Dirt Moving Rear hydraulic remote .

[ptsg]

That's indeed very odd.

I've never had that problem with mine. Mine just drifts a bit but that's normal because I built the top link using a cylinder I had laying around and it really needs a seal kit. Leaks internal and externally, just a drip. But randomly getting air in the cylinder never happened to me.

Do you happen to know if you remotes both on the Ford and Kubota, have load check valves? It's a cap/plug in between the two work ports. I wonder if that would make a difference in your top link.

 

[ovrszd]

That's indeed very odd.

I've never had that problem with mine. Mine just drifts a bit but that's normal because I built the top link using a cylinder I had laying around and it really needs a seal kit. Leaks internal and externally, just a drip. But randomly getting air in the cylinder never happened to me.

Do you happen to know if you remotes both on the Ford and Kubota, have load check valves? It's a cap/plug in between the two work ports. I wonder if that would make a difference in your top link.

I don't think either of them do.

I'll look this evening for sure.

 

[bryn67]

It's very frustrating. I went thru it a few years ago. I never found a solution. I've had my hydraulic top link for 7 years I think. It operates today exactly like it did 7 years ago. Acts exactly like yours.

If I want precision control I extend/retract a couple times and then it's solid for awhile with short movements. Then for no apparent reason the air is back. Both of my tractors act the same way.

I tried switching rear remotes. 3 on the Kubota, 2 on the Ford. No difference.

There are several members here with the same problem. Most, like me, just deal with it. Some give up and go back to a mechanical top link. I won't ever go that route.

Can anyone tell me how to check the hydraulic fluid level because before attaching the 3 point I cycled the hydraulic top link a few times and then left the ram fully extended and then checked the fluid level. It was at the bottom mark on the dip stick. I connected the 3 point up and raised it fully with the top link ram extended and the fluid is way over the top mark on dip stick. I have never touched the fluid since new and may have lost a cup full over the time due to a bust hose.

 

[ovrszd]

This is a complex subject and even the manufacturers vary on their suggestions.

I don't want my hydraulic fluid to be too low. Not worried much about it being over full.

I check my loader tractor with the bucket setting on the ground. Don't pay much attention to 3pt.

I check my non loader tractor however it's setting when I perform the check. Don't pay any attention to attachments or 3pt.

 

[K5lwq]

Richard, do you have the same problem on other cylinders you might control with your remotes?

Like Ptsg, I have not had a problem getting air in my top link yet. I have used mine on the Kioti and the Branson. Works equally well on both.

 

[bryn67]

This is a complex subject and even the manufacturers vary on their suggestions.

I don't want my hydraulic fluid to be too low. Not worried much about it being over full.

I check my loader tractor with the bucket setting on the ground. Don't pay much attention to 3pt.

I check my non loader tractor however it's setting when I perform the check. Don't pay any attention to attachments or 3pt.

Do you know of any problems if it’s over filled. I intend to try 1/2 litres at a time. I have to try something.

 

[npalen]

This is a long shot, but is it possible that air in the top link has anything to do with the fact that the 3PH floats during most operations?
Is the 3PH cylinder, in this case, acting like a vacuum pump?

 

[bryn67]

Do you know of any problems if it’s over filled. I intend to try 1/2 litres at a time. I have to try something.

Well I have just put about a litre in and no difference although at one point I did think that things were improving because the ram would stay halfway when the 3 point was lowered. I decided to have a go at bleeding from the hose connected to the blind side and was convinced that I was getting closer because I think a lot of air bubbles were seen. I retried cycling and dropped the 3 point down and it was as bad as ever, the top link went all the way back in. I recycled a few times and bled the system again about 3 times. No luck. My shed and myself are full of hydraulic fluid. This top link is a disaster and a waste of time and money.

 

[K5lwq]

Well I have just put about a litre in and no difference although at one point I did think that things were improving because the ram would stay halfway when the 3 point was lowered. I decided to have a go at bleeding from the hose connected to the blind side and was convinced that I was getting closer because I think a lot of air bubbles were seen. I retried cycling and dropped the 3 point down and it was as bad as ever, the top link went all the way back in. I recycled a few times and bled the system again about 3 times. No luck. My shed and myself are full of hydraulic fluid. This top link is a disaster and a waste of time and money.

This sounds like you tried bleeding the line similar to bleeding a brake line? You should not crack the lines.

When you cycled the cylinder to do the seal test, and the cylinder did not move, at that point you had all the air out of the system.

Please explain the steps you went through after that point.

 

[bryn67]

This sounds like you tried bleeding the line similar to bleeding a brake line? You should not crack the lines.

When you cycled the cylinder to do the seal test, and the cylinder did not move, at that point you had all the air out of the system.

Please explain the steps you went through after that point.

I cycled it again a few more times. Then connected up the top link to the 3 point. Lowered the 3 point onto the ground with the top link ram nearly fully extended. The top link ram only moved in about 1/4 of the way in so I thought I was winning but realised I had not lowered the rake onto the dolly and the tines were digging into the concrete so raised it and put the dolly under and lowered it again. This time it went about 1/2 way which was the best so far. I then decided to try bleeding so I removed the hose from the tractor going to the “ blind side” ( opposite to rod end ) Because this type of coupling caps both ends when removed I then released the pressure on the ram by pushing in the ball bearing on the hose and allowing the fluid to run into a container ( after the initial high pressure squirt) . There were signs of air . Refit hose and I cycled a few more times with the rake attached. Lowered again and ram this time was worse, about 3/4 in so bled again same as above. There was plenty of air so expected good results but after another few cycles lowered it slowly and the ram still went in 3/4. After being spayed with oil and all over the floor decided to leave it overnight with the rake down on a dolly and pressure left on the ram. I took a measurement of 90mm of ram out and will measure again in morning.

 

[K5lwq]

This is my opinion on what happened. When you connected the hose back after test a little air was introduced. Then when you cycled the cylinder with the rake connect, the weight of the rake caused system to pull more air each time you extended the cylinder. It appears to me that extending the cylinder with weight allows the system to pull air.

When you tried to bleed the hose by pushing in on the ball more air was introduced. The bubbling was from air going in, not out. Then more cycling with weight pulled more air.

Leaving the cylinder under pressure over night you will certainly see it goes in a good bit because of internal leakage of the remote valve. This is normal on most valves and some are worse than others.

Do you have a front loader? If so, have you had any issues with it?

Again, just my opinion, but I think something is going on with your remote valve. If you have a friend with a tractor that would not mind trying the top link I think you would see it perform differently.

My procedure using what you have would be cycle the cylinder before attaching the rake. Then don't touch the remote valve. Attach and lift the rake with 3pt and go to the area I was going to be working. I would then lower the rake to the ground by lower the 3pt and then adjust my top link. As long as the adjustments made on the top link were with the implement on the ground, I think it would work.

Sorry you are having troubles and hope you stay with it so we can all learn from this issue.

 

[bryn67]

This is my opinion on what happened. When you connected the hose back after test a little air was introduced. Then when you cycled the cylinder with the rake connect, the weight of the rake caused system to pull more air each time you extended the cylinder. It appears to me that extending the cylinder with weight allows the system to pull air.

When you tried to bleed the hose by pushing in on the ball more air was introduced. The bubbling was from air going in, not out. Then more cycling with weight pulled more air.

Leaving the cylinder under pressure over night you will certainly see it goes in a good bit because of internal leakage of the remote valve. This is normal on most valves and some are worse than others.

Do you have a front loader? If so, have you had any issues with it?

Again, just my opinion, but I think something is going on with your remote valve. If you have a friend with a tractor that would not mind trying the top link I think you would see it perform differently.

My procedure using what you have would be cycle the cylinder before attaching the rake. Then don't touch the remote valve. Attach and lift the rake with 3pt and go to the area I was going to be working. I would then lower the rake to the ground by lower the 3pt and then adjust my top link. As long as the adjustments made on the top link were with the implement on the ground, I think it would work.

Sorry you are having troubles and hope you stay with it so we can all learn from this issue.

Thanks for that. Will try again what you suggest tomorrow. Yes I have a front loader with 4 in 1 bucket and have not had any problem with it, if I was to make a comment it would be to say that I think the curl action when picking up a load of dirt is a bit weak but if I reverse slightly I don’t think it’s to bad.

 

[K5lwq]

Would not be cheap but would be interesting if you could run a set of hoses from your third function valve to the top link and see how it performs. That would definitely show a problem with rear remote circuit or not.

 

[ovrszd]

Richard, do you have the same problem on other cylinders you might control with your remotes?

Like Ptsg, I have not had a problem getting air in my top link yet. I have used mine on the Kioti and the Branson. Works equally well on both.

I don't use any other cylinders in a manner that would display that characteristic.

I use a batwing with individual control of each wing. Requires all three circuits on the tractor. But all three only have "extending" forces on the cylinders.

I use a tandem wheel disc with one circuit, "extending" forces only.

I use a clam shell scraper with two circuits, "extending" forces only.

I use a Land Pride rear blade on the Ford with three circuits ran off two tractor circuits. The top link being one of those. I've tried it on both of the tractor circuits with same result.

On the Kubota I've swapped the top link to each of the tractor's three circuits with the same result.

 

[ovrszd]

Do you know of any problems if it痴 over filled. I intend to try 1/2 litres at a time. I have to try something.

I try to not say "all" because someone will prove me wrong, so I'll say "most" tractors use the rear axle housing area for the hydraulic reservoir. In those cases I think the only problem might be leaky axle seals if grossly overfilled. The oil level at those seals being too high. Otherwise I don't think there would be a problem.

My Kubota holds 16 gallons. I can't imagine there being a problem if it's a gallon over full.

 

[ovrszd]

This is a long shot, but is it possible that air in the top link has anything to do with the fact that the 3PH floats during most operations?
Is the 3PH cylinder, in this case, acting like a vacuum pump?

I don't think so. The 3pt system is down stream from the rear remotes. And would only be able to introduce air or fluid upstream if the control valve was open.

 

[ovrszd]

It appears to me that extending the cylinder with weight allows the system to pull air.

In my efforts to resolve my issue, your statement above is my conclusion.

If it's valve failure, I have 5 bad valves on 2 tractors. I struggle to believe that.

 

[npalen]

"Quote Originally Posted by K5lwq View Post
It appears to me that extending the cylinder with weight allows the system to pull air."

Going back to the idea of whether this is why so many folks over the years have reported issues with their FEL bucket cylinders causing problems like being spongy when trying to back drag:

Letting the FEL bucket down to dump with a load is a similar scenario (only more severe perhaps) to extending the top link cylinder with the attachment weight "helping" the cylinder extend. Feathering the valve probably doesn't help all that much because the fluid exiting the rod end is less than the fluid required to refill the base end of the cylinder. So while limiting the speed of the cylinder when extending, the valve spool is also limiting the fluid entering the cylinder by the same amount. Does that make sense?

Edit: That probably speaks to having a restrictor in the rod end port only.

We just need to have Brian design a top link cylinder that extends to raise the load.

 

[npalen]

Double post.

 

[countrybumpkin]

And this is why they came up with regen valves for front end loaders.

I wonder if a simple set of fluid restrictors in the end of the hose at the coupler on the retract side would slow the flow down enough to help.