Reminder - Cost of Ownership of Gas vs Diesel

[sandman2234]

I have owned gas pickup trucks all my life. Went for a ride in a friends pickup..a 2000 Ford diesel pick up. I looked at the trailer we were hooking to and realized that my gas pickup would probably not like hauling that thing, it was big, ugly and way overbuilt. Once we loaded it and took off down the back roads, over hills and around curves, with him never shifting a gear (it was a six speed) I began thinking about how my pickup would have been shifting down at every hill to pull that empty trailer, much less a loaded one! Do I need a diesel truck like that... probably not, but since I now have one, it does everything I ask of it, without a problem. I walk right by the gas pick up most days because I enjoy driving the diesel. It is not all about the cost of ownership, but I do know that if I subjected the gas truck to the many miles that I have put the diesel through pulling as heavy of trailers that the diesel just takes in stride, I would be putting a motor and a couple of transmissions in it!
David from jax

 

[aczlan]

Interesting story from a co-worker:
He had a 2011 F350 SRW with the 6.7L Diesel, in MINT condition. He bought it new for $43,000 and has used it to tow his camper.
He went into the dealership to look at getting new tires and walked out with a new truck.
They offered him $42,300 for his truck plus $6k in rebates and he saved the $1300 it was going to cost him for new tires. So for $5700 he went from a 3 year old truck to an almost identical new one (specced the same, but that trim level now has a backup camera and seats with HVAC).

Aaron Z

 

[buickanddeere]

Interesting story from a co-worker:
He had a 2011 F350 SRW with the 6.7L Diesel, in MINT condition. He bought it new for $43,000 and has used it to tow his camper.
He went into the dealership to look at getting new tires and walked out with a new truck.
They offered him $42,300 for his truck plus $6k in rebates and he saved the $1300 it was going to cost him for new tires. So for $5700 he went from a 3 year old truck to an almost identical new one (specced the same, but that trim level now has a backup camera and seats with HVAC).

Aaron Z

Who is going to purchase that four year old pickup for $45,000+ from the dealer when they can get a new truck cheaper?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Who is going to purchase that four year old pickup for $45,000+ from the dealer when they can get a new truck cheaper?

They are out there. My family owns a Chrysler/Ram/Jeep dealership. It was my grandfather's for 40 years and now it's his brothers.

Every day people walk in looking for a "good used so and so" 9 times out of 10 you can buy an identical new one cheaper than used unless paying cash. Reason is just as stated above. Rebates, 0% financing, dealers incentives, ect. Some people just think they can't afford new and only look at used.

Chris

 

[aczlan]

Who is going to purchase that four year old pickup for $45,000+ from the dealer when they can get a new truck cheaper?

No idea, perhaps there is an extra incentive if they sell enough trucks which made up for the price?
IIRC, it was the sales manager (who has sold this guy several trucks) that made the offer. I will watch to see when it comes up on the dealers site.
I think he said that he got 0.9% financing on it.

Aaron Z

 

[MossRoad]

Interesting story from a co-worker:
He had a 2011 F350 SRW with the 6.7L Diesel, in MINT condition. He bought it new for $43,000 and has used it to tow his camper.
He went into the dealership to look at getting new tires and walked out with a new truck.
They offered him $42,300 for his truck plus $6k in rebates and he saved the $1300 it was going to cost him for new tires. So for $5700 he went from a 3 year old truck to an almost identical new one (specced the same, but that trim level now has a backup camera and seats with HVAC).

Aaron Z

And I have an interesting story, too....
I paid $20,00 for my first house, $30,000 for 20 acres of farmland, and $65,000 for my current house. 4 years tuition at Purdue is about $38,000. I have one there now and another in two years. I have never, ever spent more than $13,000 on a vehicle. So I'm fairly sure I will never, ever, own a diesel pickup truck that is in any kind of workable condition! :laughing:

 

[wsc9tt]

That article was not talking about trucks with big block diesel engines.
It was about small commuter cars with high end 4-cyl diesel engines getting 45mpg.
The fuel savings was not because diesel is cheaper it is because those cars get really good mileage.

Those trucks also get really good mileage compared to similar sized gas engines, but only if you put a 10,000 lb load on the back of the truck.
When the truck is empty they are pointless and expensive.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

In my opinion, in a 3/4 ton truck, cost of ownership of a gas vs. diesel engine is basically equal.

I drive a diesel mainly because I pull heavy loads fairly often. But, I have and I will consider a gas every time I buy.

Diesel engine vehicles cost more up front, but you recover a good bit of that at resale.

Diesel fuel cost more at the pump, but you generally get better fuel mileage.

Diesel engine maintenance cost more, but you usually do less maintenance.

I own 2 Isuzu NPR trucks, one is diesel, one is gas.

I own 2 - 3/4 ton pickups, one is diesel, one is gas.

I say the cost of ownership of gas vs. diesel is a wash in the long run.

 

[Danny C]

Last I knew gas trucks had fuel filters, transmission filters also. Gas vehicles also have emissions systems that fail. I replaced an EGR valve on the wife's car about 4 years ago.

I can't say I know but a couple of people that own newer diesel trucks and they don't have problems yet, but I do agree, it can be a problem but I do think they are getting better.

Keep this in mind, this is the future of diesel engines, like it or hate it. It the same for everybody, tractors, light trucks, big rigs, heavy equipment. We can whine about it or adapt. This is just like the late 70's and early 80's with gas vehicles, people whined and ***** about the emissions stuff but I don't read anybody complaining about it now on gas vehicles.

This forum needs a "Like" button!

 

[Danny C]

I do not want to sound like a diesel hater but... a 7.3PSD holds 14-15 quarts. The filter is about 4 times bigger than a V-8 filter, and probably 2-3 times $. Not many oil filters can go 15,000 miles. That's a few dollars. A gasoline fuel filter does not need to be changed as often as a diesel fuel filter. Spark plugs on modern engines do not need to be changed very often either. A diesel will often wear out batteries more often, and there are usually two. RollingsFarms also has an excellent point. And if diesels are so great, why do I always see them for sale at a 10-1 ratio to a gas engine? I think enough people will get fed up with this and reliability will have to return.

I would suspect your observation is due to the fact that OEM's have sold 10 diesels to every 1 gasser for about the past 14 years or so............therefore the market should have about 10 diesels for every gasser!

 

[buickanddeere]

I would suspect your observation is due to the fact that OEM's have sold 10 diesels to every 1 gasser for about the past 14 years or so............therefore the market should have about 10 diesels for every gasser!

You are going to have to explain that more

 

[dodge man]

In my opinion, in a 3/4 ton truck, cost of ownership of a gas vs. diesel engine is basically equal.

I drive a diesel mainly because I pull heavy loads fairly often. But, I have and I will consider a gas every time I buy.

Diesel engine vehicles cost more up front, but you recover a good bit of that at resale.

Diesel fuel cost more at the pump, but you generally get better fuel mileage.

Diesel engine maintenance cost more, but you usually do less maintenance.

I own 2 Isuzu NPR trucks, one is diesel, one is gas.

I own 2 - 3/4 ton pickups, one is diesel, one is gas.

I say the cost of ownership of gas vs. diesel is a wash in the long run.

Finally someone rings in that can actually compare. You are saying what I've always said, its probably a toss up.

Someone said this study was only about commuter cars, that's not true, they did have trucks in it also. There are two links at the beginning of this thread, the second one has more details.

 

[Diamondpilot]

You are going to have to explain that more

Not sure of the numbers today but 3 or so years ago GM sold about 50% of the HD trucks as diesel. Ford was at about 80% and Dodge at around 90%.

Chris

 

[buickanddeere]

Must be a local phenomenon at one dealership? U.S. and Canada wide I would wager a rough guess at approx 10% diesels since diesel fuel prices increased for the 2007 trucks.

 

[aczlan]

Must be a local phenomenon at one dealership? U.S. and Canada wide I would wager a rough guess at approx 10% diesels since diesel fuel prices increased for the 2007 trucks.

On 3/4 ton and up?

Aaron Z

 

[Diamondpilot]

Must be a local phenomenon at one dealership? U.S. and Canada wide I would wager a rough guess at approx 10% diesels since diesel fuel prices increased for the 2007 trucks.

Like I said, this was probably 3 years ago.

Nothing local about it. The numbers were manufactures numbers posted in Motor Trend.

Chris

 

[buickanddeere]

So now at this late date instead of "pickups" it's "3/4 and one ton pickup"?
20% of pickups sold in 2012 were 3/4 or 1 ton. Of those Ram was 85% diesel, Ford 68% diesel,
GMC 55% diesel and Chev 45% diesel.
Now where pray tell does Danny C get " 10 diesels for every gasser"?
It's looking like approx 15% of pickups sold are diesel.

Who Sold the Most HD Pickups in 2012? - PickupTrucks.com News

 

[Capricious]

Topped off with gasoline this morning @ $2.479/gal. The same station was selling #2 diesel @ $3.479; exactly one dollar more.

5 minutes later drove by a station selling gas @ $2.479 and diesel @ 2.519

This is the time of year when there is the biggest variance between the two, but until this morning I had never seen a variance in excess of one dollar/gal.

 

[Danny C]

So now at this late date instead of "pickups" it's "3/4 and one ton pickup"?
20% of pickups sold in 2012 were 3/4 or 1 ton. Of those Ram was 85% diesel, Ford 68% diesel,
GMC 55% diesel and Chev 45% diesel.
Now where pray tell does Danny C get " 10 diesels for every gasser"?
It's looking like approx 15% of pickups sold are diesel.

Who Sold the Most HD Pickups in 2012? - PickupTrucks.com News

That is a 2012 number the Buck. I said over the past 14 years or so. It was also a slight hyperbolie same as you saying you see 10 diesels for sale for every gas. Where are your numbers to support your claim?

 

[Danny C]

This is from Motor Trend:

"In our Real MPG testing, it performed better than advertised, returning 20 mpg city, 28 mpg highway, and 23 mpg combined. Moreover, in our payload fuel economy test, it returned an observed 23 mpg. The Ram's combined Real MPG is 21 percent better than the F-150's, covering the current 19-percent national price premium of diesel, though paying off the EcoDiesel's $3,120-$4,770 price premium would require time or a dramatic change in the fuel price landscape. It is worth noting, however, that in the popular crew-cab/short-box 4x4 configuration, the F-150 Lariat 2.7 EcoBoost and Ram Outdoorsman EcoDiesel price out pretty comparatively."

Read more: Comparison: 2015 Ford F-150 vs. Ram 1500 vs. Chevrolet Silverado

Comparison: 2015 Ford F-150 vs. Ram 1500 vs. Chevrolet Silverado Page 3

The article compares 1/2ton models and not 3/4 ton models and the last sentence of the highlighted paragraph is important to note.