Dirt Moving Rear hydraulic remote .

[bryn67]

You need to disconnect the implement. Just let the cylinder hang loose and try that test again. Watch the video I posted a link to in post #48. It shows the test.

You should only try retracting the cylinder. If it extends while trying to retract, then it is bad seals.

Yes sorry about that , I see where I went wrong, will try it again tomorrow with implement removed . Thanks

 

[K5lwq]

Yes sorry about that , I see where I went wrong, will try it again tomorrow with implement removed . Thanks

Nothing to be sorry about. We all are working the issue. After you unhook the implement and no weight is on the cylinder, cycle it a few times before unhooking the return hose. Then do the test.

If that sucker retracts with the return hose disconnected, I would like to spend so time in your part of the world. Some extremely amazing things must exist there! :laughing:

 

[Beeenvenue]

Being able to use the float function feature allows a 3pt mower wheel end to move up-down much further than what the hitch on the mower allows for. If you happen to need to mow banks as in down to a pond or up a bank, when backing up to do this, having a top link in float mode allows the mower to follow the ground much better in those situations. That was just an example.

Float mode is irrelevant for you if you are using factory Kioti rear remotes. Kioti does not even offer rear remotes with the float feature any longer that I am aware of.

Good luck in getting what you need.

Thanks and great info. I will get one with dpcv then

But I am still confused - Forget hydraulics for a minute. If I use the standard manual top link it has no float, correct? So then if I do install a hydraulic top link with dpcvs I am not losing anything right?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks and great info. I will get one with dpcv then

But I am still confused - Forget hydraulics for a minute. If I use the standard manual top link it has no float, correct? So then if I do install a hydraulic top link with dpcvs I am not losing anything right?

Correct, you have lost nothing and gain the ability to adjust the top link with a touch of your finger tip.

This is probably the best (off the shelf) top link for your application.

 

[npalen]

I don't want to complicate the issue here but reading all of the above posts makes we wonder: Could a person simply disconnect the hose to the base end of the toplink cylinder (with the cylinder retracted) if float action was desired for a mowing job, for example?

Then letting the cylinder extend using the SCV with the 3PH raised would create a vacuum in the cylinder base. Might have to carefully loosen the disconnected hose tip temporarily to let some air in. Would need to retract the cylinder then prior to raising the 3PH during field operation.

I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around this scenario both with and without DPOC so would be interested to hear others comments.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I don't want to complicate the issue here but reading all of the above posts makes we wonder: Could a person simply disconnect the hose to the base end of the toplink cylinder (with the cylinder retracted) if float action was desired for a mowing job, for example?

Then letting the cylinder extend using the SCV with the 3PH raised would create a vacuum in the cylinder base. Might have to carefully loosen the disconnected hose tip temporarily to let some air in. Would need to retract the cylinder then prior to raising the 3PH during field operation.

I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around this scenario both with and without DPOC so would be interested to hear others comments.

No need to disconnect any of the hoses. Simply have the implement raised with the top link fully retracted, turn off the engine, let the top link extend. Now you have float for the top link and immediate use if-when needed. The vacuum pulled is not strong enough to require air to be let into the cylinder. So leave the hoses alone.

With a DPOCV, this can not be done in a timely way.

 

[npalen]

Would it make any difference whether the exit of the return line was above or below reservoir fluid level?

Edit: Guess it wouldn't as any fluid trying to enter the base of the cylinder would have to come via the pump line when letting the cylinder extend with the engine off.

This begs the question of whether the same thing could be accomplished with a FEL to get float without a float spool.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Would it make any difference whether the exit of the return line was above or below reservoir fluid level?

Edit: Guess it wouldn't as any fluid trying to enter the base of the cylinder would have to come via the pump line when letting the cylinder extend with the engine off.

This begs the question of whether the same thing could be accomplished with a FEL to get float without a float spool.

I don't know why not. :confused3: But any of this would be VERY inconvenient if it had to be done at short intervals IMO.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Would it make any difference whether the exit of the return line was above or below reservoir fluid level?

Edit: Guess it wouldn't as any fluid trying to enter the base of the cylinder would have to come via the pump line when letting the cylinder extend with the engine off.

This begs the question of whether the same thing could be accomplished with a FEL to get float without a float spool.

I don't know why not. :confused3: But any of this would be VERY inconvenient if it had to be done at short intervals IMO.

 

[npalen]

Brian, I'm thinking in the case of 3PH mower, for example, that done once you could run all day or until you no longer wanted float. I do think that in this case, the hose to the cylinder base would need to remain disconnected, however.

I've never tried it so don't know. Would be interesting to try.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian, I'm thinking in the case of 3PH mower, for example, that done once you could run all day or until you no longer wanted float. I do think that in this case, the hose to the cylinder base would need to remain disconnected, however.

I've never tried it so don't know. Would be interesting to try.

Why disconnect, just don't actuate the lever to ever put fluid in the base end.

 

[ptsg]

Why disconnect, just don't actuate the lever to ever put fluid in the base end.

I use the "makeshift float" technique on my backhoe quite often. When I'm grading, I just let the boom go down fast to purposefully introducing air into the system, then it just moves freely and contours the ground as I bring the stick towards my direction.

 

[npalen]

Why disconnect, just don't actuate the lever to ever put fluid in the base end.

You're right, I was confusing the toplink cylinder with the 3PH for raising the attachment. My bad.

Edit: I do use the toplink cylinder quite often when grading with my box blade. It has gauge wheels on the back so using the toplink works great to "feather" the box blade up to gradually dump a load of dirt.
My Kubota is older and doesn't have really fine control of the 3PH. Seems like its all or none when trying to slightly raise the 3PH.

 

[npalen]

I use the "makeshift float" technique on my backhoe quite often. When I'm grading, I just let the boom go down fast to purposefully introducing air into the system, then it just moves freely and contours the ground as I bring the stick towards my direction.

Interesting! Good to know that is does work.

 

[bryn67]

I have tried that many ways I’m getting mixed up. I do know that I haven’t tried your last suggestion, having one plugged in and one unplugged with the engine running and operating the hydraulics. I’m not sure what is meant by the”blind side.” Will have go when finished making a video of both lines in and both unplugged.

To K51wq I have now carried out the test as described, I cycled it 10 times with no load. Left the ram 1/2 in/out. Disconnected hose from tractor end at ram. ( opposite end to rod ) . Started tractor and operated valve to bring the ram in. Ram does NOT move in any direction.

 

[K5lwq]

To K51wq I have now carried out the test as described, I cycled it 10 times with no load. Left the ram 1/2 in/out. Disconnected hose from tractor end at ram. ( opposite end to rod ) . Started tractor and operated valve to bring the ram in. Ram does NOT move in any direction.

Perfect! That means your cylinder is fine. The problem is now going to be with the valve or plumbing. Are you using factory remotes or did you add the remote valve?

 

[bryn67]

Perfect! That means your cylinder is fine. The problem is now going to be with the valve or plumbing. Are you using factory remotes or did you add the remote valve?

They are factory remotes. Never used them before. Tractor is about 8 years old.

 

[K5lwq]

Are you seeing any evidence of hydraulic fluid leaks around the valve or any of the plumbing? Word of caution! Do not use your hand to feel for a leak. Under pressure it can cut right through your skin.

We are very certain air is being introduced somehow to the system.

We know you have tried metering the valve manually to keep air out with no success.

We know the cylinder seals are good. Also can be reasonable certain the air is out at the moment.

Next step I would take, if no external leaks could be found, would be try the blade again. It is possible that you were never able to get all the air out for reasons unknown and it will perform better now. Try making small adjustments at a time or keep the movement of the rod slow as possible. If air returns, think about what you were doing that could cause air getting in.

Keep us informed on how it goes and what you find! Good luck!

 

[bryn67]

Are you seeing any evidence of hydraulic fluid leaks around the valve or any of the plumbing? Word of caution! Do not use your hand to feel for a leak. Under pressure it can cut right through your skin.

We are very certain air is being introduced somehow to the system.

We know you have tried metering the valve manually to keep air out with no success.

We know the cylinder seals are good. Also can be reasonable certain the air is out at the moment.

Next step I would take, if no external leaks could be found, would be try the blade again. It is possible that you were never able to get all the air out for reasons unknown and it will perform better now. Try making small adjustments at a time or keep the movement of the rod slow as possible. If air returns, think about what you were doing that could cause air getting in.

Keep us informed on how it goes and what you find! Good luck!

Ok thanks. I know that there are no hydraulic leaks anyway. I will couple up the rake and just allow the three point down and see what happens. This will be tomorrow.

 

[ovrszd]

It's very frustrating. I went thru it a few years ago. I never found a solution. I've had my hydraulic top link for 7 years I think. It operates today exactly like it did 7 years ago. Acts exactly like yours.

If I want precision control I extend/retract a couple times and then it's solid for awhile with short movements. Then for no apparent reason the air is back. Both of my tractors act the same way.

I tried switching rear remotes. 3 on the Kubota, 2 on the Ford. No difference.

There are several members here with the same problem. Most, like me, just deal with it. Some give up and go back to a mechanical top link. I won't ever go that route.