Question about hydraulics performance on different excavators.

[rScotty]

I think if you ran an excavator with joystick controls for an hour you’d quickly become disappointed with the M59 hydraulic. It wasn’t so much the precision of the backhoe that was in question as much as operator comfort and the speed of the hydraulics. I could take at least 2 scoops probably 3 on my excavator to every one the M59 will do. And the M59 front loader was less disappointing than the backhoe but the cable drive loader control wasn’t as good as it could have been. I know a backhoe will never equal a skid loader and mini x no matter how good it is but Kubota left room for improvement on that so called industrial machine. That’s an excellent tool when compared to a tractor backhoe, and I would still recommend that to any homeowner but for construction use it’s lacking.

You may be right. In fact I'm sure you are for most. It's that lots of scoops/min. and fast operation don't count in my work. If precise means it takes longer to do it that's just fine. Fast might count for more if I used the backhoe for digging, but I rarely use it for digging anyway.
It's local landscaping. And around here, landscaping means placing rocks.

What I like with the M59 is that it doesn't have any slop in the pivots or flex in the system. It's stable & doesn't rock back and forth like an ex does, and has controls sensitive to small movements. I can pick up a multi-hundred pound rock, place it right where I want it, confidently position one tooth against the edge, and use all that power to smoothly and slowly slide it a few inches to the side until it drops into place.

The industrial machines I've used are more set up for large faster movements - where they shine as you say. But they don't seem to do as well slowly easing the bucket a one inch under full power at full extension.

What I do like about min ex is the full rotation and the nice cab. When things settle down and it isn't a seller's market I'll be looking into them more seriously.
Probably look first to see what Cat has to offer. What do you think of their machines?
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

You may be right. In fact I'm sure you are for most. It's that lots of scoops/min. and fast operation don't count in my work. If precise means it takes longer to do it that's just fine. Fast might count for more if I used the backhoe for digging, but I rarely use it for digging anyway.
It's local landscaping. And around here, landscaping means placing rocks.

What I like with the M59 is that it doesn't have any slop in the pivots or flex in the system. It's stable & doesn't rock back and forth like an ex does, and has controls sensitive to small movements. I can pick up a multi-hundred pound rock, place it right where I want it, confidently position one tooth against the edge, and use all that power to smoothly and slowly slide it a few inches to the side until it drops into place.

The industrial machines I've used are more set up for large faster movements - where they shine as you say. But they don't seem to do as well slowly easing the bucket a one inch under full power at full extension.

What I do like about min ex is the full rotation and the nice cab. When things settle down and it isn't a seller's market I'll be looking into them more seriously.
Probably look first to see what Cat has to offer. What do you think of their machines?
rScotty

My mini x is very precise if you want it to be. It’s every bit as precise if not a little better than the M59. Using the blade for a stabilizer mostly eliminates the rocking problem. I’ve never ran a Cat mini. The price was enough to decide for me. I’ve been very happy with my Kubota mini and I wouldn’t hesitate at all to buy a Deere mini either.

 

[rScotty]

They are probably adding the sum of pump flows that will never operate at the same time to full capacity

IE: let's say the same engine is powering both a 15gmp pump for the drive motors, and a 20gpm pump for the boom, and a 10gpm pump for an auxiliary.

So while the machine does have 45gpm capacity, it can never use that much

Drive the machine while using the boom/bucket one or both will reduce in speed

I agree, and wonder if that's an example of how advertising can mislead us with specifications? Or is it just obvious to everyone but me?

Although if it is a closed hydraulic system I suppose it could have enough accumulators to regeneratively store pressure during the moments when the operator isn't using full flow. Then it really could store enough extra to have 45gpm flow out of a 40 HP engine - at least for as long as the accumulator has pressure.
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

I went from running Deere 310’s in the 90’s, to owning a 580L in 2000, then m59, then m62, and now the 040. No backhoe compares to the 040 speed and smoothness. Of coarse the power is no where near the 310/580..

I started out with a tractor backhoe, it worked pretty good at the time but it became apparent I needed something stronger. I sold it and bought a Deere 310. The Deere 310 gained the strength I wanted but the versatility sucked. I didn’t have the ability to use pallet forks or a grapple both of which I needed, and the lack of a quick change rear bucket or hydraulic thumb wasn’t great either. So I sold that and got the M59. The M59 did pretty good at solving the versatility problem but the backhoe didn’t perform as well as I’d like. It was enough to work but I wasn’t as happy as I could be. Then I bought the mini x while I still had the M59. It became immediately apparent that I would never use the M59 hoe again so I’d be better off to just sell it and buy a CTL so that’s what I did. Then I bought another Deere 410 while I still have the mini and skid steer. It’s not seen as much use as I thought it would. I’ll probably sell it and reinvest the funds into either a dozer or larger trackhoe.

 

[4570Man]

I agree, and wonder if that's an example of how advertising can mislead us with specifications? Or is it just obvious to everyone but me?

Although if it is a closed hydraulic system I suppose it could have enough accumulators to regeneratively store pressure during the moments when the operator isn't using full flow. Then it really could store enough extra to have 45gpm flow out of a 40 HP engine - at least for as long as the accumulator has pressure.
rScotty

The accumulator on the 40 is only 8 oz or so in volume. I was under the impression it was more like a shock absorber vs a storage device.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

You may be right. In fact I'm sure you are for most. It's that lots of scoops/min. and fast operation don't count in my work. If precise means it takes longer to do it that's just fine. Fast might count for more if I used the backhoe for digging, but I rarely use it for digging anyway.
It's local landscaping. And around here, landscaping means placing rocks.

What I like with the M59 is that it doesn't have any slop in the pivots or flex in the system. It's stable & doesn't rock back and forth like an ex does, and has controls sensitive to small movements. I can pick up a multi-hundred pound rock, place it right where I want it, confidently position one tooth against the edge, and use all that power to smoothly and slowly slide it a few inches to the side until it drops into place.

The industrial machines I've used are more set up for large faster movements - where they shine as you say. But they don't seem to do as well slowly easing the bucket a one inch under full power at full extension.

What I do like about min ex is the full rotation and the nice cab. When things settle down and it isn't a seller's market I'll be looking into them more seriously.
Probably look first to see what Cat has to offer. What do you think of their machines?
rScotty

One thing that pushed me at the the time to go mini ex was kubotas lack of cab for the m62. I was hesitant at first to get away from the backhoe platform, mainly because of handling of gravel, but its worked out by fabing a 5’ gravel bucket. If kubota was to put a nice designed cab on the m62 I would probably het rid of my svl75 to get one, but I doubt at this point i would give the mini ex up. Downside to mini ex is travel speed and ability to move large amounts of gravel fast. Upside to mini is digging speed and spoil placement..and cab.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

You may be right. In fact I'm sure you are for most. It's that lots of scoops/min. and fast operation don't count in my work. If precise means it takes longer to do it that's just fine. Fast might count for more if I used the backhoe for digging, but I rarely use it for digging anyway.
It's local landscaping. And around here, landscaping means placing rocks.

What I like with the M59 is that it doesn't have any slop in the pivots or flex in the system. It's stable & doesn't rock back and forth like an ex does, and has controls sensitive to small movements. I can pick up a multi-hundred pound rock, place it right where I want it, confidently position one tooth against the edge, and use all that power to smoothly and slowly slide it a few inches to the side until it drops into place.

The industrial machines I've used are more set up for large faster movements - where they shine as you say. But they don't seem to do as well slowly easing the bucket a one inch under full power at full extension.

What I do like about min ex is the full rotation and the nice cab. When things settle down and it isn't a seller's market I'll be looking into them more seriously.
Probably look first to see what Cat has to offer. What do you think of their machines?
rScotty

I glanced at a cat 505. Its like the Takeuchi in that it has longer reach and more dig depth in an equal size weight as kubota. Kubota seems to be conservative with performance. Maybe they design them to not get wore out with the extra leverage vs amount of steel to stay in a weight range.
This is superficial, but the first thing I noticed about the cat was cheap hard plastic joysticks. Like something that comes with a cheap gambling console. Other than that it was nice. I didnt bother pricing it.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

I started out with a tractor backhoe, it worked pretty good at the time but it became apparent I needed something stronger. I sold it and bought a Deere 310. The Deere 310 gained the strength I wanted but the versatility sucked. I didn’t have the ability to use pallet forks or a grapple both of which I needed, and the lack of a quick change rear bucket or hydraulic thumb wasn’t great either. So I sold that and got the M59. The M59 did pretty good at solving the versatility problem but the backhoe didn’t perform as well as I’d like. It was enough to work but I wasn’t as happy as I could be. Then I bought the mini x while I still had the M59. It became immediately apparent that I would never use the M59 hoe again so I’d be better off to just sell it and buy a CTL so that’s what I did. Then I bought another Deere 410 while I still have the mini and skid steer. It’s not seen as much use as I thought it would. I’ll probably sell it and reinvest the funds into either a dozer or larger trackhoe.

I bought the svl75 to replace the loss of the m62’s front loader here on the farm. Its a way more capable thing as far as grading but every time I go to do something simple like move something with forks or take it to my wife’s flower garden for her to fill bucket up or dump dirt it rips up the yard and gravel. But its supposed to, its a tracked machine.
Great on job sites, bad for yard maintenance.

 

[4570Man]

I bought the svl75 to replace the loss of the m62’s front loader here on the farm. Its a way more capable thing as far as grading but every time I go to do something simple like move something with forks or take it to my wife’s flower garden for her to fill bucket up or dump dirt it rips up the yard and gravel. But its supposed to, its a tracked machine.
Great on job sites, bad for yard maintenance.

I do occasionally miss my M59s low impact on the ground. That’s pretty much the only thing I miss about it. I’ve solved a lot of that problem with my mini x. It’s a lot better on grass than the skid steer is since it can pretty much drive straight in and straight out where the skid steer requires a lot more moving to do anything.

 

[Jchonline]

I bought the svl75 to replace the loss of the m62’s front loader here on the farm. Its a way more capable thing as far as grading but every time I go to do something simple like move something with forks or take it to my wife’s flower garden for her to fill bucket up or dump dirt it rips up the yard and gravel. But its supposed to, its a tracked machine.
Great on job sites, bad for yard maintenance.

Uh oh. Sounds like you need a BX2580 for yard maintenance now!