Snow Attachments Snow PUMP

[fitterski]

Yes fitterski I got your email.You indicated that you weren't in too much of a rush so I never got to excited about it. I'll answer you back yet.

there is no rush, i just am not familiar with web-hosted forums

Your idea for a 7/16" adaptor will work but you can't put it between the adaptor plate and the engine.

You're right about that! I'm increasingly confident that if needed I can find a flywheel adapter with side mounting,

I just posted the pictures of the various bell housing arrangements so that you and others could see that there are different options when it comes to a Cummins.
There are several different automatics from through the years. Automotive manuals include a Getrag on the 1st gens. Then came the New Process 4500 and 5600. The last one is a Mercedes G-56.

Saw them thanks, don't worry I very carefully examine all such photo or drawing attachments because other than putting a 56 lincoln engine/trans into 32 chev 3-window around 1959-60 i have never really left the stock-configuration track with things automotive and as a result my knowledge in that field is pretty disgraceful.

When i first started kicking this topic around my older son said 'dad get youself a duramax but don't ever pay for the Allison that come with it because they are worthless, worthless because they never fail and there's no demand for used Allisons'. So the idea of a strong automatic will always appeal to me if it can be tamed without electrics or at least with electrics but without digital or electronics. He BTW just delivered a small plane from Lachute to Saskatoon, took him 3 days.

The adaptor/bellhousing assembly I posted in post #108 is to install an Eaton/Fuller roadranger style transmission behind a Cummins. Actually Allison automatics out of a larger truck could also be installed with the same bellhousing as it has an SAE 2 or 3 flange. I don't remember which. As soon as you have an SAE flange then anything with a corresponding flange can be made to work. Your options then are just about unlimited.

Looked at those too very carefully, does that adaptor with the side mounting provisions have a name? I saw some on industrial(?) ISX engines. Problem is that most images show only one side. Would one of those be usable for any kind of transmission in addition to being perfect for a belt drive REQUIRING a dual rear mount?

 

[fitterski]

#133 dnw64
The three story big rigs are not really in my budget but that's not the point, I don't want one. Having omne inmy yard would totally ruin the landscape. The retail market is built on hype and underperformance (what else is new). Except fopr two models that I'm keeping eyeballs on most cannot even throw wet snow to the side of the road but most cost several thousand dollars, my budget for the whole project. I can more than cook up what I need, but it takes a lot of prep and research. NOT a problem, what with all the expertise around here :dance1: What I'm after is no bigger than it needs to be, is fast, agile, turnkey, near failsafe, slipper/pajamas/coffee-in-hand while it thrown mailboxes to the next county. Like I said: NOT a problem but it does require a mean streak.

For the sake of completeness... the models I'm keeping eyes on because as a minimum I will learn something useful from them are the Schulte and since I have closely and physically examined it one engineered/made by BerVac. There's also a trio of brothers called Beaulieu in the hills behind The Bic somewhere that my and my father-ion-law visited once many years ago. These guys make abrams tanks ..they showed me a custom made reduction gearbox which alone is like 400 lbs and 5000 dollars. The two notable locally made marks are Normand and Pronovost. None of the above have answered to any emails beyond an initial 'what can we do you for?' And while most come at many thousand dollars they are all also about 2 to 3 times the weight that I was targeting when planning the existing bucket-mount rig.

 

[pmsmechanic]

When i first started kicking this topic around my older son said 'dad get youself a duramax but don't ever pay for the Allison that come with it because they are worthless, worthless because they never fail and there's no demand for used Allisons'. So the idea of a strong automatic will always appeal to me if it can be tamed without electrics or at least with electrics but without digital or electronics. He BTW just delivered a small plane from Lachute to Saskatoon, took him 3 days.

I wonder if there is a manual valve body available for an Allison 1000. Probably not because they have all kinds of stuff going on inside that'a controlled by the computer. The Allisons I was talking about with an SAE bolt pattern are from highway tractors. Saskatoon is about 6 hours from where I live.

Looked at those too very carefully, does that adaptor with the side mounting provisions have a name? I saw some on industrial(?) ISX engines. Problem is that most images show only one side. Would one of those be usable for any kind of transmission in addition to being perfect for a belt drive REQUIRING a dual rear mount?

Those adaptors come out of truck like a single axle Freightliner or equivalent. They are readily available on eBay. I paid $600 CAD for the whole setup in post #108. I don't know what they are called. The same adaptor is available for just about any engine as it's a common mounting method in larger trucks. Start looking around for a truck wrecker in your area. I'm sure they either have one ar can get one.

They are available for a cummins with a starter mount on either side and also higher or lower on the block. Just edited to add that if you see a picture of one with a mount provision on one side, there will also be a mount on the other side.

One other thing I've been thinking about is that you are going to run into issues yet with the governor. Basically automotive diesel injection pumps only govern idle and top speed. In between is governed either by the foot feed (throttle pedal) or the cruise control. So if you want the motor to stay at the same speeds under varying loads you are either going to have to install an industrial style injection pump or rig up a cruise control of some sort to control engine rpm under varying loads.

 

[franklin2]

I have heard of guys using a gas engine from a car to power small sawmills, and they used the cruise control also for a governor.

 

[fitterski]

One other thing I've been thinking about is that you are going to run into issues yet with the governor. Basically automotive diesel injection pumps only govern idle and top speed. In between is governed either by the foot feed (throttle pedal) or the cruise control. So if you want the motor to stay at the same speeds under varying loads you are either going to have to install an industrial style injection pump or rig up a cruise control of some sort to control engine rpm under varying loads.

Right now the Deutz is directly controlled by a power lever on the pump in turn driven by an electric cylinder controlled from inside the 426. I'd have to spend money and effort to install any kind of governor which i don't really need because this thing is always running 1800-2400 or stalling and I set it manually. This will change with the Cummins and I will be investigating different governing options beginning with governor on/off and etc. beyond that. The top of the food chain in this respect would be a governor flyweight gizmo right on the fan as that could serve just about all possible configuration options but i'm not there yet, and it may involve a radio transmitter or lightbeam sensor for signaling.. things to figure out in due time. Actually i could put the sensor anywhere after the last reduction where the setup might be simpler.

 

[franklin2]

You need one of those stationary engine setups the other guy was talking about. It bet it has the governed injection pump or whatever it takes to make the engine governed like a tractor. I think this is going to be very important, when the going gets tough you want that engine at full output, and when the load is not that bad you want it governed down so it doesn't over-rev.

 

[fitterski]

You need one of those stationary engine setups the other guy was talking about. It bet it has the governed injection pump or whatever it takes to make the engine governed like a tractor. I think this is going to be very important, when the going gets tough you want that engine at full output, and when the load is not that bad you want it governed down so it doesn't over-rev.

Such governors (I presume) are widely available, purely physical ones not being that hard to make from scratch. Put some flyweights on some part that spins and connect them to whatever you want to govern. Old distributors had a form of this for spark advance. There are much more sophisticated electronic/digital ones and injection pressure sensing ones, like for aftermarket diesel rpm indication ..but I don't think I'll be seeking any of those out

 

[franklin2]

Such governors (I presume) are widely available, purely physical ones not being that hard to make from scratch. Put some flyweights on some part that spins and connect them to whatever you want to govern. Old distributors had a form of this for spark advance. There are much more sophisticated electronic/digital ones and injection pressure sensing ones, like for aftermarket diesel rpm indication ..but I don't think I'll be seeking any of those out

What I was describing is built into the injection pump. People swapping diesels from tractors into cars and trucks run into this problem in reverse, they need the "road" setup, not the governed tractor or stationary/generator/pump setup. If you stumbled upon one of these cummins stationary setups it would be a slick way to do it, instead of trying to build one. You will find setting up a governor is not as simple as it seems, lots of fiddling with stuff so it will not over react and "hunt" all the time and also not be sluggish and always a day late and a dollar short and your blower is clogged with snow because of it.

Of course if your engine is way oversized, you may be able to just set the throttle and forget it.

 

[pmsmechanic]

This would be another way of adding a governor. I'm pretty sure that this is what one of the previous posters had in mind.

The external governor is above the alternator in the picture. The throttle cable is attached to the governor and then there is a rod from the governor to the carburetor.

This is on a Versatile swather with a Ford 200 engine.

 

[franklin2]

The old gravely's had a setup like that also. It takes some fiddling to get them to run right if they are messed up.

 

[aczlan]

The old gravely's had a setup like that also. It takes some fiddling to get them to run right if they are messed up.

Looks like they can be had for $140ish: Pierce Governor, Governor Assembly, GC9917R2184, 211968 | eBay (would need the grar replaced with a pulley)


Aaron Z

 

[fitterski]

What I was describing is built into the injection pump. People swapping diesels from tractors into cars and trucks run into this problem in reverse, they need the "road" setup, not the governed tractor or stationary/generator/pump setup. If you stumbled upon one of these cummins stationary setups it would be a slick way to do it, instead of trying to build one. You will find setting up a governor is not as simple as it seems, lots of fiddling with stuff so it will not over react and "hunt" all the time and also not be sluggish and always a day late and a dollar short and your blower is clogged with snow because of it. Of course if your engine is way oversized, you may be able to just set the throttle and forget it.

It so happens there WAS a tractor engine for sale not far from here but with a Ve pump and too expensive. How do they govern from inside the pump, is there an rpm signal from the injection pulses? I haven't had much to do with governors beyond trying to set up a chainsaw and that sure did hunt all over the place I know the term is sometimes used loosely for 'limited to' which is not the same meaning at all.

 

[fitterski]

Looks like they can be had for $140ish: Pierce Governor, Governor Assembly, GC9917R2184, 211968 | eBay (would need the grar replaced with a pulley)Aaron Z

Buying something like that and hacking it to make-work would for sure be a LOT cheaper and faster than doing it from scratch. I vaguely remember seeing simpler ones but this and the linked ebay one look not bad at all as far as I can tell. I'm certainly gonna keep a file open on them.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Fitterski just look on you tube for a video on overhauling an injection pump. You'll see how the governor works.

 

[franklin2]

I did a little research on it. The guys doing 4bt swaps are running into this all the time. The statonary type governor is called a "RSV" while the road type governor is called a "RQV". Apparently it is a part of the injection pump and while it's separate, it's also part of the rest of the pump enough to where you have to know what you are doing to swap it out. Do a google search "RSV to RQV swap". Of course they want to go to the road governor, you want to go the other way.

 

[aczlan]

I did a little research on it. The guys doing 4bt swaps are running into this all the time. The statonary type governor is called a "RSV" while the road type governor is called a "RQV". Apparently it is a part of the injection pump and while it's separate, it's also part of the rest of the pump enough to where you have to know what you are doing to swap it out. Do a google search "RSV to RQV swap". Of course they want to go to the road governor, you want to go the other way.

If you go to a site that deals in swapping in Cummins engines, but I think there's one that deals specifically with 4bts for example, you can post a wanted ad and see if anybody is interested in selling or swapping their governor when they're swapping a stationary engine into a road vehicle.

Aaron Z

 

[pmsmechanic]

I was browsing around the internet and saw this picture. The engine a Deutz but I wanted to show the clutch assembly on it. This clutch attachment fits onto any same sized SAE 2 or 3 bell housing pattern. So this could potentially fit onto the bell housing that is pictured in post #108. Notice also that the Deutz bell housing has side mounting bolts holes similar to the Cummins bell housing.

These are a twin disc clutch setup that is an over centering type. There are no springs to hold the discs engaged. Search for a "Rockford" or a "Twin Disc" clutch. If you decide to install a clutch on your Cummins this would be one way to do it. I have seen them in belt applications but I don't know if it would be strong enough for what you want to do.

 

[fitterski]

View attachment 500026

I was browsing around the internet and saw this picture. The engine a Deutz but I wanted to show the clutch assembly on it. This clutch attachment fits onto any same sized SAE 2 or 3 bell housing pattern. So this could potentially fit onto the bell housing that is pictured in post #108. Notice also that the Deutz bell housing has side mounting bolts holes similar to the Cummins bell housing.

These are a twin disc clutch setup that is an over centering type. There are no springs to hold the discs engaged. Search for a "Rockford" or a "Twin Disc" clutch. If you decide to install a clutch on your Cummins this would be one way to do it. I have seen them in belt applications but I don't know if it would be strong enough for what you want to do.

As I said my knowledge of engine-adapters is a subzero abyss even on the kelvin scale :laughing: I am slowly learning however, for example these flywheel plates are called "flywheel-housings", and with that covered if I read you right then I might even already have exactly what I would need in such a scenario. It's something I'll have to clarify in due time. Meanwhile I found out that the part # for a housing like the one in your #108 is probably 3925223.

Here a few pix including one I just took and some from 2008 of the side-mounting deutz flywheel housing



Meanwhile I've turned my 6bt with the starter and heard no catastrophic noises. It'll take me another week and a half to have the stand ready for the first a start attempt.

 

[fitterski]

While slowly also continuing the evaluation of a hydraulic solution I noticed that pumps such as (purely for the sake of an example) the Rexroth A4VSG 71 to 180 models which could conceivably play a role, the Volume-Control is by various electrical/hydroelectrical means. I don't see any 'plain-cable' notes. Anyone know how these controls are actually manipulated? I don't think I would want anything other than plain-cable.

https://www.boschrexroth.com/ics/cat/content/assets/im/A4VSG_MainPhoto_RGB.web.jpg

https://md.boschrexroth.com/modules...1AC8A43290.borex-tc&sch=M&id=12598,20,1158534

 

[fitterski]

I did a little research on it. The guys doing 4bt swaps are running into this all the time. The statonary type governor is called a "RSV" while the road type governor is called a "RQV". Apparently it is a part of the injection pump and while it's separate, it's also part of the rest of the pump enough to where you have to know what you are doing to swap it out. Do a google search "RSV to RQV swap". Of course they want to go to the road governor, you want to go the other way.

Me too, I stumbled on this youtube video about the 'governor' in the stock '94 dodge. I never knew they had one, is this something particular to diesels or what? To me a governor always meant to set the speed you want (IF you wanna go that route) and the engine will then maintain so long as it doesn't get stalled out by the load. So anyway my need would be for the classical governor that I had always known about.