3-Point Hitch TC30, R4 Tires, and 3pt Hitch Arms - Not Enough Room!!

[strez]

Hello. Thought I'd post about an annoyance of mine - perhaps somebody out there has some good ideas that will help me out.

Subject says it all. I have a TC30 with R4 Industrial tires mounted. When I have an implement attached to the 3-pt arms (box blade, rear blade, et al) I cannot for the life of me get the arms set in such a way that it doesn't either (a) make it impossible to hook up the implement to the arms because the arms are not spread wide enough, or (b) have the arms tight enough so that one or both of the arms do not rub one or both of the tires. Simply put, it just seems like there just isn't enough room between the inside edges of the tires to accommodate a standard sized implement.

The latest frustration for me is when I just installed a new set of tire chains on the R4's . . . needless to say this only compounded the problem and the tire chains - if not aligned perfectly - hit on the 3pt hitch arms as the tire rotates. Very frustrating.

I'm thinking one of three things - either (a) rotate the hitch pins on my implements to the _inside_ of their current mounting position to gain more room (thus allowing the arms to be about 3" more towards the midline of the tractor on each side), (b) get a set of wheel spacers to push the tires out an inch or so on each side (anyone know of a manufacturer of wheel spacers for the TC30?), or (c) get a set of quick-hitch connects for the arms to eliminate the need to spread the arms very wide when hooking up the implement (thus allowing the arms to be a bit more tighter towards the midline of the tractor and not need to spread apart very wide to attach the implement).

Of course - other ideas/suggestions are also welcomed . . . let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[JC-jetro]

Hello. Thought I'd post about an annoyance of mine - perhaps somebody out there has some good ideas that will help me out.

Subject says it all. I have a TC30 with R4 Industrial tires mounted. When I have an implement attached to the 3-pt arms (box blade, rear blade, et al) I cannot for the life of me get the arms set in such a way that it doesn't either (a) make it impossible to hook up the implement to the arms because the arms are not spread wide enough, or (b) have the arms tight enough so that one or both of the arms do not rub one or both of the tires. Simply put, it just seems like there just isn't enough room between the inside edges of the tires to accommodate a standard sized implement.

The latest frustration for me is when I just installed a new set of tire chains on the R4's . . . needless to say this only compounded the problem and the tire chains - if not aligned perfectly - hit on the 3pt hitch arms as the tire rotates. Very frustrating.

I'm thinking one of three things - either (a) rotate the hitch pins on my implements to the _inside_ of their current mounting position to gain more room (thus allowing the arms to be about 3" more towards the midline of the tractor on each side), (b) get a set of wheel spacers to push the tires out an inch or so on each side (anyone know of a manufacturer of wheel spacers for the TC30?), or (c) get a set of quick-hitch connects for the arms to eliminate the need to spread the arms very wide when hooking up the implement (thus allowing the arms to be a bit more tighter towards the midline of the tractor and not need to spread apart very wide to attach the implement).

Of course - other ideas/suggestions are also welcomed . . . let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

I know for sure on Ag tires you can mount them several different ways to increase or reduce width of tires based on you need. It seems to me you may be able to rotate the rims kind of inside out to get more width. I'm sure someone with industrial tire will chime in soon for an advise. Stay tuned. Have you checked the owner's manual yet. On my 1700 there is a page dedicated on many iteration on how to mount the rims to get desired width.

JC,

 

[hockeyhead]

Wow, I don't have any such problems, I also have a TC-30 with R4's, I run a
6'RFM, 5' rotary, 5' tiller, 5' BB, 6' grader blade, PHD, without any problems with width or hooking up the arms. On some things I have made the pins are 27" apart copying the impliments that I'd purchased. All impliments I have are cat 1, are you trying to run something larger? I'll go measure the distance between the rear tires at the 3pt arms and get back to you.

 

[hockeyhead]

I have 31" inbetween the rear tires and 2.5 to 3" from the 3pt arms to the tires. This is with the back blade on it, The turnbuckles are adjusted for an1/2" of movement each way. R4's are not adjustable for width (per the manual) and should be dish out. If somehow you ended up dish in you would lose 2" per side. hope this helps some.

 

[RickB]

There should be, in fact there is, sufficient clearance between the inside of the R-4's and the draft links when attached to implements with Cat I dimensions. The stabilizers will keep the draft links away from the tires when adjusted properly. If you are not using implements with category I dimensions, you have an implement problem, not a tractor problem. Tire chains certainly can cause problems.

 

[strez]

I have 31" inbetween the rear tires and 2.5 to 3" from the 3pt arms to the tires. This is with the back blade on it, The turnbuckles are adjusted for an1/2" of movement each way. R4's are not adjustable for width (per the manual) and should be dish out. If somehow you ended up dish in you would lose 2" per side. hope this helps some.

Thanks for the reply.

My measurements are as follows:
~29.5" in between the two rear tires - not the 31" you measured
~34" from hitch pin to hitch pin (at the widest point of course)
~27" from the base of one hitch pin to the base of the other (basically the width of the implement - exclusive of the hitch pins)
~1" between the 3pt arms and each tire with back blade mounted - with very little slack at all on each of the turnbuckles.

As an aside - the tires are 15x19.5.

Re the dish out vs dish in - not sure which way mine are mounted as I am unfamiliar with the terminology - but here goes an explanation of how they are mounted on my tractor. In the middle of the rim where the wheel bolts to the hub is a piece of dished metal that looks like a pie pan. On my tractor - if that were indeed a pie pan - the pie would be on the outside of the wheel. In other words, the bottom of the pie pan is facing the inside. Make sense? If so - is this dish in or out?

 

[strez]

There should be, in fact there is, sufficient clearance between the inside of the R-4's and the draft links when attached to implements with Cat I dimensions. The stabilizers will keep the draft links away from the tires when adjusted properly. If you are not using implements with category I dimensions, you have an implement problem, not a tractor problem. Tire chains certainly can cause problems.

I know there should be - and unfortunately in my case there isn't. Implement dimensions and tractor measurements are as described in post above. I'm pretty sure I have Cat 1 implements (7/8" diameter hitch pins for the lift arms, about 27" from the base of one hitch pin to the other).

Re the stabilizers - here's the process I follow. First I hook up the implement on level ground, and lift it up off of the ground. Next I center the implement -this never results in more than 1" of space max between the lift arm and the tire on each side - even with the lift arms squeezed as tightly together as possible against the base of the hitch pins. Lastly, I loosely tighten each of the turnbuckles to reduce the left/right sway of the implement to keep it centered.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[hockeyhead]

I believe I have the same rim 15x19.5. If I stand on the outside of the rear tire, looking at the wheel lugs I have about 8.5" from the wheel lug mounting surface to the outboard edge of the rim, measuring depth. If I stand inbetween the hitch arm and measure the inside depth of the rim I have 6.5". This is a dished out condition meaning that the rim offsets the centerline of the tire 1" outboard from the mounting hub surface. If this condition is reversed on your machine that would explain the conditions and numbers you supplied. If not I'm clueless, but there is a lot more help here, as it's a quiet day because of the Holiday,

 

[RickB]

Simplest way to resolve this is for you to post whether your valve stems are towards the center of the tractor, or are visible on the outside face of the rim. Hockeyhead or someone else with this tractor/wheel configuration can tell us whether yours are mounted correctly. I'll try to remember to look today at work.

 

[strez]

Simplest way to resolve this is for you to post whether your valve stems are towards the center of the tractor, or are visible on the outside face of the rim. Hockeyhead or someone else with this tractor/wheel configuration can tell us whether yours are mounted correctly. I'll try to remember to look today at work.

My valve stems are pointed out and visible on the outside of the rim.

 

[Reg]

For max spread;
a) Pie plates OUT, pie on the outside.
b) valve stems generally OUT, but what really matters is that the rim off sets the tire outwards.
c) Rim mounted to pie plate on outside of the mounting lugs, the mounting lugs are usually part of the inner pie plate.

The difference of an inch and a half that your's is less than someone else's suggests c) above.

Owners' manuals usually detail all this, if you don't have one you MIGHT be able to download a .pdf copy from NH (guessing).

 

[strez]

Owners' manuals usually detail all this

Here's an interesting observation . . . my owner's manual specifies - for R4 tires - that the wheel spacing, measured from the center of one rear tire to the other should be 46.6". Mine measures 44.5". This 2" diffference would make all of the difference in the world if I could find out where it is off . . .

One more datapoint . . .

Measurement from wheel face (the mounting surface where the wheel mates with the hub) to rim edge on the inside of the wheel is about 7.5". Same measurement from the wheel face to the rim edge is about 6" when measured on the outside. Seems like if I swap my wheels (move the left to the right and vice versa) I'll be all set?

 

[Reg]

Here's an interesting observation . . . my owner's manual specifies - for R4 tires - that the wheel spacing, measured from the center of one rear tire to the other should be 46.6". Mine measures 44.5". This 2" diffference would make all of the difference in the world if I could find out where it is off . . .

One more datapoint . . .

Measurement from wheel face (the mounting surface where the wheel mates with the hub) to rim edge on the inside of the wheel is about 7.5". Same measurement from the wheel face to the rim edge is about 6" when measured on the outside. Seems like if I swap my wheels (move the left to the right and vice versa) I'll be all set?

Swapping wheels from side to side while keeping them "facing the same direction" will put the valve stems to the opposite side (inside vs outside) and reverse the dishing of the rim. Remember there are TWO dishings to deal with, the rim on which the tire is mounted and the inner "pie plate".

Then there is the connecting of the tire's rim to that inner pie plate, on some tractors you have a choice to mount the outer rim "inboard" of the inner dish or outboard of it. This usually depends on what sort of spacers are used, and/or if the mounts are welded tubes that the bolts go through, i.e. you may or may not be able to bolt the rim to one end of the mounting bolt tunnels or the other (choice or no choice).

CAUTION:
To swap the tires from side to side you will (obviously) need both sides up at once. OK, I won't lecture on the proper use of jacks and jackstands - just remember that these are also your braking wheels. I would push the bucket down HARD before starting. If the tires are filled they will take some MAJOR handling, I doubt that I would be able to raise a 17.5Lx24 filled tire and rim without significant help or another tractor. The risk of having one fall - and getting hurt trying to stop it, is kinda scary.

 

[strez]

Problem solved. Switched the wheels from side to side thus reversing the "dish" (still not sure if I'm "dish-in" or "dish-out" however) and gained an extra 3" or so of width between the tires. Thanks to everyone for the help/suggestions.

 

[hockeyhead]

That's great, I believe you are now set up just like mine, as my valve stems are on the inside on the rears and on the outside on the fronts. Question, did it come from the dealer this way or did things get mixed up in a tire style change or something like that?

 

[strez]

That's great, I believe you are now set up just like mine, as my valve stems are on the inside on the rears and on the outside on the fronts. Question, did it come from the dealer this way or did things get mixed up in a tire style change or something like that?

Came from the dealer that way. Go figure.

 

[Diesel-ME]

CAUTION:
To swap the tires from side to side you will (obviously) need both sides up at once. OK, I won't lecture on the proper use of jacks and jackstands - just remember that these are also your braking wheels. I would push the bucket down HARD before starting. If the tires are filled they will take some MAJOR handling, I doubt that I would be able to raise a 17.5Lx24 filled tire and rim without significant help or another tractor. The risk of having one fall - and getting hurt trying to stop it, is kinda scary.

I use two jacks - one under each side. You basically only lift enough to roll the wheel off. So you don't actually lift the tire onto or off of the hub.

If you have turf or R4 loaded tires, they are wide enough to stand up on their own. I'm not sure if ags would be as stable....?..

But good point about a falling tire - you don't want to go there!

~Paul

 

[Birdman253]

Came from the dealer that way. Go figure.

TC30's come to the dealer in a "crate." After unboxing the unit, the tires have to be mounted by the dealer. I would guess that the set-up guy just wasn't watching what he was doing, and mounted them on the wrong sides.

Glad you got your problem solved.

 

[dqdave1]

I wonder if the tires are mounted differently when you do different operations; IE; if you mount a mid- mount mower; will it fit as it is now configured? Dealer may have set it up for a mid mount mower.

 

[Reg]

I use two jacks - one under each side. You basically only lift enough to roll the wheel off. So you don't actually lift the tire onto or off of the hub.

If you have turf or R4 loaded tires, they are wide enough to stand up on their own. I'm not sure if ags would be as stable....?..

But good point about a falling tire - you don't want to go there!

~Paul

My point being that even tipping the wheel away from the studs in order to roll it away poses a significant potential fall over risk.
A 17.5Lx24 tire weighs about 200 lbs., the rim a similar amount. I have removed these, laid them down and been able to get them back up again. With another 450 or so pounds of liquid in one I am quite sure that I would not want to pull and tip one towards me to get it off the studs - not even the inch or so that the lowest studs would need to clear the rim.
Getting it back on might be a little safer... not sure, but it is moot if I decide to not take it off (-: