Roofing discussion!!!

[EddieWalker]

In Texas we put the metal roof over the shingles
no problems in 20 plus years

willy

Not everywhere in Texas. As a General Contractor, when a client wants a new roof, one of the red flags that I use to identify the bad roofers from the good ones is in their prep work. Leaving shingles on the roof is a sign of a bad contractor. Of the 20 plus roofing contractors in my area, there are only a couple that do a good job.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Not everywhere in Texas. As a General Contractor, when a client wants a new roof, one of the red flags that I use to identify the bad roofers from the good ones is in their prep work. Leaving shingles on the roof is a sign of a bad contractor. Of the 20 plus roofing contractors in my area, there are only a couple that do a good job.

I live in a small cottage where the previous owners paid for a new roof shortly before we bought the place. So is is what I'm going to eventually have to deal with. Original was ceder shakes. Then a later of asphalt shingles. And then incredibly a layer of interlocking aluminum shingles. The aluminum supposedly had a 50 year warranty but they won't stay attached in our winds here because the nails used were too short to reach the base shiplap. I do believe the aluminum shingles except for the paint would have easily lasted 50 years with a proper installation. So now at some point I get to clean up this mess and install a new roof. Lucky me! So obviously all the shingles are at some point going to need to be removed and sorted to be either burnt or recycled.

I was once told that for a metal roof you either remove all the previous shingle nails or strap before installation. The reason being that the old shingle nails will eventually wear a hole in the metal roof from expansion and contraction. I'm thinking a layer of good roofing felt as an extra moisture barrier, then 1x4 strapping and then the metal. I believe the strapping lets the metal breathe a bit. Both for condensation and the heat from the sun.

 

[jyoutz]

I live in a small cottage where the previous owners paid for a new roof shortly before we bought the place. So is is what I'm going to eventually have to deal with. Original was ceder shakes. Then a later of asphalt shingles. And then incredibly a layer of interlocking aluminum shingles. The aluminum supposedly had a 50 year warranty but they won't stay attached in our winds here because the nails used were too short to reach the base shiplap. I do believe the aluminum shingles except for the paint would have easily lasted 50 years with a proper installation. So now at some point I get to clean up this mess and install a new roof. Lucky me! So obviously all the shingles are at some point going to need to be removed and sorted to be either burnt or recycled.

I was once told that for a metal roof you either remove all the previous shingle nails or strap before installation. The reason being that the old shingle nails will eventually wear a hole in the metal roof from expansion and contraction. I'm thinking a layer of good roofing felt as an extra moisture barrier, then 1x4 strapping and then the metal. I believe the strapping lets the metal breathe a bit. Both for condensation and the heat from the sun.

That’s exactly what my contractor did. He pulled the roof cap shingles, then covered the shingles with the platinum water barrier wrap before installing the steel roofing.

 

[Frankenkubota]

Here's a roofing question. I already know the answer but i'm looking for someone to tell me it's ok......

I put a very expensive standing seam roof on house and separate garage. Ate up a bunch of budget! I told the roofer, i want the same roof as the one on the bank.

Over the years Ive found that every hole in a roof is a source of problems, eventually. Working for my contractor brother we replaced many sky lights, every new generation guaranteed not to leak.

I call BS!

Years ago, I vented a-washer drain into the attic. The home depot guy sold me a plastic vent cap that went on the 2 inch pvc and bingo, i was done. He assured me it was legit.

On my new house i asked the plumber to limit the vents thru the roof, or to eliminate them all together, vent it to the attic.

Nope, he said code says i must have at least 1 pipe going thru the roof and it must extend so many inches blah blah.

My roofer said, the plumber puts in the vent. The plumber says, the roofer puts in the vent.

Turns out, nobody put in the vent and i just passed final inspection yesterday!

Again, my brother the builder says i must vent to the outside for 2 reasons. Humidity from the open vent pipe in the attic and....the oder from the waste.

I can't argue with the humidity issue but, isn't the p trap supposed to stop the oder? And If necessary, couldn't i put a dehumidifier in the attic?

My roofer did suggest that when cutting the hole, cut a 2 inch hole in the metal and a 4 inch hole in the osb underneath. The vent cap is then secured only to the metal, not into the osb. He said do that so when the metal and wood expand at different rates etc, it won't cause ripples in the metal.

So....do i vent thru the roof or into the attic?

 

[MossRoad]

There's no P trap on the main stack vent, so you're dumping methane into your attic. Also moisture. It's a very bad idea to vent directly into an attic.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Here's a roofing question. I already know the answer but i'm looking for someone to tell me it's ok......

I put a very expensive standing seam roof on house and separate garage. Ate up a bunch of budget! I told the roofer, i want the same roof as the one on the bank.

Over the years Ive found that every hole in a roof is a source of problems, eventually. Working for my contractor brother we replaced many sky lights, every new generation guaranteed not to leak.

I call BS!

Years ago, I vented a-washer drain into the attic. The home depot guy sold me a plastic vent cap that went on the 2 inch pvc and bingo, i was done. He assured me it was legit.

On my new house i asked the plumber to limit the vents thru the roof, or to eliminate them all together, vent it to the attic.

Nope, he said code says i must have at least 1 pipe going thru the roof and it must extend so many inches blah blah.

My roofer said, the plumber puts in the vent. The plumber says, the roofer puts in the vent.

Turns out, nobody put in the vent and i just passed final inspection yesterday!

Again, my brother the builder says i must vent to the outside for 2 reasons. Humidity from the open vent pipe in the attic and....the oder from the waste.

I can't argue with the humidity issue but, isn't the p trap supposed to stop the oder? And If necessary, couldn't i put a dehumidifier in the attic?

My roofer did suggest that when cutting the hole, cut a 2 inch hole in the metal and a 4 inch hole in the osb underneath. The vent cap is then secured only to the metal, not into the osb. He said do that so when the metal and wood expand at different rates etc, it won't cause ripples in the metal.

So....do i vent thru the roof or into the attic?

Good Lord !!! Please vent thru the roof.

 

[4570Man]

Roof vent stacks suck. They’re a guaranteed leak source. I don’t know why code won’t allow a wall or soffit vent for them. A rubber boot only last about 10 years. Left unmaintained they’ll every one leak.

 

[4570Man]

I’ve had better luck with these boxes vs rubber boots. I’m wondering if tge inspectors would allow the pipe to be cut short and put one of these over it .

 

[fried1765]

Here's a roofing question. I already know the answer but i'm looking for someone to tell me it's ok......

I put a very expensive standing seam roof on house and separate garage. Ate up a bunch of budget! I told the roofer, i want the same roof as the one on the bank.

Over the years Ive found that every hole in a roof is a source of problems, eventually. Working for my contractor brother we replaced many sky lights, every new generation guaranteed not to leak.

I call BS!

Years ago, I vented a-washer drain into the attic. The home depot guy sold me a plastic vent cap that went on the 2 inch pvc and bingo, i was done. He assured me it was legit.

On my new house i asked the plumber to limit the vents thru the roof, or to eliminate them all together, vent it to the attic.

Nope, he said code says i must have at least 1 pipe going thru the roof and it must extend so many inches blah blah.

My roofer said, the plumber puts in the vent. The plumber says, the roofer puts in the vent.

Turns out, nobody put in the vent and i just passed final inspection yesterday!

Again, my brother the builder says i must vent to the outside for 2 reasons. Humidity from the open vent pipe in the attic and....the oder from the waste.

I can't argue with the humidity issue but, isn't the p trap supposed to stop the oder? And If necessary, couldn't i put a dehumidifier in the attic?

My roofer did suggest that when cutting the hole, cut a 2 inch hole in the metal and a 4 inch hole in the osb underneath. The vent cap is then secured only to the metal, not into the osb. He said do that so when the metal and wood expand at different rates etc, it won't cause ripples in the metal.

So....do i vent thru the roof or into the attic?

Absolutely....thru the roof !!!

 

[fried1765]

I’ve had better luck with these boxes vs rubber boots. I’m wondering if tge inspectors would allow the pipe to be cut short and put one of these over it . View attachment 707731

For a plumbing vent, that would NOT meet code anywhere!

 

[4570Man]

For a plumbing vent, that would NOT meet code anywhere!

I agree it probably wouldn’t but I don’t see any good reason why you couldn’t put the pipe through the roof a couple inches and stick that over it.

 

[fried1765]

I agree it probably wouldn’t but I don’t see any good reason why you couldn’t put the pipe through the roof a couple inches and stick that over it.

Perhaps not in TN, but in many areas of the USA, winter snow would seal off that vent.

 

[Handloader109]

We weren't aware the this was a sub. Thought it was one of the contractor's regular crews.

It didn't help that our project manager wouldn't go up on the roof to see our complaints. Got the principle out that sold us on the jpb, and things started rolling. In the end we are thankful our job was completed. Business owner was indicted and many jobs were abandoned. Our roof and 12kw solar system install were completed about 4mo before they went under. We got lucky.

Lucky? I'd say not really, if the installer is bankrupt, you have nothing to fall back on if you end up finding an issue. All on you with no warranty. I would expect you don't look for anything to come up, so you may be really lucky

 

[Handloader109]

The ONLY issue with putting metal roof directly over shingles is if you have hidden deck issues. There is ZERO difference in what will happen to the roof. Ain't enough air between the shingles and the metal to sweat any degree that wouldn't happen with 1x purlins.(which actually would be worse if moisture existed) You are assuming air flow between the 1x and the metal. Ain't happening.
BTW just had house built and installed metal over membrane over sheathing. no 1xs. will last decades and you can walk on it if you wanted......

 

[Handloader109]

Here's a roofing question. I already know the answer but i'm looking for someone to tell me it's ok......

I put a very expensive standing seam roof on house and separate garage. Ate up a bunch of budget! I told the roofer, i want the same roof as the one on the bank.

Over the years Ive found that every hole in a roof is a source of problems, eventually. Working for my contractor brother we replaced many sky lights, every new generation guaranteed not to leak.

I call BS!

Years ago, I vented a-washer drain into the attic. The home depot guy sold me a plastic vent cap that went on the 2 inch pvc and bingo, i was done. He assured me it was legit.

On my new house i asked the plumber to limit the vents thru the roof, or to eliminate them all together, vent it to the attic.

Nope, he said code says i must have at least 1 pipe going thru the roof and it must extend so many inches blah blah.

My roofer said, the plumber puts in the vent. The plumber says, the roofer puts in the vent.

Turns out, nobody put in the vent and i just passed final inspection yesterday!

Again, my brother the builder says i must vent to the outside for 2 reasons. Humidity from the open vent pipe in the attic and....the oder from the waste.

I can't argue with the humidity issue but, isn't the p trap supposed to stop the oder? And If necessary, couldn't i put a dehumidifier in the attic?

My roofer did suggest that when cutting the hole, cut a 2 inch hole in the metal and a 4 inch hole in the osb underneath. The vent cap is then secured only to the metal, not into the osb. He said do that so when the metal and wood expand at different rates etc, it won't cause ripples in the metal.

So....do i vent thru the roof or into the attic?

at least one vent vertical through the roof. New home, 2 bathrooms. all vents connected, one vent. vent is for gas and to help water drain properly.

 

[EddieWalker]

You really want that vent up high enough to allow the gases to float away and not get back into your house.

In a lot of houses, you connect all of your vents in the attic, then run one pipe through the roof, where it's not noticeable from the front of the house.

For metal roofs, I always buy the rubber boots from my metal roof supplier. I've never seen anything that comes close at Home Depot or Lowes. What the sell is fine for shingles, but never for metal.

I've never seen a skylight that wasn't already leaking, or about to. I have seen people put a lot of money into fixing them, only to have them leak again and again. What I don't get is why anybody thinks they are saving money by not having to turn a light on, but fail to understand that there is no insulation on a skylight and it's just like having a window open in your house. R30 insulation or better in your attic except for that plastic window in the roof with zero insulation.

 

[fried1765]

You really want that vent up high enough to allow the gases to float away and not get back into your house.

In a lot of houses, you connect all of your vents in the attic, then run one pipe through the roof, where it's not noticeable from the front of the house.

For metal roofs, I always buy the rubber boots from my metal roof supplier. I've never seen anything that comes close at Home Depot or Lowes. What the sell is fine for shingles, but never for metal.

I've never seen a skylight that wasn't already leaking, or about to. I have seen people put a lot of money into fixing them, only to have them leak again and again. What I don't get is why anybody thinks they are saving money by not having to turn a light on, but fail to understand that there is no insulation on a skylight and it's just like having a window open in your house. R30 insulation or better in your attic except for that plastic window in the roof with zero insulation.

Skylights are installed for "ambience", not for their insulation qualities.
Quality skylights have double or triple pane glass.
Cheap skylights are the uninsulated bubble type.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Hello all, I just wanted to get some other opinions and objective discussion about a situation i came across this weekend. I observed a roofing contractor who installs a lot of tin roofs. He was doing something i thought was maybe worth discussing. I observed him working on an existing roof that was shingled and he was putting new tin over it. Now here is the questionable part. Instead of rolling the tar paper/felt the length of the house, starting at the bottom, and overlapping to the eve. He was starting at the end of the house and rolling from one side to the other overhang to overhang, or gutter to gutter per say, overlapping as he went about 8 inches. Now i do know this contractor somewhat, and confused about his new tar paper technique, i approached him. I had to ask him why he was doing that? and his response was it did not matter which way he ran the tar paper over existing shingles???? and after some friendly discussion i decided the best thing i could do was move on and not try to change his mind anymore! So what do you guys think will his way work. i personally think it would open up more opportunity for leaks????

I understand that the owner might took the call to not remove the old shingles some people decide to do it that way for cost saving and sound proofing as tin roof can be noisy but my concern is the increase in dead load of the roof. As far as your actual question yes you are right the tar paper should've been done horizontally starting at the bottom with an overlap working your way up, the contractor might have a point it ''doesn't matter since there is shingles underneath'' but then if that's the case why putting tar paper then ? if you are going to use a product install it the way it should be installed if not its useless.

 

[jthibodeau89]

Lucky? I'd say not really, if the installer is bankrupt, you have nothing to fall back on if you end up finding an issue. All on you with no warranty. I would expect you don't look for anything to come up, so you may be really lucky

Lucky in that our job got finished. Others were left with roofs and solar installations incomplete.

In my experience once final payment has been made, it is difficult to get the contractor back out a few years later for a warranty issue. In any event i have the number of the sub crew that did the final job.

 

[Frankenkubota]

You really want that vent up high enough to allow the gases to float away and not get back into your house.

In a lot of houses, you connect all of your vents in the attic, then run one pipe through the roof, where it's not noticeable from the front of the house.

For metal roofs, I always buy the rubber boots from my metal roof supplier. I've never seen anything that comes close at Home Depot or Lowes. What the sell is fine for shingles, but never for metal.

I've never seen a skylight that wasn't already leaking, or about to. I have seen people put a lot of money into fixing them, only to have them leak again and again. What I don't get is why anybody thinks they are saving money by not having to turn a light on, but fail to understand that there is no insulation on a skylight and it's just like having a window open in your house. R30 insulation or better in your attic except for that plastic window in the roof with zero insulation.

yea....i agree on all points, especially the sky lights and the vents at lowe's vs roofing supply store. i've checked.

I just hate to put any kind of hole in a roof, especially mine.

My question is re the gasses. if you refer to the humidity i agree but again, the nasty gasses from the kitchen or bathroom are trapped by the.....P trap? No?