Watt. Good Numbers = quick ROI

$2 per Watt. Not bad, especially if doing other improvements or work (e.g., New Electric Service, and/or Carport or Pergola, and/or EV plugs or chargers tossed in).

$3 per Watt. Keep shopping.
-----------------------------------

Keep it OFF THE ROOF, and it can keep costs down.

unfortunately ground mounted doesn't mean cheap. Thats what mine was going to be We were looking at around 35-40k 8 years ago. That number has almost doubled for solar installation. The payback now is terrible.

 

[Phil Timmons]

unfortunately ground mounted doesn't mean cheap. Thats what mine was going to be We were looking at around 35-40k 8 years ago. That number has almost doubled for solar installation. The payback now is terrible.

Gasoline (or Ground Mount, or whatever) does not mean cheap.

This is a Unit Price thing.

$1 per gallon Gasoline is Cheap, right?
$5 per gallon Gasoline is not Cheap.

Unit Prices US Solar PV: (now, US Q1, 2026)
$1 per Watt = Cheap.
$2 per Watt = Ok (IF) you get some bonus or really want something.
$3 per Watt = Keep shopping.

But, yes, in the US -- We can do Ground Mount for less than a roof.

Solar PV is not priced by the job nor the "number of panels." That is the terms sleazy sales, and target smucks use.

It is priced by Units of Watts.

So you are saying $35K to $40K? . . . . for HOW MANY DC Watts?

 

[sd455dan]

That's great to see manufacturing of solar panels coming to the states. I was quoted solar for my property here in indiana about 8 years ago. It was expensive then and I recently got quotes within the last year. And its even more. I see that several countries are much cheaper on residential solar. Im pretty active on LinkedIn and even foreigners comment how expensive the states are with concern to residential solar.

The first quote I had done included a detailed breakdown of what they were charging for. It was going to be ground mounted. I was going to need a trench that was about 100ft from the panels to the house. They were charging 4500 just for the trench. It did not include the conduit or line. Just the trench. Im in excavating. I do it on the side and full time. I can rent a mini for 300 and dig the trench in an hour. So i brought this up and asked if they were charging this much for a short trench what else are they over charging on. Mind you the company is reputable out of indianapolis. The conversation didnt go well. I get you have to make money but it would appear to me that residential solar here in the area is trying to take advantage of homeowners.

So i have not pulled the trigger. I would have been a cash customer and in the end i decided to just invest as the returns on money invested are a better option over residential solar.

So im certainly not again solar. I like the idea. I just think its out of line in this area for sure. Im sure its different in other areas of the country.

Wow, if ever there was a proven reason for buying a cheap TLB that's one I will use . At his quoted price per foot I easily paid for my Ford 550 and improvements on just the 600 feet of Solar wire trench alone.

I bought an all inclusive system from Signature Solar of EG4 equipment in 2024 to get a main system up and running, I did almost all of the install myself and had sons help me 2 days putting the panels and tiltable array up. After crash course learning got hooked on Solar and being able to run off grid. Started looking for panel deals and Was able to buy 54 more 390 watt tier 1 bifacials for $3300 plus shipping, I still have 18 more panels to install. So ~24KW installed now.

I did have the Power Company show up after 8 months due to back feeding a small amount through the smart meter so had to get a state inspection.

After seeing what some installers quoted on forums, and being DIY'er if possible it has turned into a rewarding hobby that also has real advantages if the grid were ever to go down for an extended time.
If it stays sunny the system will soon be making enough extra to drive the EV on photons. Overcast fall and winter the solar can drop to under 8% of rated output. If we lived where grid power was expensive and sunnier the system would pay for itself in a "reasonable" amount of time, more of an expensive hobby and back up if SHTF.

 

[edgarrian]

Gasoline (or Ground Mount, or whatever) does not mean cheap.

This is a Unit Price thing.

$1 per gallon Gasoline is Cheap, right?
$5 per gallon Gasoline is not Cheap.

Unit Prices US Solar PV: (now, US Q1, 2026)
$1 per Watt = Cheap.
$2 per Watt = Ok (IF) you get some bonus or really want something.
$3 per Watt = Keep shopping.

But, yes, in the US -- We can do Ground Mount for less than a roof.

Solar PV is not priced by the job nor the "number of panels." That is the terms sleazy sales, and target smucks use.

It is priced by Units of Watts.

So you are saying $35K to $40K? . . . . for HOW MANY DC Watts?

KW was what they used. It wasn't by how many panels or any of that. I find it funny that people think we are cheap as you are suggesting. Its far from it and most foreigners know that the US is extremely expensive for residential solar. You won't get me to believe the US is cheap. Its not. Residential solar in the states is expensive. In my personal opinion residential solar here in the states. IS sleezy

 

[edgarrian]

Wow, if ever there was a proven reason for buying a cheap TLB that's one I will use . At his quoted price per foot I easily paid for my Ford 550 and improvements on just the 600 feet of Solar wire trench alone.

I bought an all inclusive system from Signature Solar of EG4 equipment in 2024 to get a main system up and running, I did almost all of the install myself and had sons help me 2 days putting the panels and tiltable array up. After crash course learning got hooked on Solar and being able to run off grid. Started looking for panel deals and Was able to buy 54 more 390 watt tier 1 bifacials for $3300 plus shipping, I still have 18 more panels to install. So ~24KW installed now.

I did have the Power Company show up after 8 months due to back feeding a small amount through the smart meter so had to get a state inspection.

After seeing what some installers quoted on forums, and being DIY'er if possible it has turned into a rewarding hobby that also has real advantages if the grid were ever to go down for an extended time.
If it stays sunny the system will soon be making enough extra to drive the EV on photons. Overcast fall and winter the solar can drop to under 8% of rated output. If we lived where grid power was expensive and sunnier the system would pay for itself in a "reasonable" amount of time, more of an expensive hobby and back up if SHTF.

Absolutely. I dont like messing with electric but i think i could install panels and do the trench but id be lost on how to hook it up to the house. So yea i guess thats where it can be cheaper. but in other a lot of other countries. Install is still much cheaper than here.

 

[Phil Timmons]

KW was what they used. It wasn't by how many panels or any of that. I find it funny that people think we are cheap as you are suggesting. Its far from it and most foreigners know that the US is extremely expensive for residential solar. You won't get me to believe the US is cheap. Its not. Residential solar in the states is expensive. In my personal opinion residential solar here in the states. IS sleezy

Sorry, still missing part of this?

So in KW for $35K or $40K . . . do you recall the DC KW rating?

Really, THIS is the reference price.

I am not trying to get you to believe ANYTHING. Not a prophet, nor preacher, and barely a teacher.

btw, agree on the sleazy. Most everything in the US Energy Business is sleazy. From the Top Down. Oil, Coal, and Nukes tend to be the worse.

 

[Phil Timmons]

I bought an all inclusive system from Signature Solar of EG4 equipment in 2024 to get a main system up and running . . .

We do bidness with them, too. About an hour from us. Was out there in December after Christmas, loading up trailers by the pallet, and inverters by the truckload for an install we were still hooking up on New Years Eve (to beat the Tax Credit expire). Good folks.

 

[ponytug]

@Phil Timmons just for reference for here, 16kW ground mount, low end quote was $65k three years ago. That's close to double to triple roof mounted solar in this area.

Roof PV is plug and play at the planning offices. Ground mounts all require signoff from multiple engineers, which increases the price, and unless you are a PE and can sign your own plans.

Very much "YMMV"!

All the best,

Peter