Snow Attachments Snow PUMP

[fitterski]

While slowly also continuing the evaluation of a hydraulic solution I noticed that pumps such as (purely for the sake of an example) the Rexroth A4VSG 71 to 180 models which could conceivably play a role, the Volume-Control is by various electrical/hydroelectrical means. I don't see any 'plain-cable' notes. Anyone know how these controls are actually manipulated? I don't think I would want anything other than plain-cable.

https://www.boschrexroth.com/ics/cat/content/assets/im/A4VSG_MainPhoto_RGB.web.jpg

https://md.boschrexroth.com/modules...1AC8A43290.borex-tc&sch=M&id=12598,20,1158534

Just had a long talk about this with our local 'blacksmith' (pro welder & machinist) who has spent his life making things including every imaginable hydraulic contraption. His advice was very short: forgetitt!! Said he "you WILL at one point notice that what was throwing the snow 100 feet 3-4 years earlier is only throwing it 60". He took a huge bite out of my enthusiasm but he man has done miracles for me as well in the past and his opinion is very hard to challenge in my book. When I built the first rig I kind of dismissed hydraulics prematurely as I was pressed for time so this time around I really wanted to give it a fair chance ..but it looks like it might just become scene-1 take-2.

 

[fitterski]

It's been -24c almost all the time lately, also had a couple of issues with the current blower, belt sprocket slipped & chewed 3/4" off the 5" belt width. Fixed that, then the electric power cylinder quit, the new one's on its way. It's been a heavy winter, already on clear-job #17 with 12 being a normal season. I'm casing a potential host truck next week (ram-1500 with 2500 springs, leaving me the option of upgrading to dana 60/70 axles). I looked at a dozen 3500 class trucks but those are always bought to do heavy work and the owners drive them into the ground before throwing them on the street. They all stickered 3-4 grand and needed another 5-6 to fix. This little 1500 is clean with low miles, a 4x4 on a 360 with auto. It isn't as big a rig as the others and can be upgraded to haul the weights. I'll know if I've got it mid-week.

 

[fitterski]

Well, that was an exercise in futility, drove 400 miles not to buy a car! The Ram's frame was literally _flaking_ off.

On with other concerns. Which GM rear axle would have full-float support and available 3:42, and can one also get 3:42 in a full-float Dana like maybe a 60 or a 70? I'm looking at what $500 might do my 2003 Jimmy's rear load-bearing ability. In the front I think I might be able to devise a blower at under 700 lbs.

 

[bigdeano]

Too bad about your long trip.

The GM 14 bolt rear axle should work for you.

Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive

 

[fitterski]

Too bad about your long trip.
The GM 14 bolt rear axle should work for you.
Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive

Thanks, no big deal, the guy could have told me though as I had specifically asked him about the frame. I actually looked at two f350's as well but am going to give up on that. Anything worth trying is over 6-8 grand and anything in my 2-3 range is totally done for.

When I bought the jd-270 blower back in '08 I brought it home on a S-10 & bent an axle when I hit a relatively small bump. That has stayed in my mind because it wasn't mine. There's also the fact that I'd pay pretty much the same price for almost any axle 250-350 being about street for as-is. The Jimmy actually came with two ratios if I remember correctly so I should be able to change the front at least to one other. The actual ratio doesn't really matter as I won't be racing it

The rear curb/gros axle weight is 1806/2700 lbs so with a 1200 lbs engine + let's say a tranny, sprockets, or a huge pump I'd be pushing my luck. Swapping out the rear would be relatively easy and it would leave me free for problem-solving in the front where the number is a more challenging 2191/2500

 

[bigdeano]

Just for information, the weight ratings on the door sticker for my '73 Chevy 3/4 ton are:

GM 14 bolt full floating rear, 5560 lbs

Dana 44 front, 3500 lbs

 

[fitterski]

Just for information, the weight ratings on the door sticker for my '73 Chevy 3/4 ton are:
GM 14 bolt full floating rear, 5560 lbs
Dana 44 front, 3500 lbs

Nice truck, you wanna sell it? :dance1:

I'm sure I'll find the right axle, all life is on hold right now just waiting for spring (another month). I also came across a couple of stateside links to outfits that actually sell kits to do solid axle swaps on the Blazer/Jimmy rigs. So far I've received no replies from either. These might be good solutions for the front, I'd just buy the bits and pieces and save on shipping by buying the axle locally. The thing is that if the rust-bucket I didn't buy is worth $2500 then my pampered and oiled-every-year Jimmy is worth $5000 but I can't even get $2000 for it. I can get a LOT done before even approximating the minimum 4-5 grand it would cost me to have a suitable and ready-for-service truck platform or 7-8 for one in the same shape as my Jimmy.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I did a little research on it. The guys doing 4bt swaps are running into this all the time. The statonary type governor is called a "RSV" while the road type governor is called a "RQV". Apparently it is a part of the injection pump and while it's separate, it's also part of the rest of the pump enough to where you have to know what you are doing to swap it out. Do a google search "RSV to RQV swap". Of course they want to go to the road governor, you want to go the other way.

Just did a bit of research for the neighbour who wants to convert an older tractor to a Cummins. A used RQV pump out of a Case tractor is $650 CAD. I'm pretty sure you could get that much on Kijiji for the RSV type injection pump that's on the motor right now.

 

[fitterski]

Just did a bit of research for the neighbour who wants to convert an older tractor to a Cummins. A used RQV pump out of a Case tractor is $650 CAD. I'm pretty sure you could get that much on Kijiji for the RSV type injection pump that's on the motor right now.

I haven't yet investigated what exactly the truck type governor does, I don't see the need for it except as a cruise-control. The only diesel CAR I ever had was a rabbit. Maybe it's just to stabilize the rpm and prevent it from hunting every time you kick the pedal on a bump (my Cat-426 does this a lot). I still haven't started the engine up, just did clearing job #17 and there's a yard of snow in the fields ..we really need spring now to reverse the morale :dance1:

 

[pmsmechanic]

I haven't yet investigated what exactly the truck type governor does, I don't see the need for it except as a cruise-control. The only diesel CAR I ever had was a rabbit. Maybe it's just to stabilize the rpm and prevent it from hunting every time you kick the pedal on a bump (my Cat-426 does this a lot). I still haven't started the engine up, just did clearing job #17 and there's a yard of snow in the fields ..we really need spring now to reverse the morale :dance1:

RQV governs the engine to where you set the throttle. In other word if you set the throttle for the engine to run at 1500 rpm the governor will attempt to keep the engine rpms at that speed within the limits of engine power. The RSV type governor which is what you have on the automotive motor governs idle and full throttle. In between is governed by the throttle pedal in the cab of the vehicle. So if your blowing snow at 1500 rpm and run into a heavier load the motor will slow down because the governor isn't reacting to the load. Conversely if the load lightens the engine rpms will increase. Whereas with an RQV style governor the injection pump will automatically adjust the throttle to try to keep the engine at 1500 rpm. Believe me you will be a lot happier with an RQV style governor.

 

[fitterski]

RQV governs the engine to where you set the throttle. In other word if you set the throttle for the engine to run at 1500 rpm the governor will attempt to keep the engine rpms at that speed within the limits of engine power. The RSV type governor which is what you have on the automotive motor governs idle and full throttle. In between is governed by the throttle pedal in the cab of the vehicle. So if your blowing snow at 1500 rpm and run into a heavier load the motor will slow down because the governor isn't reacting to the load. Conversely if the load lightens the engine rpms will increase. Whereas with an RQV style governor the injection pump will automatically adjust the throttle to try to keep the engine at 1500 rpm. Believe me you will be a lot happier with an RQV style governor.

I suppose the RSV type became necessary with the onset of digital controls as protection against the wire monkey. There are 'fuel plate' kits for raising the max rpm but they're another story. On my Perkins and the Deutz engines these stops are just screws, as they have been for almost two centuries on every form of engine. That RQV type could be useful but here again I will possibly want to use the fan itself as rpm reference. It's something to keep in mind for sure, seeing that with this Cummins I might just have enough power on tap not to have to use all of it all the time.

 

[pmsmechanic]

RSV has been around for years in stationary equipment like generators and agricultural equipment. It had nothing to do with electronics. Generators have widely varying loads as do tractors and combines.

 

[franklin2]

RSV has been around for years in stationary equipment like generators and agricultural equipment. It had nothing to do with electronics. Generators have widely varying loads as do tractors and combines.

Little push mowers have governors. When they work right, you don't even realize they are there. Only when they don't work or you don't have one is when you realize how important they are. When you hit tall grass with a push mower and hear the engine starting to "talk" a little bit under the load, that is the governor opening up the throttle automatically to keep the rpms the same. Realize with the mower sitting there not cutting grass, the engine may be turning 3600 rpm, but the carb is only open about 1/4.

 

[fitterski]

I know about them too, my Club-Cadet has it. What I didn't know about was what's on the truck engines, never having thought of low-idle and red-line as being governor related.

 

[fitterski]

It's still on, just not very active at the moment. Still working on an engine stand, still haven't started it up, everything that could go wrong is going wrong, but I gave the Jimmy to one of my sons so that dilemma is toast

Later

 

[fitterski]

Finally tried starting the engine, it loos like a rebuild, won't even fire with ether, the compression must be very low and I have nothing to test it with. Maybe I'll borrow one but it don't look good. Not to complain since this was a likely outcome given the price. Meanwhile, IF a rebuild takes up my time this summer then for the 17/18 season I'll just re-engine the existing rig and leave the truck platform swap for 2018/19. Looking at the power curves and keeping the existing 2.5:1 gearing I should be ok to operate in the 1500-2100 range without a governor. Consideing that a lot more will be on tap, I should also be able to size it all up for any subsequent mods/configs.

 

[fitterski]

Opened the engine, not to bad at all, the cylinders were dry like the engine had not run for ages but provisional measurements are in the acceptable range so a rebore may not be required (maybe some kind of refinishing and then re honing). The crosshatch is quite visible in may places, I never built an engine that didn't need a +20 or more rebore. Tomorrow I plan to look at the pistons and bearings. I still don't know why it would not fire.

Another peculiarity is that watching videos about this engine and the p7100 pump I was under the impression that the pump lock-tongue would be visible at the proper timing BTDC, in this case 12.5 degrees . So I set the engine to TDC and backed off 12.5 degrees expecting to then see lock-tongue, but never did. Finally saw it if I did NOT back the engine off at all i.e. it's visible ALSO at exactly TDC. I'm a little confused, could it be that someone had improperly installed the pump, which then resulted in realy poor performance or total inoperabilty, and ultimately engine condemnation explaining that it hadn't run for maybe a couple of years?

I'm going to get these readings validataed in a machine shop while also getting the block hot-tanked. No rebore would mean (maybe) no new pistons and no boring (around here these two alone go for about $1800cdn).

 

[fitterski]

Opened the engine... readings validataed in a machine shop while also getting the block hot-tanked. No rebore would mean (maybe) no new pistons and no boring (around here these two alone go for about $1800cdn).

View attachment 514119

here's the poorly done video that threw me

pulled crank and pistons, could shave in the bright journal polish, all pistons have small scratches on lateral sides probably from soot and carbon.


Fastest Way To Set P71 P-Pump Timing on a 5.9 Cummins 12v - YouTube

what I observed during stripping is evidence or correct assembly, the pump is pre-timed to be installed at tdc, lots of remarks on video page make this very clear.

 

[fitterski]

Re: Snow PUMP [engine #2]

Just bagged another engine, now I have one for the truck as well i.e. this one is better suited for the blower. It's a 1998 industrial 12-valve suggested earlier in the thread by several members. It used to be a fire pump in a factory, they pulled it for unknown reasons. It gives me the flywheel housing that I want as well as more power (208hp@2100). I've never seen one of these and have a dozen or so pictures with questions but first things first.

It has a custom cooling system shown on this picture, and I need to hook it up to a hose before any extended running beyond a few seconds. The reason I need extended testing is the presence of some questionable sounding coughs above idle, could be nothing, or more.



I presume the upper arrow shows the outlet and the bottom ones the inlet line. What I do NOT know is how it's made inside, it appears strange (to me) that the inlet should be right next to the outlet unless there is more elaborate internal piping.

Once I get the cooling done I'll need to set up an oil pressure indicator but only if I cannot get the provided one to work (a later topic).

While on cooling, the existing system will have to be removed because it's water based and would freeze up in winter. If I use just coiled piping instead of a radiator (or a radiator) then the jacketted approach will not be needed.

 

[aczlan]

Re: Snow PUMP [engine #2]

Just bagged another engine, now I have one for the truck as well i.e. this one is better suited for the blower. It's a 1998 industrial 12-valve suggested earlier in the thread by several members. It used to be a fire pump in a factory, they pulled it for unknown reasons. It gives me the flywheel housing that I want as well as more power (208hp@2100). I've never seen one of these and have a dozen or so pictures with questions but first things first.

It has a custom cooling system shown on this picture, and I need to hook it up to a hose before any extended running beyond a few seconds. The reason I need extended testing is the presence of some questionable sounding coughs above idle, could be nothing, or more.

View attachment 516298

I presume the upper arrow shows the outlet and the bottom ones the inlet line. What I do NOT know is how it's made inside, it appears strange (to me) that the inlet should be right next to the outlet unless there is more elaborate internal piping.

Once I get the cooling done I'll need to set up an oil pressure indicator but only if I cannot get the provided one to work (a later topic).

While on cooling, the existing system will have to be removed because it's water based and would freeze up in winter. If I use just coiled piping instead of a radiator (or a radiator) then the jacketted approach will not be needed.

That appears to be a water to water heat exchanger such as would be used on a engine on a boat so that you run your lake or river water through the small pipes that you have identified as in and out and then your coolant runs through the larger pipes. If you were to look inside the long tube there is probably a U-shaped piece of copper pipe with fins on it that goes from the inlet to the outlet and is surrounded by the engine coolant.

Aaron Z