Slow welding helmet response time

[MJPetersen]

My HF helmet (not the least expensive model) has both a sensitivity switch and a reaction time switch. I have had it for 6 months and have not had any problems with it and no "gravel eyes." They have several different models and maybe only those who bought the lowest models are having problems. I am quite satisfied with mine.

Mike

 

[Dargo]

Also use a Miller Big Window Elite. As noted, excellent viewing area and quality product. HIGHLY recommended. Batteries are easy to find (Radio Shack) and easy to replace. Very comfortable as well.

I will say that I do generally use this particular hood when I MIG or TIG. Maybe I should quit wearing my cheater (reading) glasses under the hood because my only issue has been sticking my big noggin too close to my work and going through the plastic outer protective lenses in short order. On larger gauge material or stick welding I don't seem to want to stick my nose on my work. But, like the batteries, I think a 5 pack of the outer lens covers are under five bucks.

I probably should disclose that one of my siblings, actually one of my younger sisters, is a professional welder and, due to using cheap AD hoods, she had to have surgeries on both eyes. I don't know exactly what the surgeries were, but she has "Terminator" eyes now. At the right angle, her eyes now reflect light back at you and it looks really freaky. She didn't know that she was getting flashed constantly because of her cheap hood. Needless to say, this is why I'm extremely adamant about warning people against ruining their eyesight just to try to save $100. I keep saying $100 more because that is all it cost her over her HF piece of trash to get a decent AD hood. She has now gotten a more expensive brand and model because of her personal preference. Where my hood is a M hood, hers is a Speedglas Flexview with side windows and all. Hers was more money than mine and maybe better. In a way I suppose you can say that she went with the best she could buy after already doing damage to her eyes with a cheap hood.

 

[bitternut]

I also have a Miller big window elite and I am very happy with it. I have owned a couple others before that did not work as well as my Miller. I would buy another BWE in a heartbeat.
You only get one set of eyes and it pays to take care of them. I have heard good things about a couple other brands also but have never used them.

 

[Berniep]

I was doing some welding in the cold this week and my HF auto dark helmet was experiencing slow response. I could see an initial flash before it darkened. Tried new batteries without any change. Switched to my old standard helmet to complete the job. Has anyone experienced slow response in cold temperatures or is it just time for a new one?

My miller bwe had a warning in the manual about using it in the cold.
The cold can slow down the response time due to it being an lcd.

It won't damage your eye even if it doesn't darken at all (not that you could keep wleidng with it that way) because the lens filters all uv rays all the time. You are gonna see spots but there should be no arc burn.

Someone else already mentoined about the delay setting being the amount of time after the arc goes out.

 

[tatra805]

my automatic helmet was stolen at one point and i went back to a classic helmet.

I did notice that time that i had much less sore eyes the day after welding and realized that the automatic one was basically junk.

I also do know that it took some time before pro welders started using these automatics as they were not approved health and safety wise.

Now you can buy an automatic for less than 100 $, on the same shelf sits a 500$ model. Must be a difference.

Guess it is nowadays as with all tools. Budget tools are more common but come with assorted quality.

Anybody considered it worrying when all of a sudden all wrenches became chrome-vanadium 15 years ago? I think we should have.

 

[ray66v]

I bought a Speedglas about 20 years ago. Back then, it cost me 2 weeks pay for the deluxe adjustable shade model, . It was worth it then, and It still works fine.

 

[EddieWalker]

Dargo made this same argument several years about about not taking a chance with his eyes to save a few bucks. At the time, i was looking at the auto darkening helmets and just assumed that if they are sold to the general public, that there is some sort of standard out there that makes them all safe.

After reading his comments back then, and doing a little looking around, I decided against buying an auto darkening helmet. I don't weld very often, I don't enjoy welding and I'd just as soon never have to do it again. I'm not going to spend allot of money on it, but what I buy, I want to work and get the job done. I have a AC/DC arc welder that's able to do what I want it to do, but needed a new helmet. I bought the Lincoln helmet with the big faceplate. It was only $40 I think. It's just the helmet and the glass. It is impossible to see anything with it on, so you have to have the rod close to where you want to start welding, but that's never been an issue anyway.

What's most important is that I will never have to worry about my eyesight from a slow response time, or it not working properly. Like Dargo said, my eyes are too valuable.

Eddie

 

[easygo]

I do have a question about this. I did get a cheap AD helmet from Northern Tool after reading some of the reaction time issues. I get myself and the electrode into position and just as I'm about to strike the arc I close my eyes for a split second to make sure the thing "has time" to fully darken. Does that protect me from the possible darkening delay/flash problem?. May be due to this practice I never noticed a flash or had eye problems.

 

[Scooby074]

Does that protect me from the possible darkening delay/flash problem?

Its probably not a bad practise with the cheaper helmets. I cant say for sure how much protection it gives though. I dont trust those cheap china helmets to meet the standards of protection stamped on them even when the shade is darkened
.

 

[tatra805]

to answer your question: yes, if you dont forget.

knowing a bit more about electronics than about welding i see this whole thing more complex.

Low quality can be the result of a lot of things. For me this is not the point of bad workmanship, that would only give you a defect helmet as result.

Circuit design and component selection are areas where a normal user cannot look in to. This goes very close with cheap production and has some well defined frames where you can skimp.

Tolerances is a main one. The wider the cheaper
Stability is another one. eg in which temperature range a component is within the set tolerance.

Now you can build the same circuit with top spec components (calibrated series or individual tested series etc) and with low end components and have a complete different helmet.

Each component comes with a quality level an i saw BIG differences in simple components from the base quality level (+-20% range) within 1 production run and between different batches. this is only te Base Components i am talking about.

Take a 100 to make the circuitery of the helmet with each of them 20% variation and you realize that the specification on your helmet is a wide spectrum and not a fix point.

With calibrated series you narrow it down to 1-2% variation (or better but than you will pay $$$$$$$$$$$$, this is more for special aplications and not for series production)

If your helmet is already slow, the other circuitery and components i consider being suspect to other flaws. (lets say i am sure, but i dont want to stick out my neck)

Let us just take the LC screen. If a 500$ helmet has one that darkens 95% in a temp range from -10 till +50 in 3ms time while a cheap one does it from +5 till +35 in 5ms you will in your heated garage never notice the difference.

Once the situation gets out of the normal you will flash your eyes. Does that make you have to ditch the cheap one?

No, but to me you should not have bought it in the first place.





Just a disclaimer; the cheap one in my text is not your helmet i have no specs or actual data of your helmet, nor do i have about a 500$ one, This is just as an example. replace the word helmet with digital camera, or washing machine and the text works also.

 

[easygo]

Well thanks for the detailed response. I do know the difference between $500 and $5000 electronics first hand, but now I'm just not certain what to think of my welding helmet. I'm just a hobby welder, but if I notice discomfort in my eyes after a longer session I know what I will have to do.

 

[johnray13]

I have a top quality European helmet ($300) with all the whistles and bells and once it didn't darken right away. It was in the cold. My eyes bothered me for a month.

The delay setting is for how fast the shade undarkens after you are done welding.

 

[ray66v]

I do have a question about this. I did get a cheap AD helmet from Northern Tool after reading some of the reaction time issues. I get myself and the electrode into position and just as I'm about to strike the arc I close my eyes for a split second to make sure the thing "has time" to fully darken. Does that protect me from the possible darkening delay/flash problem?. May be due to this practice I never noticed a flash or had eye problems.

There is a very simple way to test this. Make a series of a dozen or so 3 second spot welds, without using a helmet, just close your eyes. That night, go outside and look at a street light. There will be a big halo around the light, because you have burned your eyes. It will go away in a day. Yes, I have learned this the hard way.

The answer is no, closing your eyes does not really protect them.

 

[Dargo]

Easygo, do you use a stick welder or a MIG? I'm assuming from being a "hobby welder" that you don't TIG. If you stick weld I would think that would give the hood more time to darken as you're actually throwing off some less intense sparks before the actual arc fires up. With a MIG or TIG you get the bright flash right away. Welding thin material with a stick welder I didn't really notice my eyes hurting too much with the cheap hood (even though I likely was still getting flashed). Any time I've used a cheap hood with a MIG or especially a TIG welder I'm blinded and have really irritated eyes.

With my hood I notice that I run the shade at about 11 when I MIG or TIG but only at about 9 when I stick. Since we've been talking about the hoods and I'm off work for the weekend I cleaned up my hood and noticed that my "low battery" light was flashing. It cost me about $4.50 and 3 minutes to fix that. My adjustments are 1) shade level 2) sensitivity and 3) delay. Mine does have an "on" and "off" button as well. And, yes, I've forgotten to turn the hood on and gotten a good flash before.

 

[J_J]

This is just another one of those products that seem to confuse or alert people, because some do not like the product. Most of the time, we don't have the funds to go and check out the good from the bad. I seriously think that if there was a severe safety problem that the helmets would be recalled, and the company would be involved in a class action suit. I have two low budget helmets and one medium grade. I have never had the problems that some of you have. I think based on the electronics, that there is not a big problem with the response time. You can test those lenses by looking at a cigarette lighter sparking, looking at the police lights flashing, looking at lighting, or whatever. I look to the side just to see of the lens is darkening. If you believe in the product, use it, and if not, trash it. I would almost bet that most of that stuff is foreign made. You don't always get what you pay for. It is sort of like looking at all the TV's in a show room and trying to make a choice with the funds you have. Sure, you will say that your eyes are most precious, and I agree. I try to protect them the best that I can.

Mercedes car owners tell their friends to buy Mercedes, but guess what, Toyota sells a whole lot more cars, why. They do essentially the same job, but cost a he** of a lot less.
To each, his own.

 

[EddieWalker]

J.J.

While you may be right, I'm not taking the chance that the jury is in on the long term damage of a persons eyes is in on welding helmets. There are too many examples of companies putting out bad products that they knew were bad, but did so anyway because they calculated that they could still make more money on those products then they will lose in the lawsuit. GM and their gas tanks or Firestone and their tires.....

Eddie

 

[Scooby074]

Ive not used a Harbour Freight model, but i have used a cheap helmet from Princess Auto, their canadian equivalent. At the end of a half hour or so my eyes felt like they had a bunch of sand in them and felt "tired" from being repeatably flashed.

Throw in the facts that the cheap helmets are unrepairable,dangerous and consumables for them are unavailable locally they really are a false economy.

How do you think HF and the others can make a autodarkening helmet for 20 bucks, when even a decent manual helmet costs 2 times that amount and say it will provide the same protection as a reputable name that costs 10 times as much?

Like I said before I dont put much faith in the certification stamped on the helmet. In my experience (bad welding helmets, exploding grinding wheels and grinders that last for 10 minutes before burning out), the certs on Chinese products arent worth the paper their printed on.

 

[Eagleview]

The arc from a stick welder is not as strong as a mig , this is because the smoke from the flux on a rod screens (for the want of a better word ) the glare of the arc to a degree .

Also , regarding flashes . You may burn say , 3 rods and have the screen darken only 3 times if you are welding long runs . As opposed to stich welding or doing a vertical up where you are constantly moving the rod in and out of contact with the job to cool the last weld which may see the lens darken a hundred times . I think it would depend entirely on what type of welding you are doing at the time . I also think that doing a lot of stitch welding could give you sore eyes simply because the pupils would be dilating many times and it may be this that made my eyes sore and not because i was being flashed .

 

[wedge40]

Uh, I got my post deleted and reprimanded the last time I suggested a brand name product. I was told that doing so was "advertising", and that is not allowed here. There are several very good quality brands available. I really like the one I bought, but I'm confident that I would have been just as happy with most any of the other reputable brands. I think the top end most expensive ones are around $250, but it doesn't take that much to get a really good quality AD hood. As I said earlier, I can't see (no pun intended) risking your eyesight just to save a hundred bucks. I figure that if you can't afford to protect your eyes properly, you can't afford to weld. I did just fine with the regular old hoods for years. They don't cost too much and you're not risking your eyesight with them. Still, I sure do like that fancy auto-darkening hood though.

Yet we are allowed to post about HF tools that suck and those that don't. Seems a little two sided.

Wedge

 

[easygo]

Easygo, do you use a stick welder or a MIG? I'm assuming from being a "hobby welder" that you don't TIG. If you stick weld I would think that would give the hood more time to darken as you're actually throwing off some less intense sparks before the actual arc fires up.

Dargo,
It was a correct assumption that I only stick weld. If the arc does give a little more time in that case, I feel a little better. I have neither the need nor the funds to venture into TIG so it's all good for now.
My Northern Tool helmet also has Hi-Low sensitivity, delay and darkness settings. It has no batteries as it runs on solar panels. It is so sensitive that when I pick my head up from the the work a 20w compact fluorescent light bulb 7' above me makes the helmet go dark.