Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system

[ultrarunner]

Utility cost varies much around the country…

Some pay less 20 cents and others easily several times that.

The SF Bay Area is very high on the spectrum so what makes sense here might not elsewhere.

I’m glad I have my solar and would do it again!

 

[ericm979]

I was approached this week by a solar company.

Run away!

Anyone done anything like this? I am very skeptical about this.

You should be. Door to door solar companies are usually sleazy. Some of the lease terms are really awful. Having leased solar can make it much harder to sell the house. Most leases have really expensive buy out provisions and a lot of buyers don't want to be locked into a potentially expensive lease. Also a lot of door to door companies go bankrupt, then you may not be able to get service or warranty work.

Depending on your state's rates and rules about net metering, solar can pay back well before the life of the panels. Sometimes in just a few years. You should contact a couple reputable local companies who have been around for a while and get some quotes. It's a lot better if you can pay up front for the system or get a home equity loan to pay for it.

I'm putting solar on the new house in Oregon. They have net metering, which is very good. Power prices are about the US average but have been going up by double digit percentages each year for the last few years. They're asking for 22% this year. With the existing prices the system won't pay for itself because we're also putting in batteries for power outages. But I'll feel better not using as much power from coal plants (my power company there is about 40% coal). And with the rate increases it'll probably pay off eventually. It doesn't take many 20% increases to dramatically change the equation.

 

[WVH1977]

Did he tell you how much your initial monthly lease payments would cost?

$ 109 a month then increase 2.99 percent every year after for 25 years. I think I will look into something I can own myself.

The only reason for even thinking about this is because in Virginia, the power company is going completely solar. They are getting rid of coal and nuclear. This is causing everyones electric bill to go up to help pay for it all.

 

[Dftodd]

My panels are 2008 and still cranking out more than I use and newer panels are more efficient.

I own mine and several neighbors have lease agreements entered into when incentives were generous and they are ahead with all the California rate hikes.

The devil is in the details and leased panels or provider agreements add another step should you want to sell.

That said a home up the street with a huge provider agreement went foreclosure and the new owner was told by the solar company he has to sign up… new owner is lawyer and said to solar you missed your opportunity at the foreclosure sale so you no longer own them…

The short of the story is new owner negotiated a contract where he pays 28% of the current rate and is pleased… the system was software locked so it would not have been simple to salvage what’s there by a third party.

We looked into purchasing a house that had solar panels.

ROI for us wouldn't have been achieved.

Our last house we had an average electric bill of $135, with electric everything in the home.

The solar contract was an introductory rate of $150 a month. Then increased after that

If I'm paying more than my average electric bill for solar, there wasn't any benefit of going solar.

Grid tied solar payments to a homeowner are now next to nothing.

The only person benefitting from it would be the power company purchasing my electricity.

 

[Carl_NH]

It all depends on your rate per KWH - today 1000 KWH in NH is $260/Month, last year it was $350 per 1000 KWH as it varies based on fuel costs.

I would think a full electric home in AR is at least 2000 KWH ./ Month - here that's $500/month bill.

Solar ROI is regional - highly populated regions like CA and the Eastern US have the highest rates.

 

[ultrarunner]

We looked into purchasing a house that had solar panels.

ROI for us wouldn't have been achieved.

Our last house we had an average electric bill of $135, with electric everything in the home.

The solar contract was an introductory rate of $150 a month. Then increased after that

If I'm paying more than my average electric bill for solar, there wasn't any benefit of going solar.

Grid tied solar payments to a homeowner are now next to nothing.

The only person benefitting from it would be the power company purchasing my electricity.

I got under the wire for a better 20 year grid tie and when it’s all said and done I receive a true up check in the $250 to $350 range.

 

[Oaktree]

If I was younger, in a place with more sun than VT, I'd do it again, the same way.

Both valid points. Like you, I'm in northern New England and at this house we get almost no direct sun from mid Nov. thru mid Feb., the exact time of year our electric usage is the highest. Sun's just too low in the sky.
We're both in our mid 70s, not likely it'll pay for itself in our lifetimes.

6kW with 160W panels 2008 and SunnyBoy Inverter

Is that picture from your Oakland property or one of your others? If the former, it's a lot different than I pictured it.
Good way to utilize a steep, otherwise minimally useful piece of land.

 

[hube2]

As others have said, I would not lease, not the best deal.

I have a 10kw ground mounted system that was put in, in 2017 while the state and federal incentives were extremely good and paid for nearly 50% of the cost. My system paid for itself, or at least what it cost me, sometime last year (7 years). When it was installed it produced all the power I used each year. Now it is below my usage because my usage has gone up do to installation of heat pumps 2 summers ago so I now have a couple of months that I'm paying, but I'm still good with that because I'm spending less on heat than I was with the oil fired boiler so I'm spending less overall.

Even though I purchased outright the company that put it in guaranteed it for 20 years, and they are still in business. I did have to pay them to upgrade my monitor to 4G when they shut down 3G in 2022. Even if I have to replace the inverter after the 20 years we'll still see 13 years of nearly free power.

I don't know what your state offers in incentives, but I expect the federal incentive to disappear in 2026, or maybe even this year. Now may not a good time to be thinking about going solar.

And about going green, that had nothing to do with my decision, is was all about money and how much it would save me in the long run. I'm now getting ready to retire, I hope, and having solar and very low yearly electric costs was part of my retirement plan.

Funny story, I had a guy show up at my door in January trying to sell me solar. I pointed at the system behind my house and asked him what he was thinking.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have a few clients that had solar panels installed because they felt they would save money or even make money by selling power back to the Electric Company. They have all told me that it was a huge mistake that they wish they had never done. I don't remember the details enough to write them down, it's just what they told me.

I also work with a bunch of local realtors. Every one of them have told me that solar panels make selling the house harder. Buyers do not want them, and in most cases, the seller has to remove them to sell the house or lower the price of the house in order to sell it.

I wonder what happens when you need a new roof? Hail is very common here and most people wait for a hailstorm to get a new roof. Their insurance pays for it, or most of it, and it's usually just a matter of time until happens. Spring thunderstorms can be extreme here. What happens to solar panels in a hailstorm? What do you do with solar panels when you get a new roof? How much does that ad to the cost of a new roof?

 

[Mtsoxfan]

I have a few clients that had solar panels installed because they felt they would save money or even make money by selling power back to the Electric Company. They have all told me that it was a huge mistake that they wish they had never done. I don't remember the details enough to write them down, it's just what they told me.

I also work with a bunch of local realtors. Every one of them have told me that solar panels make selling the house harder. Buyers do not want them, and in most cases, the seller has to remove them to sell the house or lower the price of the house in order to sell it.

I wonder what happens when you need a new roof? Hail is very common here and most people wait for a hailstorm to get a new roof. Their insurance pays for it, or most of it, and it's usually just a matter of time until happens. Spring thunderstorms can be extreme here. What happens to solar panels in a hailstorm? What do you do with solar panels when you get a new roof? How much does that ad to the cost of a new roof?

Everyone has a story an opinion. Most solar companies will not put on roof unless roof is less than 7? years old. Our system was 90% or more coverage over asphault shingles, so it will extend the life to a large degree. I was told that if a removal, reinstall was needed, it would be roughly $2500. Who knows what price is now. I wish I could have gone ground mount, but too much shading.
When we sold our home, OWNING the system was a positive. 6 offers well over asking price, estimated to be $50k because of solar. This is not for everyone, each has to weigh pros and cons. For me, and others just on this forum, it was money well spent.

 

[wmfamily]

Thank you fellow taxpayers for funding my system. It really was a no-brainer for me and an example of poor government use of taxpayer funds.

That is my issue with the whole process. Here in Illinois, the door-to-door sales people say the "government" (really us) will pay for a large part of it. Illinois is already bankrupt and federal isn't much better. If you want solar, then you should foot the bill and reap the rewards (if any) and not have the taxpayers pay.

 

[ponytug]

I have a few clients that had solar panels installed because they felt they would save money or even make money by selling power back to the Electric Company. They have all told me that it was a huge mistake that they wish they had never done. I don't remember the details enough to write them down, it's just what they told me.

I also work with a bunch of local realtors. Every one of them have told me that solar panels make selling the house harder. Buyers do not want them, and in most cases, the seller has to remove them to sell the house or lower the price of the house in order to sell it.

I wonder what happens when you need a new roof? Hail is very common here and most people wait for a hailstorm to get a new roof. Their insurance pays for it, or most of it, and it's usually just a matter of time until happens. Spring thunderstorms can be extreme here. What happens to solar panels in a hailstorm? What do you do with solar panels when you get a new roof? How much does that ad to the cost of a new roof?

Most solar these days pass a "hail test" that offers some resistance to hail damage, ditto wind, but that's not to say they are "hail proof".

Realtors here say two things a) leases are very hard to sell due to the end of contract terms, and b) something slightly different which is that the solar panels do not add to the value of the house in the eyes of buyers, only later, which I guess means many home buyers don't factor utility costs into their home purchases. Bottom line, solar is a probably "invest for your own interests" item, not like walk in tubs, gold faucets or trendy counter tops, items that seem all too popular with home buyers, for whatever reasons. There were definitely times when I wondered about home buyers when we were house hunting. E.g. admiring a new cheap spray paint job where you could see the bits that the painter missed on a house with a failed (cracked due to poor concrete) foundation. Talk about lipstick on a pig.

I do think that solar purchase is the way to go, but that solar itself is a highly local decision due to local power prices, local codes/HOA rules, sunlight, and the competence/competitiveness of the local solar installation market. We would do it again in a heart beat, as the ROI was under four years. We will probably quadruple our solar in a ground mount add-on as we add heat pumps.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ultrarunner]

Is that picture from your Oakland property or one of your others? If the former, it's a lot different than I pictured it.
Good way to utilize a steep, otherwise minimally useful piece of land.

Yep… the backyard of my Oakland home… picture taken in early Spring… I’m on a saddle ridge with the street running down the center of the ridge and homes on each side of the ridge have lower property line boundary running to the middle of the creek beds.

One picture is looking at my place from across the canyon and second picture is the part of the rear yard that is terraced.

It’s about a mile walk on the paved roads to the home where I grew up here in East Oakland.

About half the distance cutting through the canyon on moms land.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have a few clients that had solar panels installed because they felt they would save money or even make money by selling power back to the Electric Company. They have all told me that it was a huge mistake that they wish they had never done. I don't remember the details enough to write them down, it's just what they told me.

I also work with a bunch of local realtors. Every one of them have told me that solar panels make selling the house harder. Buyers do not want them, and in most cases, the seller has to remove them to sell the house or lower the price of the house in order to sell it.

I wonder what happens when you need a new roof? Hail is very common here and most people wait for a hailstorm to get a new roof. Their insurance pays for it, or most of it, and it's usually just a matter of time until happens. Spring thunderstorms can be extreme here. What happens to solar panels in a hailstorm? What do you do with solar panels when you get a new roof? How much does that ad to the cost of a new roof?

For these reason I opted on ground mount array. I would have picked up a little more sun on the roof but having clay tile roof it’s a roof I never go up on and I sure didn’t want panels up there.

Many factors to consider such as optimal placement, incentives, current and future electricity cost… lease or owned…

I’ve thought about someday replacing the 160W panels with new that are more than double the output but I would also need to replace the invertor.

My panels are so old because the previous owner builder started the project but was never able to complete it… my first project buying the place was to finish and get the system commissioned and start selling power to the utility.

 

[Oaktree]

Yep… the backyard of my Oakland home… picture taken in early Spring… I’m on a saddle ridge with the street running down the center of the ridge and homes on each side of the ridge have lower property line boundary running to the middle of the creek beds.

Nice place. I had pictured Oakland as being very urban (and I'm sure some neighborhoods are).

 

[Oaktree]

I also work with a bunch of local realtors. Every one of them have told me that solar panels make selling the house harder. Buyers do not want them, and in most cases, the seller has to remove them to sell the house or lower the price of the house in order to sell it.

I would imagine that would vary considerably by location.
Gotta wonder why solar would be seen as undesirable, especially given the power issues you had there a couple winters ago. Is it just a red state thing, or is there more to it?

 

[5030]

I suspect that applies to roof mounted systems more than free standing arrays.

Unless you have a lifetime roof like a metal one that never requires replacing, having a roof mounted system is one, gonna be ugly and two will require removal before applying a new roof whereas a free standing array has none of those expensive drawbacks and all the ones that I see around here are freestanding and most of them have rotational controls that align the panels in the most efficient position relative to the sun during seasonal changes. I don't believe a roof mounted array is rotational.

 

[5030]

The ones I have on the roof of my RV are also angle adjustable but are manually adjustable.

 

[ultrarunner]

Nice place. I had pictured Oakland as being very urban (and I'm sure some neighborhoods are).

Oakland really is a city of neighborhoods and it’s manufacturing history is all but gone… I remember the foundries, car and truck factories now shopping centers, etc.

In general the price of homes increases with elevation… some of the most expensive homes voted to create their own city… Piedmont and it’s totally surrounded by Oakland…

Solar installs are still going in but renters are locked out as the incentives are geared towards single family owner occupied.

 

[hube2]

I’ve thought about someday replacing the 160W panels with new that are more than double the output but I would also need to replace the invertor.

I've thought about the same thing. My panels are 280w. The same company now makes a 305w panel with the same dimensions that would slide right into my current ground mount. This would increase the output of my system to cover my usage, but not worth doing now for and 875w increase. Eventually the panels are going to start going bad, hopefully not for another 15 years. If I'm still around I will replace what I have with higher output panels. Who knows, by then they may have even higher output panels at the same size so I don't need to modify anything. The inverter I have can handle 60% more than my current output, so no worries there unless that dies.