Small pole barn advice

[gersus]

40 yards of concrete?!

 

[mopardude318]

yea. it turned into a 30x30. my footings were pretty large, and the foundation walls took a lot of concrete.

 

[ultrarunner]

Don't feel bad... my brother used the loader to prepare for a slab... he got carried away and when he formed it all up found he was way deeper than needed... 30 x 40 slab that now is a basketball court for the kids... but later will be a barn...

Anyway... the slab ended up being a minimum of 10" thick with one spot 13"

 

[mopardude318]

 

[Redlands Okie]

Orange compactor, orange shirts all to match that orange tractor. That’s pretty dedicated
Looks like a lot of hard work turning out nice. Congrats.

 

[EddieWalker]

Those forms and rebar look beautiful, but where are the chairs supporting the rebar? Nothing bothers me more then seeing concrete being poured and there isn't anything supporting the rebar so it remains in the middle of the concrete. Technically, the bottom 1/3 is the ideal location, but what really matters is that there is concrete all the way around the rebar and that it's not resting on the dirt below the pad.

Biggest lie you will hear when pouring concrete is that they lift it while they spread the concrete. Some will even do this for a few minutes when the pour begins, but nobody does it for the entire pour!!!! And then they are walking on the rebar, pushing it back down again, along with the weight of the concrete coming out of the truck that's pushing it back down too.

Guys working concrete have one goal, to get it smooth and flat. That takes everything they have to accomplish. Posing for pics and pretending to lift the rebar doesn't even enter their minds once the job gets going!!!!

 

[fried1765]

yea. it turned into a 30x30. my footings were pretty large, and the foundation walls took a lot of concrete.

The entire project certainly looks to be much more work than was necessary.
Obviously there was no need to remove material and replace with gravel.
Did you consider using concrete blocks for the stub walls?
I do prefer poured concrete, but for this application, blocks, on top of spread footings, would likely have been easier, and cheaper.
Did you use re-bar chairs in your floor?

 

[fried1765]

Those forms and rebar look beautiful, but where are the chairs supporting the rebar? Nothing bothers me more then seeing concrete being poured and there isn't anything supporting the rebar so it remains in the middle of the concrete. Technically, the bottom 1/3 is the ideal location, but what really matters is that there is concrete all the way around the rebar and that it's not resting on the dirt below the pad.

Biggest lie you will hear when pouring concrete is that they lift it while they spread the concrete. Some will even do this for a few minutes when the pour begins, but nobody does it for the entire pour!!!! And then they are walking on the rebar, pushing it back down again, along with the weight of the concrete coming out of the truck that's pushing it back down too.

Guys working concrete have one goal, to get it smooth and flat. That takes everything they have to accomplish. Posing for pics and pretending to lift the rebar doesn't even enter their minds once the job gets going!!!!

I would bet that the "reinforcing" in over 90% of all floors poured, is sitting on the dirt, at the bottom of the concrete, be it mesh, or re-bars.

 

[EddieWalker]

I would bet that the "reinforcing" in over 90% of all floors poured, is sitting on the dirt, at the bottom of the concrete, be it mesh, or re-bars.

I remodel homes for a living and most of the time I find the rebar in the middle of the slab when I'm moving drain lines around. If it's wire mesh, it's always on the bottom. I have never found mesh in the middle of a pad!! The few times where I've found it under the slab, laying on the dirt, there is issues with the pad. But in those house, I also have a lot of other issues with framing and usually everything else. Contractors that save twenty bucks on chairs will do the same every chance they get.

From what I've seen so far in the pics, it looks like he has a good crew, I just hate not seeing the chairs in the pictures. I can't figure out why they wouldn't put them in while tying the rebar?

 

[mopardude318]

Orange compactor, orange shirts all to match that orange tractor. That痴 pretty dedicated
Looks like a lot of hard work turning out nice. Congrats.

Thanks. I am happy how it is coming out!

Those forms and rebar look beautiful, but where are the chairs supporting the rebar? Nothing bothers me more then seeing concrete being poured and there isn't anything supporting the rebar so it remains in the middle of the concrete. Technically, the bottom 1/3 is the ideal location, but what really matters is that there is concrete all the way around the rebar and that it's not resting on the dirt below the pad.

Thanks. I took those pics before they were finished. Rebar wasn't all the way tied off yet. I didn't use those fancy rebar chairs, but I did use some recycled bricks I had lying around, which gives the same effect. I was out there the helping the whole time as they were forming and pouring. Rest assured, the rebar isn't just resting on the ground!

The entire project certainly looks to be much more work than was necessary.
Obviously there was no need to remove material and replace with gravel.
Did you consider using concrete blocks for the stub walls?
I do prefer poured concrete, but for this application, blocks, on top of spread footings, would likely have been easier, and cheaper.
Did you use re-bar chairs in your floor?

It certainly was more work than necessary! I won't dig like that again! I did consider concrete blocks, but I wanted one solid pour, so thats what I did.

 

[mopardude318]

So I had to rent a pump, of course. And the concrete company stacked the first 3 trucks on me when I said I needed 30 minutes between each truck. No big deal, we handled it. 4 trucks total though.

 

[mopardude318]

 

[LD1]

Rebar placement is a hot topic for many, and many different opinions.

Separating the opinions from the facts....
1. You need at least 1" of concrete all around the rebar for corrosion. Protection.
2. Rebar ads tensil strength to the slab. Thus most times it is placed in the tension sone of the concrete.

So most slabs, the bottom is in tension. For the average 6"-8" pour....simply an inch or tad more is ideal. Closer to the bottom (but still an inch minimum) is the strongest in terms of adding strength.

Rebar right in the middle adds little to no strenght.

But in a typical garage....tension strength is not the only thing rebar does. It keeps the surfaces betewwn expansion joints /control joints level. And minimizes crack swelling.

So another like of thought that I am seeing becoming more and more common, is to place the rebar in the upper third of the concrete. This is mostly on residential type garages, patios, etc and nothing structural. With a properly compacted base, tension strength isnt critical. And placement in upper third helps keep surfaces level and cracks/joints from swelling moreso than in the bottom third.

Don't know if it's just my area, but we do have frost/freeze/thaw concerns that aren't an issue in southern states

 

[Redlands Okie]

The gravel under the slab might be more work than required but will have less issues water and settling usually. Using concrete blocks for stem wall works also, but if properly installed are quite a bit of work and still not as strong as the concrete stem walls. Seems its been done more on the commercial end of specs and should work really well for a long time to come. You will have to look at pictures before long to remind yourself of the extra work, which is much better than looking at it and wishing you had done something else.

Looks like the finish will turn out nice. Nice to see you allowed for contraction joints. I sure use to hate toting those darn hoses around. Those guys need some sliders or skies to make their job a bit easier.

 

[mopardude318]

The forms are pulled and I cleared the sides of dirt, before I backfill I have a few questions. Would it be wise to maybe apply a basement/concrete waterproofer, masonry sealer or something along those lines? I'm not sure what products are available.

After that, when I do backfill, should I use dirt or base rock/ gravel.

 

[747driver]

I would wait a few weeks. Let the concrete cure as it is still 'green' and if you by chance hit it with a piece of equipment in leveling it will break/chip off. If you don't have gutters I would put down gravel/rock to control washout and dirt splash on siding.

 

[Redlands Okie]

The forms are pulled and I cleared the sides of dirt, before I backfill I have a few questions. Would it be wise to maybe apply a basement/concrete waterproofer, masonry sealer or something along those lines? I'm not sure what products are available.

After that, when I do backfill, should I use dirt or base rock/ gravel.

Concrete sealers are available for applying over fresh concrete.
BASF product called
Master cure 14% is for applying over newly poured concrete. If you apply it to thick it can turn whitish for a while till it cures out.
Master cure 25 % or 30% if for after it cures (about a month)
Lots of products for shop floors that are even heavier duty for after it cures.

You really should find a final product so that you do not apply something that affects the final products application.

Sherwin Williams, Pittsburgh paints and others also have good products.

The more gravel in the fill next to the concrete the better. This allows the water to drain out and not be held like a sponge like normal soil does against the concrete. A french type drain pipe at the bottom of the wall or better yet a bit below it also helps when used with the gravel to get the water gone.

 

[KennyG]

Gravel 6 inches deep and 12 inches wide around my pole barn was the best thing I ever did. No worries about standing water and no weeds to trim.